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Post by mainesox on May 23, 2013 20:44:47 GMT -5
Dempster is looking worse with every start so far. I don't think it is a good idea to convert an NL starter to the AL. Hope things turn around soon. Yeah, I'm guessing Kershaw would probably suck in the AL.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2013 20:53:14 GMT -5
Dempster is looking worse with every start so far. I don't think it is a good idea to convert an NL starter to the AL. Hope things turn around soon. Yeah, I'm guessing Kershaw would probably suck in the AL. im not talking about an ace like kershaw, im talking about a mediocre starter like dempster. his ERA in 2011 was 4.80. and that was in one of the easiest divisions to pitch in baseball. that translates bad to the AL east. his success last year was in a small sample of 16 starts when his ERA was 2.25. yes, it was good, but WAY too small a sample. think of James McDonald's start to last year and what he did the second half of the year. (first 17 starts: 2.37 ERA. last 12 starts: 7.08 ERA) Dempster had it rough in Texas, (12 starts: 5.09 ERA) and it is looking the same for Boston. my conclusion: i think that dempsters success last year was WAY too small a sample to give him the money he is getting and bringing him to the AL east.
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Post by jmei on May 23, 2013 21:03:27 GMT -5
Isn't confirmation bias great?
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Post by James Dunne on May 23, 2013 21:05:37 GMT -5
Remember when Hiroki Kuroda wasn't going to be able to pitch in the AL East?
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Post by fenwaythehardway on May 23, 2013 21:09:25 GMT -5
Remember when Hiroki Kuroda wasn't going to be able to pitch in the AL East? Cherry-picking aside, the AL is a significantly tougher environment for pitchers (particularly starters) than the NL.
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Post by James Dunne on May 23, 2013 21:18:46 GMT -5
Yep, but it's not the reason Dempster's control has disappeared in the last couple weeks. He's had bouts of control trouble in the past, but has straightened them out. Blanket statements that it's a bad idea for AL teams to sign NL starters aren't really helpful. In his previous three seasons, he had a 102 ERA+. Before tonight, it was 103 for the season. Tonight's start will throw that off obviously, but expectations of a 4.25 ERA are pretty reasonable, and it will make him a useful enough pitcher.
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Post by marrcus on May 23, 2013 21:18:57 GMT -5
Two wins in this series: acceptable.
One win: would suck.
No win: not going there.
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Post by dmaineah on May 23, 2013 21:41:53 GMT -5
it will make him a useful enough pitcher. If that was the goal of the round table decision makers I'm even more disappointed in them.
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Post by James Dunne on May 23, 2013 21:48:26 GMT -5
The expectation was a #3 starter. I don't think a couple bad starts has changed that.
The "round table decision makers" thing is really tired.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2013 21:56:03 GMT -5
the expectation of a #3 starter to be an innings eater. for example, jason vargas. having an ERA in the 3.70-3.90 range and throwing at least 200 frames is reasonable. dempster looks like he will have an ERA in 4.25-4.50 range, being optimistic, and at this rate, he would need somewhere around 38 starts to get 200 frames. not happening if things continue like this.
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Post by station13 on May 23, 2013 22:07:39 GMT -5
Miller turn over a new leaf?
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Post by dmaineah on May 23, 2013 22:11:19 GMT -5
The expectation was a #3 starter. Really? You believe he was signed with the expectation of being a #3. They missed & they missed badly Anibal Sanchez would have been a #3
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Post by fenwaythehardway on May 23, 2013 22:27:21 GMT -5
Forget the weird number-based starter nomenclature. The question is, will Dempster be worth the 2/26 he's getting paid? Yeah, probably. Whatever.
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Post by jmei on May 23, 2013 22:41:53 GMT -5
Anibal Sanchez would have been a #3 Anibal Sanchez also cost five years and $80m.
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Post by dmaineah on May 23, 2013 22:44:04 GMT -5
Anibal Sanchez would have been a #3 Anibal Sanchez also cost five years and $80m. That's a #3
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Post by bluechip on May 23, 2013 22:56:13 GMT -5
The expectation was a #3 starter. Really? You believe he was signed with the expectation of being a #3. They missed & they missed badly Anibal Sanchez would have been a #3 Anibal Sanchez has been one of the best pitchers in the American League this season, and he was signed to be a number two starter to number two starter money.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on May 24, 2013 0:22:40 GMT -5
Anibal Sanchez also cost five years and $80m. That's a #3 If only the Red Sox hadn't spent that same $80m on Dempster, who's not a number three. Wait, what?
