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Red Sox Sign Kenley Jansen (2 years, 32 million)
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Post by scottysmalls on Dec 7, 2022 11:47:52 GMT -5
Color me crazy, but I think this move makes Houck a trade piece. Agree, Houck as part of a trade for a Pablo Lopez sort of SP makes more sense now, or even in a trade for an OF he’s a little more expendable.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Dec 7, 2022 11:48:08 GMT -5
So are we going over the LT again? This is way more money than I expected them to spend on the bullpen. I mean they still got like $59 mill to spend or something, don’t they? That’s kind of a lot of money If they sign Bogaerts or Correa it’s not a lot of money. They don’t have a RF, DH, or SP signing yet, that leaves 59M and you just spent 16M on a middle tier closer, so I don’t think 59M is filling those 3 spots. For RF I’m certainly thinking acquisition now. Kepler maybe.
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Dec 7, 2022 11:48:49 GMT -5
I mean they still got like $59 mill to spend or something, don’t they? That’s kind of a lot of money $30M on short stop, $10m on outfield (maybe a Kiermaier type) or on a DH type (Turner/Drury), $15m on a starting pitcher Can fill out the roster pretty okay that way. Would be nice to mix in a trade for one other guy too, but I think that’s a solid team, if not an overwhelming wagon. If we take Bloom at his word they wanted to at 7 guys this offseason. We're at 3 with the bullpen arms. Still need a SS, OF, SP and perhaps a DH that can perhaps play somewhere in the field for a little flexibility. Hard to see where they add all 4 of that through FA which isn't surprising. Bloom going to need to start working the phones for a trade at some point is my guess.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Dec 7, 2022 11:49:32 GMT -5
I mean they still got like $59 mill to spend or something, don’t they? That’s kind of a lot of money $30M on short stop, $10m on outfield (maybe a Kiermaier type) or on a DH type (Turner/Drury), $15m on a starting pitcher Can fill out the roster pretty okay that way. Would be nice to mix in a trade for one other guy too, but I think that’s a solid team, if not an overwhelming wagon. Ehh, the way the market is going 15 million for a starter is a pipe dream. If they sign Eovaldi back and Xander, they're pretty much capped out. Which means they can't afford an outfielder at 10 million. They desperately needed an impact bat last year and would still need that going into the season. The only way they can get that additional bat now is by trade.
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Post by scottysmalls on Dec 7, 2022 11:50:37 GMT -5
$30M on short stop, $10m on outfield (maybe a Kiermaier type) or on a DH type (Turner/Drury), $15m on a starting pitcher Can fill out the roster pretty okay that way. Would be nice to mix in a trade for one other guy too, but I think that’s a solid team, if not an overwhelming wagon. Ehh, the way the market is going 15 million for a starter is a pipe dream. If they sign Eovaldi back and Xander, they're pretty much capped out. Which means they can't afford an outfielder at 10 million. They desperately needed an impact bat last year and would still need that going into the season. The only way they can get that additional bat now is by trade. I mean, not really though. Taillon and Walker got barely over that, Quintana and Anderson got less. Those guys are all in the Eovaldi range and three of them didn’t have QOs. Edit: Add Heaney in there too.
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Post by notstarboard on Dec 7, 2022 11:50:50 GMT -5
I think step one is not signing a DH, since there aren't any left on the market good enough to make sense over a Hosmer & Refsnyder/Arroyo platoon. Not having a dedicated DH also makes the roster a lot more flexible, which is a plus. You can afford to roster that light-hitting guy who can absolutely fly around the basepaths, for example. Sure, but then you're hoping Casas produces accordingly and puts more pressure on Devers and (hopefully) Xander to produce. Not going to matter who is closing if no one hits. If they had a better lineup then using the DH spot for multiple people would be an excellent idea. I don't trust anyone in the lineup other than Devers and maybe Story, health permitting. Thats a problem. Not necessarily. It's only an issue if Casas is bad enough that he has to go down to AAA, because then Hosmer is playing 1B every day and a DH would be occupied full time by a RHH bench bat. Then you have to hope someone like Enmanuel Valdez is looking good at AAA and can come up for a cup 'o DH coffee.
