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Post by vokuhila on Dec 30, 2023 14:41:49 GMT -5
So what now? Replace good but often injured lefty with 2 years of control (Sale) with good but often injured lefty with 2 years contract (Paxton)?
You still need another starter and your middle infield is now very crowded prospects...
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Dec 30, 2023 14:42:07 GMT -5
This trade makes ZERO sense. None. Nothing about it makes any sense. Just purposely making the team worse for no reason with the Verdugo and Sale trades. All of it would have made sense if they acquired an ace. But there aren't any of those left. The Red Sox are well behind the elite teams in the mlb. It makes sense to get some capital back and position the team to leap forward when the competitors have been trading from their farms and overextended themselves financially for a little while. I was more optimistic on Sale than most I think but the Red Sox were able to leverage their financial muscle to better the team for the future. Its possible Sale comes back healthy and good but he hasn’t been both of those things for awhile now. I trust Bailey and Breslow here.
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Post by grandsalami on Dec 30, 2023 14:43:03 GMT -5
Lol. Sale cant stay healthy I mean you aren't wrong. But at least we aren't pretend this trade makes us better now (or at least most of us aren't). I guess I just haven't come to terms with the fact that we are a small market team and will continue acting like a small market team for the foreseeable future. We are not a small market team! that is nothing more than sports talk BS.
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Post by julyanmorley on Dec 30, 2023 14:43:22 GMT -5
Grissom in AAA this year as a 22 year old: .330/.419/.501 with 14% strikeouts.
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patford
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Post by patford on Dec 30, 2023 14:43:38 GMT -5
Mainly just happy Sale is gone.
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Post by soxfan06 on Dec 30, 2023 14:43:51 GMT -5
I mean you aren't wrong. But at least we aren't pretend this trade makes us better now (or at least most of us aren't). I guess I just haven't come to terms with the fact that we are a small market team and will continue acting like a small market team for the foreseeable future. We are not a small market team! that is nothing more than sports talk BS. We certainly aren't operating like a big market team. This is literally the 2nd salary dump trade we have made this offseason.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Dec 30, 2023 14:44:37 GMT -5
I'm expecting Sale to have his healtiest season in a Cy Young year now.
Joking aside. I don't know the kid they got back, but it sounds like a guy the Red Sox already have in David Hamilton, but I guess more upside in the age. Didn't realize Hamilton was 26.
I also feel like they can get the same exact player in Chris Sale with James Paxton. So, might as well get a kid who you can either plug in at a position of need and hope there's continued development. That or they just acquired another guy they can use to flip in another deal (or Yorke) for a guy that shouldn't be hard to replace. Chris Sale does not pitch and is getting older.
So, big move with a result that really doesn't move the needle anywhere. It does seem like it's opening the door for more possibilities. So, something is hopefully in the works.
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Post by levi on Dec 30, 2023 14:44:56 GMT -5
Fun fact: Grissom has a higher ZiPS WAR projection than Chris Sale Grissom — 1.8 WAR in 560 PA Sale — 1.4 WAR in 90 IP I think it’s reasonable to assume Grissom isn’t getting 560 PA in 2024 (let’s assume 450 PA) and Sale will likely be closer to 125 IP (let’s assume 100 IP). So, making these reasonable adjustments you get: Grissom — 1.4 WAR in 450 PA Sale — 1.6 WAR in 100 IP
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Post by grandsalami on Dec 30, 2023 14:45:39 GMT -5
We are not a small market team! that is nothing more than sports talk BS. We certainly aren't operating like a big market team. This is literally the 2nd salary dump trade we have made this offseason. This isnt a salary dump. And the Verdugo one was not a salary dump either. Come on man!
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Post by bluechip on Dec 30, 2023 14:46:09 GMT -5
Not a lot of 2B options I like more than Grissom at his salary/upside combo. Not a great roster fit with Valdez though. Grissom has almost no platoon splits and they both stink on defense. Maybe there’s a Valdez trade out there, wouldn’t have to be immediate though they could play things out a little. Both have options obviously. He is a better hitter than Valdez (already) and is slightly more than 2 years younger. Valdez is not the same player. Edit: he is also far better than David Hamilton. Not every mediocre fielding second base prospect is created the same.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Dec 30, 2023 14:46:32 GMT -5
We are not a small market team! that is nothing more than sports talk BS. We certainly aren't operating like a big market team. This is literally the 2nd salary dump trade we have made this offseason. A small market team wouldn’t be able to send 17M like that. A lot of mid-market ones wouldn’t either.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Dec 30, 2023 14:47:31 GMT -5
We are not a small market team! that is nothing more than sports talk BS. We certainly aren't operating like a big market team. This is literally the 2nd salary dump trade we have made this offseason. Do you even know what a salary dump is? They are only “dumping” 5M and got the Braves top prospect for Sale. That’s like the Red Sox trading Mayer for Burnes and calling it a salary dump for the Brewers.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Dec 30, 2023 14:48:33 GMT -5
We certainly aren't operating like a big market team. This is literally the 2nd salary dump trade we have made this offseason. Do you even know what a salary dump is? They are only “dumping” 5M and got the Braves top prospect for Sale. That’s like the Red Sox trading Mayer for Burnes and calling it a salary dump for the Brewers. The money the Red Sox are “dumping” is also probably going to be spent on another player.
