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Red Sox Sign Kenley Jansen (2 years, 32 million)
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Post by scottysmalls on Dec 7, 2022 11:09:14 GMT -5
Hmm, I think you might be right.
I think they looked at that Taijuan Walker deal and exited the starting pitching market like
So Kenley gets the money that was slotted on Senga or Eovaldi who will be getting 7 years/160 million each
Yeah, the more I think about it, the more it seems like a way to quit the SP market and sign X and get one more decent bat. You can have Sale, Pivetta, Paxton, Whitlock, Bello, and Houck start without hurting the pen. Spend $0 on starters, and bolster the lineup. Or at least it gives them the option if every starter they like goes crazy. Like if they like Houck starting better than the 7th guy on the market, and they think the rest are going to get crazy deals or whatever it does make sense in that respect.
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Dec 7, 2022 11:09:42 GMT -5
He's literally the last closer on the market. This isn't a "what the fuck". Look around free agency at what other players are getting It is though. They literally have lots of other holes and decided to spend on the bullpen. I get that you will defend Bloom on every move he makes, but there's more pressing needs. Houck would have been fine there. They might have X amount left to play with but by using 25 million or so of that money in the pen it leaves them a limited amount to get another starter, DH, RF, SS/2B (depending on Boegarts). So its not really great that they're choosing to spend this amount on the pen. Jansen is fine. The construction is not. I'd rather Senga Our bullpen was absolute trash last year. Now we have great depth, and more importantly, set roles
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Post by jdb on Dec 7, 2022 11:10:33 GMT -5
I like it. He’s anchor back there and with the additions of Rodriquez and Martin I doubt we blow 28 saves again. Take 1/3 of those off and we’re a playoff team last year. Also it lets us handle Barnes workload and not run him into the ground. I doubt this is our big offseason move.
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Post by notstarboard on Dec 7, 2022 11:11:17 GMT -5
Hmm, I think you might be right.
I think they looked at that Taijuan Walker deal and exited the starting pitching market like
So Kenley gets the money that was slotted on Senga or Eovaldi who will be getting 7 years/160 million each
Yeah, the more I think about it, the more it seems like a way to quit the SP market and sign X and get one more decent bat. You can have Sale, Pivetta, Paxton, Whitlock, Bello, and Houck start without hurting the pen. Spend $0 on starters, and bolster the lineup. If they feel Houck has what it takes to start, I could get behind this. Jansen wouldn't have been the guy I would have picked to sign, but the concept of investing in the bullpen as a way of putting another decent arm in the rotation makes sense to me.
I'm still not sure what I think about Houck's ability to start. He had some fabulous outings as a starter, like that 5-inning perfect game he had going, but other times he just doesn't have it and that puts immense strain on the bullpen to come in early and bail him out.
Someone noted that they told Houck to at least prepare as a starter this offseason. I don't think you can read much into that on its own since he would be SP depth regardless and it takes time to get stretched out, but wouldn't it be interesting if this was actually planned. You guys have me intrigued.
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Post by kwodes on Dec 7, 2022 11:12:18 GMT -5
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Post by curtisw on Dec 7, 2022 11:13:54 GMT -5
He is 35. The FIP last year was pretty good, not at all far off from his FIPs of the last few years. He’s not what he was 4-5 years ago obviously, but the WHIPs have also been notably good the last couple seasons. I think he has some gas in the tank from what I’m looking at but I am only able to glance casually because I’m on lunch break.
If he can bring down the home run rate he might look more like the 2021 version which would be amazing for our bullpen. But even if he doesn’t do that, I think this move gives us a good, deep bullpen. Now we need to give it some purpose by making moves for a few position players, namely a shortstop and an outfielder as we all know. Things are definitely getting more interesting imo. This is not a move you make if you don’t have some things lined up, as I said.
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Post by bosoxnation on Dec 7, 2022 11:14:17 GMT -5
It’s a good signing. RS Nation is just unhappy as a fan base so every signing will get bashed.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Dec 7, 2022 11:16:32 GMT -5
It is though. They literally have lots of other holes and decided to spend on the bullpen. I get that you will defend Bloom on every move he makes, but there's more pressing needs. Houck would have been fine there. They might have X amount left to play with but by using 25 million or so of that money in the pen it leaves them a limited amount to get another starter, DH, RF, SS/2B (depending on Boegarts). So its not really great that they're choosing to spend this amount on the pen. Jansen is fine. The construction is not. I'd rather Senga Our bullpen was absolute trash last year. Now we have great depth, and more importantly, set roles Not denying that. But it gets very tough if they bring Xander back. Even if you're going on the assumption, they spend 70-80 million you're still leaving like 25 million for RF DH and another starter. It gets very tight.
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Post by GyIantosca on Dec 7, 2022 11:16:54 GMT -5
Let’s see the final piece we don’t know who gets dealt they have a lot of work to do. I hope.
How about those MFY’S getting buried on that deal best case scenario.
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Post by manfred on Dec 7, 2022 11:19:31 GMT -5
Ultimately, this is a clear case of a signing that can’t be judged until opening day. If they fill out the lineup etc, great. If this is the big one, nightmare. Pretty huge range of possibilities. But there are a number of scenarios where it fits. Onward.
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Post by Guidas on Dec 7, 2022 11:20:41 GMT -5
Uh oh, a Proven Closer™. How will the board react!?!
Personally, I like the move, though it's kind of meh. Also seems like a gross overpay, and if they want to do that, I'd rather that happen on a position player. But the pen was a mess, so if these new arms hold together, they should be better in the late innings. Still much to do but the pen seems, on paper, shored up.