If they lock up an elite SS and find a solid RF solution, I think the lineup will be just fine, and I feel strongly that those are the positions to add at, not full-time DH. Plenty of time left.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2022 11:51:18 GMT -5
So are we going over the LT again? This is way more money than I expected them to spend on the bullpen. I mean they still got like $59 mill to spend or something, don’t they? That’s kind of a lot of money At this point though you figure they probably are trading for their OF/DH/catcher. Get someone solid who's cost controlled 16 mil might be a tad pricey for Jansen, but we also had Hansel Robles closing games for us last year - so cash that check baby
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Post by notstarboard on Dec 7, 2022 11:55:55 GMT -5
I mean they still got like $59 mill to spend or something, don’t they? That’s kind of a lot of money If they sign Bogaerts or Correa it’s not a lot of money. They don’t have a RF, DH, or SP signing yet, that leaves 59M and you just spent 16M on a middle tier closer, so I don’t think 59M is filling those 3 spots. For RF I’m certainly thinking acquisition now. Kepler maybe. I've made this point already in this thread, but I don't think signing a DH makes sense. Like, look around the FA pool. Which guy is going to be a good value add for this team? A platoon of Hosmer & Refsnyder/Arroyo can probably put up numbers in the 110 wRC+ range. What guy is going to be enough better than that to justify spending on instead of SP, SS, or OF? If you know of a good target I'm actually curious, so please let me know. I see nobody. ~$27-30 million SS, ~$20 million SP, ~$10 million OF (could be allocated to arb salary for a guy we trade for, like Reynolds).
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Post by xdmo on Dec 7, 2022 11:58:57 GMT -5
Would have been better if it was a one year deal.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Dec 7, 2022 11:59:02 GMT -5
If they sign Bogaerts or Correa it’s not a lot of money. They don’t have a RF, DH, or SP signing yet, that leaves 59M and you just spent 16M on a middle tier closer, so I don’t think 59M is filling those 3 spots. For RF I’m certainly thinking acquisition now. Kepler maybe. I've made this point already in this thread, but I don't think signing a DH makes sense. Like, look around the FA pool. Which guy is going to be a good value add for this team? A platoon of Hosmer & Refsnyder/Arroyo can probably put up numbers in the 110 wRC+ range. What guy is going to be enough better than that to justify spending on instead of SP, SS, or OF? If you know of a good target I'm actually curious, so please let me know. I see nobody. ~$27-30 million SS, ~$20 million SP, ~$10 million OF (could be allocated to arb salary for a guy we trade for, like Reynolds). I don’t disagree with that, but I do think Brantley in particular will be cheap given his health concerns. I guess I’m just in year 2 of not really seeing the vision/assuming there has to be more at play (but last year there wasn’t). I could also easily see them not signing Bogaerts or Correa, which would open up the checkbook considerably, but with no great options to spend it on.
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Post by greenmonster on Dec 7, 2022 12:05:20 GMT -5
Color me crazy, but I think this move makes Houck a trade piece. This is exactly what I am thinking. I think Khanle was the preferred move and Jansen is the fall back. Now that they have increased the bullpen depth I think Houck or Schrieber (hopefully not) will be included in a trade package for someone like Reynolds.
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Post by xdmo on Dec 7, 2022 12:07:23 GMT -5
Color me crazy, but I think this move makes Houck a trade piece. This is exactly what I am thinking. I think Khanle was the preferred move and Jansen is the fall back. Now that they have increased the bullpen depth I think Houck or Schrieber (hopefully not) will be included in a trade package for someone like Reynolds. Yeah this signing makes not getting Kahnle that much worse. Pay Kahnle 13 million a year for 2 years. Still better than Jansen's contract.
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Post by dirtywaterinla on Dec 7, 2022 12:09:44 GMT -5
This is exactly what I am thinking. I think Khanle was the preferred move and Jansen is the fall back. Now that they have increased the bullpen depth I think Houck or Schrieber (hopefully not) will be included in a trade package for someone like Reynolds. Yeah this signing makes not getting Kahnle that much worse. Pay Kahnle 13 million a year for 2 years. Still better than Jansen's contract. At least Jansen has leadership qualities compared to Kahnle who’s apparently an insufferable dirtbag in the clubhouse.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Dec 7, 2022 12:10:06 GMT -5
as mentioned earlier in here, there is a Kenley/Xander connection
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Dec 7, 2022 12:11:20 GMT -5
I don’t know why people are so certain the Sox will not go over the tax limit this year. They are fully capable of weighing the advantages and disadvantages of going over the cap in 2023 and then deciding to go over.
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Post by oldfaithful2019 on Dec 7, 2022 12:17:28 GMT -5
I am pleased with this signing. Jansen is still a 9th inning force. the team made a huge investment in the bullpen which was needed. Still to be determined is the 2nd lefty, but I am thinking that Taylor gets the first crack at that.
As far as the impact on Houk, the Pirates are looking for starters so maybe he becomes a piece in a Reynolds deal that does not include Bednar. Maybe.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Dec 7, 2022 12:23:13 GMT -5
Who remembers Barry Bonds taking a called third strike right down the middle the first time he faced Okajima?
It's 100% true that (at least some) pitchers are decidedly more effective when hitters are unfamiliar with them.
No one's going to alter his projection, but I think he projects even better than you'd think given the change of leagues. It may well swallow up any apparent overpay.
