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Post by okin15 on May 28, 2013 15:43:56 GMT -5
Taking off from the Phillies Series thread, am thinking we might be able to pry him away a bit later in the year. A combo of taking on his cost, plus passing along some MLB talent and prospects might get it done. Would they take a package of Doubront, Rubby, Vasquez and Vitek?
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Post by widewordofsport on May 28, 2013 19:50:00 GMT -5
I don't think it's a dumb proposal, unlike most Red Sox fan suggested trades. I wonder if PHI would pass because they may not see any of those guys as a 'sure' starter, even though those are three really nice pieces with interesting ceilings. Rubby and Vazquez might both really bump up their trade value though over the next 4 months, especially CV if he keeps hitting and keeps his k/bb rates the same.
I actually think Doubrant's K rates are really interesting, and he has shown the ability to harness walks in the past. I think 'we' value him and CV more than other teams do, so even if it's a fair trade to us, maybe not for them.
A random aside... Doubrant is the 6th-longest tenured member of the Red Sox 40-man roster.
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Post by widewordofsport on May 28, 2013 19:51:14 GMT -5
Also. Christian Vasquez = an actor. Christian Vazquez = baseball player.
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Post by jmei on May 28, 2013 21:23:24 GMT -5
I would only trade for Lee if we either gave up significant prospects OR the Phillies ate a lot of Lee's contract. I'm not giving up De La Rosa or even Doubront if the Red Sox are taking on all of Lee's deal.
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Post by mainesox on May 28, 2013 21:56:04 GMT -5
I would only trade for Lee if we either gave up significant prospects OR the Phillies ate a lot of Lee's contract. I'm not giving up De La Rosa or even Doubront if the Red Sox are taking on all of Lee's deal. Agreed, and as much of a fan as I am of adding Cliff Lee to the Red Sox, I'm not sure if I would even do significant prospects if Philly ate most of his contract (not that I don't think he's worth it, I just don't think the Sox should be trading top prospects right now).
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Post by jmei on May 28, 2013 22:15:07 GMT -5
Good point-- I'd much prefer to take on Lee's deal in exchange for non-premium prospects. For instance, I'd give up pretty much any two or three non-top-7 (+Middlebrooks/Doubront/etc.) prospects for Lee, which I think is a fair trade. Something like Brentz, Swihart, and Workman, for instance, might be enough to entice the Phillies. Then again, you rarely see a top pitcher like Lee traded for a bunch of B/B- prospects, even if Lee is on the older and better compensated side.
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Post by mainesox on May 28, 2013 22:28:45 GMT -5
Good point-- I'd much prefer to take on Lee's deal in exchange for non-premium prospects. For instance, I'd give up pretty much any two or three non-top-7 (+Middlebrooks/Doubront/etc.) prospects for Lee, which I think is a fair trade. Something like Brentz, Swihart, and Workman, for instance, might be enough to entice the Phillies. Then again, you rarely see a top pitcher like Lee traded for a bunch of B/B- prospects, even if Lee is on the older and better compensated side. That's pretty much exactly my thought as well. I'd trade any three-ish prospects ranked below Owens on the rankings here and take on Lee's contract. The Phillies might prefer to eat a bunch of his contract and get better players in return, and I couldn't blame them for it if they can afford it, but I seem to recall them being about at their limit for payroll this year, and they've got over $100M guaranteed to 6 players next year, so I could see the case for getting rid of as much money as possible too. If they could get Brentz, Swihart, and Workman (or maybe Vazquez instead of Swihart if they prefer closer to MLB ready) and remove $25M from their payroll I don't see what they wouldn't like about that.
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Post by jdb on May 29, 2013 11:17:27 GMT -5
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Post by okin15 on May 29, 2013 11:30:51 GMT -5
I'm surprised to see that people have Doubront ranked so highly. This is what the trade proposal forum is good. I mean, he's a 5/6th starter on a good team. Just cause he's got basically 100% chance of reaching his ceiling, doesn't mean that's a great player. Plus, with Lee aboard, there's not place for him.
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Post by jmei on May 29, 2013 21:05:41 GMT -5
If Doubront is the centerpiece and is the only significant piece, that's fine. But I think he has trade value at least on par with, say, Matt Barnes or Allen Webster, and I'd be hesitant of any trade where he wasn't the headliner.