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Post by tjb21 on Dec 7, 2022 11:21:24 GMT -5
The biggest part of this to me is shifting everyone down a slot. Barnes won’t close, but if he can keep his improvement from the end of the year, he could go back to being a good 8th inning guy. That frees Martin to be a jack-of-all-trades. That frees Whitlock to start. And in freeing Whitlock to start, it means that they really just need to sign one starter, not the two that had been tossed around. Hell, maybe even Houck gets freed up to start. Shifting everyone down the bullpen depth chart is certainly a major potential plus of this signing. *Apologies for sidetracking the Jansen conversation* Houck likely won't be a starter again with the Red Sox. That ship has (seemingly) sailed. Bullpen or traded. Whitlock was already freed to start, so this signing also didn't factor into that decision.
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Post by notstarboard on Dec 7, 2022 11:22:45 GMT -5
Our bullpen was absolute trash last year. Now we have great depth, and more importantly, set roles Not denying that. But it gets very tough if they bring Xander back. Even if you're going on the assumption, they spend 70-80 million you're still leaving like 25 million for RF DH and another starter. It gets very tight. I think step one is not signing a DH, since there aren't any left on the market good enough to make sense over a Hosmer & Refsnyder/Arroyo platoon. Not having a dedicated DH also makes the roster a lot more flexible, which is a plus. You can afford to roster that light-hitting guy who can absolutely fly around the basepaths, for example.
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Post by bloomstaxonomy on Dec 7, 2022 11:26:38 GMT -5
We going over the threshold?
Also, call me crazy, but I think there’s a non-zero chance that Sale is traded. We’ll probably have to kick in a decent chunk of money and he’d have to waive his 10/5 rights, but someone might be amenable to taking on his contract given the contracts that are being agreed to already this off-season. Would free up some cash for the 2023/2024 payroll.
When I say non-zero, I mean <5% chance. But it’s nice to think about.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Dec 7, 2022 11:27:18 GMT -5
Not denying that. But it gets very tough if they bring Xander back. Even if you're going on the assumption, they spend 70-80 million you're still leaving like 25 million for RF DH and another starter. It gets very tight. I think step one is not signing a DH, since there aren't any left on the market good enough to make sense over a Hosmer & Refsnyder/Arroyo platoon. Not having a dedicated DH also makes the roster a lot more flexible, which is a plus. You can afford to roster that light-hitting guy who can absolutely fly around the basepaths, for example. Sure, but then you're hoping Casas produces accordingly and puts more pressure on Devers and (hopefully) Xander to produce. Not going to matter who is closing if no one hits. If they had a better lineup then using the DH spot for multiple people would be an excellent idea. I don't trust anyone in the lineup other than Devers and maybe Story, health permitting. Thats a problem.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2022 11:27:59 GMT -5
I like the signing the only thing scares me he has one of the slowest tempos in the game 3rd on the list of relief pitchers. I hope he can adjust. Bases Empty – 19.2 seconds (4th slowest) Runners On – 24.6 seconds (3rd slowest) Time to Cut – 4.4 seconds
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Post by Legion of Bloom on Dec 7, 2022 11:31:53 GMT -5
I wonder who he’s teammates with on the Netherlands WBC team
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TearsIn04
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Post by TearsIn04 on Dec 7, 2022 11:38:48 GMT -5
Adding Chafin to go along with Martin would have represented a significant BP upgrade. And adding Chafin at this point would have been less expensive than Jansen. This is a bit of a head scratcher, considering all the other needs this team has.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Dec 7, 2022 11:39:20 GMT -5
So are we going over the LT again? This is way more money than I expected them to spend on the bullpen.
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Post by dirtywaterinla on Dec 7, 2022 11:39:42 GMT -5
Color me crazy, but I think this move makes Houck a trade piece.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Dec 7, 2022 11:41:12 GMT -5
So are we going over the LT again? This is way more money than I expected them to spend on the bullpen. I mean they still got like $59 mill to spend or something, don’t they? That’s kind of a lot of money
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Dec 7, 2022 11:43:23 GMT -5
Color me crazy, but I think this move makes Houck a trade piece. So this would make sense and would justify spending on Martin and Jansen if you're flipping him for a bat or SP.
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Post by jmei on Dec 7, 2022 11:45:07 GMT -5
Feels like the logic is that they couldn’t get anyone else to take their money so might as well overpay for a short-term deal. That’s… not great.
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Post by manfred on Dec 7, 2022 11:45:13 GMT -5
So are we going over the LT again? This is way more money than I expected them to spend on the bullpen. I mean they still got like $59 mill to spend or something, don’t they? That’s kind of a lot of money Is it? If ~$30 goes to SS… bringing them basically even with last year’s lineup… they have $29 mill to go. That could get them Conforto likely with $10+ to spare which gets… I don’t know. Utility guy Y? It is a decent amount, but it is still a tight squeeze.
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Post by scottysmalls on Dec 7, 2022 11:45:54 GMT -5
So are we going over the LT again? This is way more money than I expected them to spend on the bullpen. I mean they still got like $59 mill to spend or something, don’t they? That’s kind of a lot of money $30M on short stop, $10m on outfield (maybe a Kiermaier type) or on a DH type (Turner/Drury), $15m on a starting pitcher Can fill out the roster pretty okay that way. Would be nice to mix in a trade for one other guy too, but I think that’s a solid team, if not an overwhelming wagon.
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