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Post by incandenza on Dec 7, 2022 12:37:01 GMT -5
Well obviously I'm with the haters on this one. I think the best lipstick you can put on this pig is the theory some have mentioned that this is a backdoor way of increasing starter depth by letting both Houck and Whitlock start.
The problem is that that still depends on Jansen actually being good. That's like a 50/50 proposition. And if this is the move, I'd rather have done it with Taylor Rogers, among others.
As for the theory that this makes Houck expendable in a trade... well, there goes the starter depth after all, and they're probably back to needing to add another one.
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Post by manfred on Dec 7, 2022 12:39:53 GMT -5
Well obviously I'm with the haters on this one. I think the best lipstick you can put on this pig is the theory some have mentioned that this is a backdoor way of increasing starter depth by letting both Houck and Whitlock start.
The problem is that that still depends on Jansen actually being good. That's like a 50/50 proposition. And if this is the move, I'd rather have done it with Taylor Rogers, among others.
As for the theory that this makes Houck expendable in a trade... well, there goes the starter depth after all, and they're probably back to needing to add another one.
Unless Houck is part of a big package for a front-line starter, which I’d be all for. If they use a good young arm for, like, Reynolds (who I like), it would definitely be shuffling deck chairs.
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Post by awalkinthepark on Dec 7, 2022 12:41:32 GMT -5
I wonder if this amount of money going toward relievers could mean Houck is on the block. Would not at all be surprised if the A's liked Houck, they have said they want major league talent in return for Murphy. Maybe a packaged centered around him can get you Murphy without touching any of Casas/Mayer/Bello/Bleis.
Edit: see there is already speculation about this, lol.
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Post by jbsox on Dec 7, 2022 12:44:16 GMT -5
I don’t know why people are so certain the Sox will not go over the tax limit this year. They are fully capable of weighing the advantages and disadvantages of going over the cap in 2023 and then deciding to go over. I was just going to post the same thoughts. The FO has said they are looking at 7 or so signings, so we be looking at least 4 more players and may be going over the tax limit. I’d like 1 more starting pitcher like Nate, but even so I’m excited to see what are current starters look like next year. Nearly all of them provide nice upside Sale, Paxton, Bello, and Whitlock, even Houck, and Pivetta is your dependable 35 starts guy. They could also sign a cheap depth guy like bringing back Rich Hill.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Dec 7, 2022 12:46:54 GMT -5
Bloom 'n Onions
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Post by seamus on Dec 7, 2022 12:49:43 GMT -5
I like this move a lot. It keeps Whitlock firmly in the rotation (meaning they really one need to add one mid-rotation type) and there's probably always at least 2-3 guys available in the bullpen that Cora can feel good about in high-leverage spots, reducing the risk of burnout.
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Post by dirtywaterinla on Dec 7, 2022 12:54:19 GMT -5
Well obviously I'm with the haters on this one. I think the best lipstick you can put on this pig is the theory some have mentioned that this is a backdoor way of increasing starter depth by letting both Houck and Whitlock start.
The problem is that that still depends on Jansen actually being good. That's like a 50/50 proposition. And if this is the move, I'd rather have done it with Taylor Rogers, among others.
As for the theory that this makes Houck expendable in a trade... well, there goes the starter depth after all, and they're probably back to needing to add another one.
Hardly call these BP additions putting lipstick on a pig. And if you think Jansen is pricey, I’m sure the cost of Rodgers is more steep.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 7, 2022 13:04:31 GMT -5
Incandenza, when I read this I almost burst out laughing and thought of you. I don't think you'd give 32 dollars for a closer, let alone 32 million.
Can't imagine Bloom backers are thrilled with this burst of creativity, buy an established closer for big bucks.
I'm on the fence on this one. I value closers with long track records but I can't honestly say I was clamoring for Jansen, although it does keep alive the tradition of obtaining guys who helped the Red Sox win the World Series, by playing on the other team. Lol
I wouldn't have signed Jansen. I think the long ball might bite him a bit and I dont know if they get 2 good years out of him.
My hope was that they'd sign Taylor Rogers, who'd be a lot cheaper and let either him or Schreiber close.
And use that money to being back Eovaldi and obtain Senga.
That said, I totally get why they got Jansen.
It puts an end to closer roulette which has been unstable since Kimbrel left. Workman and Barnes each seized the role for a stretch but imploded badly and from night to night it wasn't obvious who Cira would use to close and the Red Sox let a lot if leads slip away in the 9th last year.
I would have tried Schreiber because he has closed in the minors, pitches great last year, and I dont want to see him pitching multiple innings. I though Rodgers would give them a late lefty or potential closer option.
But now Schreiber and Martin can set up in the 7th and 8th innings.
They can start Houck if need be or trade him although I prefer him as a multi inning reliever than as a starter, but a stable hierarchy develops with Jansen's arrival....as long as he doesnt suck.
So I don't love it but I get it.
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