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Post by sdiaz1 on May 24, 2013 0:58:27 GMT -5
How do we know that they sit at round table? I mean maybe Ben Cherington is more of a rectangle kind of guy? Also why again are we comparing a guy who was signed to a 2 year 26 million dollar deal to a guy who was signed to a 6 year 80 million dollar deal?
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Post by sarasoxer on May 24, 2013 7:59:21 GMT -5
Masterson is not an ace. He's a credible fourth starter who happens to be the best pitcher the Indians have. Well, I guess the Indians are a smoke & mirror team then. I think that you undersell Masterson by a wide margin. I'd put him right with Lester and just behind Buch. Besides that he is a big horse...throws a legit 97 and not from the pen. Dominant stuff. If we had him on our staff...playoffs no doubt and a scary team.
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Post by sarasoxer on May 24, 2013 8:02:19 GMT -5
I'm just not sure why Mortensen is on this team. There have to be better options. I think the answer is that they need guys that can go multiple innings from the pen. That guy right now is Mortensen
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Post by fenwaythehardway on May 24, 2013 8:11:55 GMT -5
Well, I guess the Indians are a smoke & mirror team then. I would bet on it. It's baseball, we see this every year. They play 162 for a reason. I think that you undersell Masterson by a wide margin. I'd put him right with Lester and just behind Buch. Besides that he is a big horse...throws a legit 97 and not from the pen. Dominant stuff. If we had him on our staff...playoffs no doubt and a scary team. So basically you overrate him because you've grown used to mediocre Red Sox rotations. Lester and Buchholz do not define what an ace is. They're 2/3 starters who, again, happen to be the best the Red Sox have.
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Post by soxcentral on May 24, 2013 10:07:40 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm guessing Kershaw would probably suck in the AL. im not talking about an ace like kershaw, im talking about a mediocre starter like dempster. his ERA in 2011 was 4.80. and that was in one of the easiest divisions to pitch in baseball. that translates bad to the AL east. his success last year was in a small sample of 16 starts when his ERA was 2.25. yes, it was good, but WAY too small a sample. think of James McDonald's start to last year and what he did the second half of the year. (first 17 starts: 2.37 ERA. last 12 starts: 7.08 ERA) Dempster had it rough in Texas, (12 starts: 5.09 ERA) and it is looking the same for Boston. my conclusion: i think that dempsters success last year was WAY too small a sample to give him the money he is getting and bringing him to the AL east. You lost me on your side of the argument when you referenced a successful 16 start stretch as being too small a sample, then based your position he can't pitch in the AL East off a 10 start sample. I'm not happy with his recent performance either, but its way too early to reach the conclusion you seem to be at already.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 24, 2013 12:03:01 GMT -5
Well, I guess the Indians are a smoke & mirror team then. I would bet on it. It's baseball, we see this every year. They play 162 for a reason. I think that you undersell Masterson by a wide margin. I'd put him right with Lester and just behind Buch. Besides that he is a big horse...throws a legit 97 and not from the pen. Dominant stuff. If we had him on our staff...playoffs no doubt and a scary team. So basically you overrate him because you've grown used to mediocre Red Sox rotations. Lester and Buchholz do not define what an ace is. They're 2/3 starters who, again, happen to be the best the Red Sox have. Perhaps not, but I will say that Buchholz is doing his best Cy Young impersonation. If he stays healthy and continues to do pretty much what he's been doing that would make him an ace. Lester is too inconsistent to be an ace. He's a 2-3 starter as is Masterson. The rest of the Sox rotation is highly mediocre, unfortunately which will afford many opportunities in the future for Webster, De La Rosa, Barnes, Ranaudo, and Owens.
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Post by ray88h66 on May 24, 2013 13:48:39 GMT -5
Weather looks rough the next few days. Sox could probably use an off day, but the bullpen doesn't need any twin bills.
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Post by okin15 on May 24, 2013 14:42:59 GMT -5
Looking like they have a shot to get this one in tonight. Thought it was going to rain early, but not looking that way right now.
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