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Post by julyanmorley on Dec 30, 2023 14:48:48 GMT -5
We are not a small market team! that is nothing more than sports talk BS. We certainly aren't operating like a big market team. This is literally the 2nd salary dump trade we have made this offseason. This is the exact wrong take. The Braves have an alltime roster but are in legitimate financial distress and we just bought a serious asset from them using cash. They could have just signed Giolito for a little bit more money and kept the 22 year old hitting whiz.
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Post by stevedillard on Dec 30, 2023 14:49:26 GMT -5
Is Grissom a year ahead of Yorke and same profile? If so, did one of them become redundant and trade-fodder?
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Dec 30, 2023 14:50:29 GMT -5
I mean you aren't wrong. But at least we aren't pretend this trade makes us better now (or at least most of us aren't). I guess I just haven't come to terms with the fact that we are a small market team and will continue acting like a small market team for the foreseeable future. We are not a small market team! that is nothing more than sports talk BS. I half agree. The last couple of years they've been acting as a middle-market team. Maybe that's even strong. They were 4th in 2020, 6th in 2021, 6th in 2022, 13th in 2023 (I've also seen 16th?). For me, 2023 was fine and made sense as a reset year. I'm able to forgive a down year if the goal was to reset and reload, but the angst this off-season is they've yet to splurge. That can change on a dime and hoping that they do. Small market is strong to say. They're not the Royals of the Rays, but they're closer to the White Sox than the Yankees and Dodgers.
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Post by julyanmorley on Dec 30, 2023 14:51:28 GMT -5
Chaim Bloom vindicated for turning down that Rangers offer for Chris Sale
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Post by bojacksoxfan on Dec 30, 2023 14:51:33 GMT -5
"Be bold" is a lot more interesting than "seek value" imo.
I like Grisson as a target a lot although I have been perplexed by how the Braves have seen him this off season. They started the winter with him penciled in as their likely LF and then took on a ton of money to acquire Kelenic who projected about the same and also had a ton of team control. At the time they talked up a competition and it was inferred that they could end up with a Kelenic/Grissom platoon.
So he was an absolute bust as their SS and they went out of their way for him not to be their LF. Obviously he had no chance to be their 2B over Albies. Can't say they believed his SS butchery would carry over to 2B, but certainly can't rule it out.
I hope the people who are penciling in Story to make up for Devers bad defense at 3B, don't mind if people also hope he covers for Grissom's bad defense at 2B. A Casas-Grissom-Story-Devers infield could have a real Seasame St one of these is not like the others vibe to it.
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Post by greatscottcooper on Dec 30, 2023 14:53:30 GMT -5
Sox could add one of Montgomery/Snell and still stay under the tax line. If they chose to do so.
I’m wondering if this makes the need for adding a guy like Teoscar Hernandez much smaller. They can easily roll out 4-5 RH bats every night. If Grissom hits, this lineup is well balanced.
Very interested to see how this kid develops. It certainly looks like he’s a decent bet to hit above average in the bigs. I know the defense hasn’t been great, and that’s a major concern on this team. But given his age is it plausible he could at the very least be marginally better than what we had at 2nd last year? Idk. I’d love to see what the scouting reports are projecting his defense. Maybe the curious case of Duran turning into an average defensive center fielder has my glass half full.
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Post by 07redsox on Dec 30, 2023 14:53:36 GMT -5
I'm expecting Sale to have his healtiest season in a Cy Young year now. Joking aside. I don't know the kid they got back, but it sounds like a guy the Red Sox already have in David Hamilton, but I guess more upside in the age. Didn't realize Hamilton was 26. I also feel like they can get the same exact player in Chris Sale with James Paxton. So, might as well get a kid who you can either plug in and hope there's continued development to plug into a position of need OR they just acquired another guy they can use to flip in another deal (or Yorke) for a guy that shouldn't be hard to replace. Chris Sale does not pitch and is getting older. So, big move with a result that really doesn't move the needle anywhere. It does seem like it's opening the door for more possibilities. So, something is hopefully in the works. Grissom and Hamilton shouldn’t even be in the same sentence together, let alone being compared to one another. He’s already a legitimate ML bat at 22 years of age. He has a lot of potential. Doesn’t mean he will get there, but this is the kind of trade that in a couple of years could look very good.
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Post by azblue on Dec 30, 2023 14:54:05 GMT -5
Grissom was horrendous in Atlanta last year but has some promise to be the future at 2B/OF. Seems like a utility type. Just think everybody was over Sale in Boston. In 75 at bats, Grossom was .280/.313/.660. That is not "horrendous."
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Post by yuchangclan on Dec 30, 2023 14:54:12 GMT -5
I guess this makes up for the non-trade of Sale that Bloom should have made? Now they can go get another starter. Sale is just too unreliable at this stage.
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Dec 30, 2023 14:58:45 GMT -5
I'll be interested to get a quote from the front office on the plan for grissom. He could very well be an option for LF, maybe the Hernandez negotiations broke down and sox pivoted to this instead. He could also be the opening day 2nd baseman, or he could be down in AAA or flipped in a deal.
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Post by briam on Dec 30, 2023 14:58:59 GMT -5
Grissom was horrendous in Atlanta last year but has some promise to be the future at 2B/OF. Seems like a utility type. Just think everybody was over Sale in Boston. In 75 at bats, Grossom was .280/.313/.660. That is not "horrendous." -.7 WAR in 75 ABs is really bad. 78 wRC+. Most likely it was just a SSS blip, but he was really bad.
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Post by pawtucketwalt on Dec 30, 2023 14:59:16 GMT -5
Chaim Bloom vindicated for turning down that Rangers offer for Chris Sale What was the offer?
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