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Sox heavily scouting Yoshinobu Yamamoto
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Post by dirtdog on Jul 8, 2023 17:23:35 GMT -5
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 8, 2023 17:34:09 GMT -5
Geez, 125 pitches! Easy on the merchandise, lol. I suppose the team that currently employs him wants to win, too. Imagine that.
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Post by kingstephanos on Jul 8, 2023 17:41:40 GMT -5
Geez, 125 pitches! Easy on the merchandise, lol. I suppose the team that currently employs him wants to win, too. Imagine that. The only thing that mitigates that usage a bit is the amount of days off Japanese pitchers have.
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Post by alan on Jul 9, 2023 2:59:04 GMT -5
I wanted Yamamoto ever since they signed Yoshida last December. I truly think he could get 200 mil over 8 years
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radiohix
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'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
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Post by radiohix on Jul 9, 2023 3:36:51 GMT -5
I wanted Yamamoto ever since they signed Yoshida last December. I truly think he could get 200 mil over 8 years And he’ll be worth every single penny of them.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 10, 2023 11:30:44 GMT -5
Geez, 125 pitches! Easy on the merchandise, lol. I suppose the team that currently employs him wants to win, too. Imagine that. The only thing that mitigates that usage a bit is the amount of days off Japanese pitchers have. Yeah they pitch weekly, right? Very different if you get that much time to recover.
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Post by alan on Jul 10, 2023 14:26:54 GMT -5
The only thing that mitigates that usage a bit is the amount of days off Japanese pitchers have. Yeah they pitch weekly, right? Very different if you get that much time to recover. I don’t know now, but earlier in the season Orix had a TEN MAN rotation. Site note, I would love it if Boston just makes Orix their pitching farm, Orix probably has better pitching development than half of the MLB right now
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Post by ixnayexxus on Jul 10, 2023 14:31:30 GMT -5
As they should be; Yamamoto is a younger, far better version of Kodai Senga, who himself is doing more than fine.
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Post by Guidas on Jul 10, 2023 14:38:24 GMT -5
And he'll only be 25 next year. Whatever team that signs him could feel pretty confident going 6 or even 7 years.
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Post by ematz1423 on Jul 10, 2023 14:43:48 GMT -5
And he'll only be 25 next year. Whatever team that signs him could feel pretty confident going 6 or even 7 years. 6 or 7 year deals on a Japanese player kinda scares me, gives me dice-K vibes and he didn't even sign for that much compared to what Yamamoto might get.
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Post by incandenza on Jul 10, 2023 14:52:30 GMT -5
And he'll only be 25 next year. Whatever team that signs him could feel pretty confident going 6 or even 7 years. 6 or 7 year deals on a Japanese player kinda scares me, gives me dice-K vibes and he didn't even sign for that much compared to what Yamamoto might get. It seems like with all the data available now you'd be able to judge an international pitcher pretty much irrespective of their level of competition - velocity, spin rate, release point, and movement are what they are regardless of what the hitter is able to do with them. Whereas I don't know that that was the case in Daisuke's day (and isn't the case now with hitters, since they have to respond to what the pitchers throw them).
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Post by Guidas on Jul 10, 2023 14:52:35 GMT -5
And he'll only be 25 next year. Whatever team that signs him could feel pretty confident going 6 or even 7 years. 6 or 7 year deals on a Japanese player kinda scares me, gives me dice-K vibes and he didn't even sign for that much compared to what Yamamoto might get. I thought of that, but if they're deep into scouting there - and Yoshida seems to indicate they've gotten more sophisticated (or lucky), then they should go all in if they believe in him. The 5-man rotation would be the biggest hurdle for a pitcher. Not sure how they account for that.
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Post by ematz1423 on Jul 10, 2023 15:03:35 GMT -5
Both true points I'm sure scouting and data is better than it was with dice-k but it'll come down to the AAV for me. I'd personally lean towards going after a Nola or Urias even with the QO if the money is close.
If Yamamoto can be had for 20M but Nola and Urias both get 30M then I'd be alright with Yamamoto. If the money is closer then I'd go with the guys who have had MLB success but that's just me since I'm generally a risk averse person. Then again any multi year FA deal to a pitcher has a certain level of risk anyway.
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Post by bosoxnation on Jul 10, 2023 15:11:54 GMT -5
I’m sure we’re going to be all over him. Hopefully Masa being here for 4 more years will help bring his price down a little for us. Not sure i want to drop 150+ million on someone with no MLB success. He is still young which is very promising. 4 years 100 mill would be where i see Bloom around his max.
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Post by Guidas on Jul 10, 2023 15:29:29 GMT -5
6 or 7 year deals on a Japanese player kinda scares me, gives me dice-K vibes and he didn't even sign for that much compared to what Yamamoto might get. It seems like with all the data available now you'd be able to judge an international pitcher pretty much irrespective of their level of competition - velocity, spin rate, release point, and movement are what they are regardless of what the hitter is able to do with them. Whereas I don't know that that was the case in Daisuke's day (and isn't the case now with hitters, since they have to respond to what the pitchers throw them). Which makes me angry(ish) that they missed out on Senga. Perfect #3 being paid like a #4-5.
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radiohix
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'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
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Post by radiohix on Jul 10, 2023 16:20:58 GMT -5
Both true points I'm sure scouting and data is better than it was with dice-k but it'll come down to the AAV for me. I'd personally lean towards going after a Nola or Urias even with the QO if the money is close. If Yamamoto can be had for 20M but Nola and Urias both get 30M then I'd be alright with Yamamoto. If the money is closer then I'd go with the guys who have had MLB success but that's just me since I'm generally a risk averse person. Then again any multi year FA deal to a pitcher has a certain level of risk anyway. I watch a good amount of NBP baseball so let me say this: Yamamoto is the best pitcher there including Roki Sasaki who possesses a higher upside but right now? Yamamoto is THE man over there, dude’s cutter chatters a bat or 2 like in every single game, a guy at the NPB subreddit was keeping counts at a certain point lol…and it’s not even his best pitch!! The splitter is filthy, will definitely be one the best out pitchs in MLB from day 1. He also throws gas in the mid-90s and operates like an MLB pitcher: 4 seamers up, 2 seamers down…and he doesn’t walk anybody! I saw him more agitated after giving up a walk than a base knock! I’ll take him over Nola and Urias in heartbeat…he’s so so good.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jul 10, 2023 18:34:41 GMT -5
As they should be; Yamamoto is a younger, far better version of Kodai Senga, who himself is doing more than fine. Pitchers such as Senga, Ohtani, and Yamamoto have me wondering why there's all this talk about Japanese hitters never seeing velocity. All three can and do bring it.
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Post by notstarboard on Jul 10, 2023 20:23:02 GMT -5
It seems like with all the data available now you'd be able to judge an international pitcher pretty much irrespective of their level of competition - velocity, spin rate, release point, and movement are what they are regardless of what the hitter is able to do with them. Whereas I don't know that that was the case in Daisuke's day (and isn't the case now with hitters, since they have to respond to what the pitchers throw them). Which makes me angry(ish) that they missed out on Senga. Perfect #3 being paid like a #4-5. He's on a 5/75, right? Which 4-5 starters are making that kind of money? Although I think Senga is pitching a bit better than your average 3. Roughly on a 3 WAR pace.
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Post by melvinhoggs on Jul 10, 2023 22:05:46 GMT -5
Which makes me angry(ish) that they missed out on Senga. Perfect #3 being paid like a #4-5. He's on a 5/75, right? Which 4-5 starters are making that kind of money? Although I think Senga is pitching a bit better than your average 3. Roughly on a 3 WAR pace. Jameson Taillon, Taijuan Walker, Chris Bassitt are all in that range – though I think the teams that signed them hoped they'd be closer to a #3 than a #4. But yeah, I think Senga's contract so far looks "good" rather than "holy crap what a steal," unless he kicks it up another notch.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Jul 10, 2023 22:09:26 GMT -5
Quick comparison of the last 3 NPL seasons (counting partial but not winter) for Yamamoto and Matsuzaka:
Yoshi H/9 - 5.8, 6.4, 6.5 BB/9 - 1.9, 2.0, 1.3 K/9 - 9.6, 9.6, 9.9
Dice-K H/9 - 7.8, 7.2, 6.7 BB/9 - 2.6, 2.1, 1.6 K/9 - 7.8, 9.5, 9.7
Yoshi seems to be slightly better across the board. Dice-K was a year younger and did pitch backwards - not sure if that was the reason for his spotty control.
It's tough for the Red Sox to get high-end Japanese players to want to come to Boston. I feel like that was part of the reason for paying so much for Yoshida, especially with his teammate being available the very next year. Should help having a current player recruiting future Japanese players (not like there is a generational talent available next year...gotta have dreams).
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Post by alan on Jul 10, 2023 22:22:09 GMT -5
I’m sure we’re going to be all over him. Hopefully Masa being here for 4 more years will help bring his price down a little for us. Not sure i want to drop 150+ million on someone with no MLB success. He is still young which is very promising. 4 years 100 mill would be where i see Bloom around his max. If you offer this, his representatives will laugh and hang up the phone immediately. Personally I think he can get up to 8 years 200 mil, and I have no problem offering that. Tanaka came to the US almost 10 years ago and got 7/155. Yamamoto has better underlying numbers than Tanaka, and is already one of the best pitchers in NPB history
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redsox04071318champs
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Always hoping to make my handle even longer...
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 10, 2023 22:28:36 GMT -5
I’m sure we’re going to be all over him. Hopefully Masa being here for 4 more years will help bring his price down a little for us. Not sure i want to drop 150+ million on someone with no MLB success. He is still young which is very promising. 4 years 100 mill would be where i see Bloom around his max. If you offer this, his representatives will laugh and hang up the phone immediately. Personally I think he can get up to 8 years 200 mil, and I have no problem offering that. Tanaka came to the US almost 10 years ago and got 7/155. Yamamoto has better underlying numbers than Tanaka, and is already one of the best pitchers in NPB history Agreed. If the max that bosoxnation wants to see Bloom drop on Yamamoto is 4/100, then expect to not even be in the running for Yamamoto. He's young and he'll likely get a contract in the area you mention, 7/155 or even 8 years. It's either than or you're giving five to seven years for more money for more established pitchers who are older.
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Post by bosoxnation on Jul 11, 2023 2:34:10 GMT -5
I’m sure we’re going to be all over him. Hopefully Masa being here for 4 more years will help bring his price down a little for us. Not sure i want to drop 150+ million on someone with no MLB success. He is still young which is very promising. 4 years 100 mill would be where i see Bloom around his max. If you offer this, his representatives will laugh and hang up the phone immediately. Personally I think he can get up to 8 years 200 mil, and I have no problem offering that. Tanaka came to the US almost 10 years ago and got 7/155. Yamamoto has better underlying numbers than Tanaka, and is already one of the best pitchers in NPB history Well those representatives signed a 1 year $4.9 million contract in December so i HIGHLY doubt that. 4 years at 25 mill then you can prove yourself and sign a mega deal in your prime is an easy sell. Also he signed that $4.9 million contract and said “I’m grateful for the excellent evaluation,” and this was after Yamamoto had a 15-5 win-loss record with a 1.68 ERA and 205 strikeouts in 26 starts in 2022, leading the PL in wins, ERA, strikeouts and winning percentage. So a $20,000,000 jump per season and playing with Masa for 4 years seems pretty fair to me. If someone wants to blow 200,000,000 let him go there. Want to know why? Look at EVERY big signing over 150 mill from last offseason alone.
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Post by alan on Jul 11, 2023 3:06:22 GMT -5
If you offer this, his representatives will laugh and hang up the phone immediately. Personally I think he can get up to 8 years 200 mil, and I have no problem offering that. Tanaka came to the US almost 10 years ago and got 7/155. Yamamoto has better underlying numbers than Tanaka, and is already one of the best pitchers in NPB history Well those representatives signed a 1 year $4.9 million contract in December so i HIGHLY doubt that. 4 years at 25 mill then you can prove yourself and sign a mega deal in your prime is an easy sell. Also he signed that $4.9 million contract and said “I’m grateful for the excellent evaluation,” and this was after Yamamoto had a 15-5 win-loss record with a 1.68 ERA and 205 strikeouts in 26 starts in 2022, leading the PL in wins, ERA, strikeouts and winning percentage. So a $20,000,000 jump per season and playing with Masa for 4 years seems pretty fair to me. If someone wants to blow 200,000,000 let him go there. Want to know why? Look at EVERY big signing over 150 mill from last offseason alone. Well I would say they are damn good representatives considering that Yamamoto has the second highest pitcher salary in the NPB, only behind Tanaka. His 1 year 4.9 mil is also the highest AAV in Orix Buffalos teams history. These are informations that took me about 20 seconds to Google. If you think Yamamoto is only worth 100 mil over 4 years, that’s fine, I’m just telling you that if any team wants to get him, it’ll cost almost double that 100 mil.
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Post by bosoxnation on Jul 11, 2023 3:11:04 GMT -5
Well those representatives signed a 1 year $4.9 million contract in December so i HIGHLY doubt that. 4 years at 25 mill then you can prove yourself and sign a mega deal in your prime is an easy sell. Also he signed that $4.9 million contract and said “I’m grateful for the excellent evaluation,” and this was after Yamamoto had a 15-5 win-loss record with a 1.68 ERA and 205 strikeouts in 26 starts in 2022, leading the PL in wins, ERA, strikeouts and winning percentage. So a $20,000,000 jump per season and playing with Masa for 4 years seems pretty fair to me. If someone wants to blow 200,000,000 let him go there. Want to know why? Look at EVERY big signing over 150 mill from last offseason alone. Well I would say they are damn good representatives considering that Yamamoto has the second highest pitcher salary in the NPB, only behind Tanaka. His 1 year 4.9 mil is also the highest AAV in Orix Buffalos teams history. These are informations that took me about 20 seconds to Google. If you think Yamamoto is only worth 100 mil over 4 years, that’s fine, I’m just telling you that if any team wants to get him, it’ll cost almost double that 100 mil. hahahaha 20 seconds that’s funny took you over 30 mins to respond though. Keep them HS digs to yourself. GN and i’ll sleep better knowing you’re not the GM.
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