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Post by jdb on Jun 8, 2013 9:20:33 GMT -5
Nothing to see here. The Phil's are back to .500 and won't be selling.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 13, 2013 23:14:19 GMT -5
Nothing to see here. The Phil's are back to .500 and won't be selling. I don't see the Phils selling because that's not their style, but they'll have to do a lot better than .500 ball to get into the playoffs. They are good distance behind the Braves and just as far out of the Wild Card behind Cincy and Pittsburgh. Their deficit isn't insurmountable and certainly Pittsburgh could drop. If I were Ben, I'd offer Doubront, Britton, Workman, and Brentz for Lee, but we know they'd prefer higher tier talent like Bogaerts, Cecchini, Webster, De La Rosa instead. As great as I think Lee is the Sox need to keep with the youth and keep the upper tier talent.
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Post by okin15 on Jun 14, 2013 10:28:33 GMT -5
I think that's an overpay. I agree with JMei that Doubront is more valuable than most of the younger arms in the system. Doubront plus Britton OR Workman is the main piece of a deal for Lee. They probably also want a wild card lower level guy which we don't have much of.
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Post by brendan98 on Jun 14, 2013 12:54:38 GMT -5
Those were the names I was thinking as well, maybe Doubront as the centerpiece, and Workman or Britton, and maybe Almanzar or Marerro for a package of Lee and see if we can get Darin Ruf in the deal, he is a DH/1B and won't play 1B in Philly. Could the Phillies do better than that?
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Post by wcsoxfan on Jun 14, 2013 23:36:01 GMT -5
Doubront + Workman + Marrero is a no-brainer for the Red Sox if they are still in 1st at the deadline. Think Philly would take this? It's a bit light on 'high-end' talent.
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Cliff Lee
Jun 15, 2013 13:08:35 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by pedroelgrande on Jun 15, 2013 13:08:35 GMT -5
Why would they take Marrero? It probably takes one or more of the guys in the top 10 Cecchini, Swihart, Owens etc.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Jun 15, 2013 14:37:58 GMT -5
Why would they take Marrero? It probably takes one or more of the guys in the top 10 Cecchini, Swihart, Owens etc. Probably - and given his contract, that would be a poor long-term move by the Red Sox.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Jun 15, 2013 14:38:55 GMT -5
I doubt the loss of this bonus would deter Lee from wanting to head to the AL - but I thought it was funny anyway:
Incentives: a) $50K each for Gold Glove, Silver Slugger, All-Star, LCS MVP b) $100K for WS MVP c) $0.1M for Cy Young Award, $75K for second in voting, $50K for third in voting
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,825
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Post by nomar on Jun 15, 2013 15:14:29 GMT -5
WMB could be going to Philly in the event of a Lee trade too, depending on how far his value has dropped in their eyes.
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Post by dmaineah on Jun 15, 2013 15:18:28 GMT -5
Why would Philadelphia trade Lee? The G.M. has come out and said he wasn't going to and even said that his SP staff along with Paplebon should be built around. Plus, since April 18th they have the best record in the NL East. @ 27-25.
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Post by brendan98 on Jun 15, 2013 16:36:21 GMT -5
Why would Philadelphia trade Lee? The G.M. has come out and said he wasn't going to and even said that his SP staff along with Paplebon should be built around. Plus, since April 18th they have the best record in the NL East. @ 27-25. First, if you are the Amaro and are considering trading Lee and/or Papelbon, of course you are going to say that you plan on building around them, if you throw up your hands and say make an offer, you are not going to get as good a return. Wow, 27-25, they have been red hot, so over the last 50+ games they have gone from being 4 games under .500 to 2 games under.500. The fact of that matter is that they are 3rd in their division, and 6.5 behind the leader. They are also looking up at 5 teams that are ahead of them for the wild card, and are actually 7 games back in the wild card standings.
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Post by welovewally on Jun 15, 2013 20:21:55 GMT -5
Those were the names I was thinking as well, maybe Doubront as the centerpiece, and Workman or Britton, and maybe Almanzar or Marerro for a package of Lee and see if we can get Darin Ruf in the deal, he is a DH/1B and won't play 1B in Philly. Could the Phillies do better than that? I seriously doubt they trade Lee and if they did they would do a lot better then what you have proposed.
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Post by Legion of Bloom on Jun 16, 2013 1:43:02 GMT -5
Doubront, Britton, Middlebrooks and Hazelbaker for Lee (Phils pick up a nice chunk) and call it a day.
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Post by burythehammer on Jun 16, 2013 5:30:20 GMT -5
What people in this thread really mean when they say "Doubront is more valuable!" is "I'd much rather give up Doubront!"
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Post by johnsilver52 on Jun 16, 2013 7:50:11 GMT -5
Doubront, Britton, Middlebrooks and Hazelbaker for Lee (Phils pick up a nice chunk) and call it a day. Not wanting the 60m obligated to Lee through 2016 anyway, nor the possible 27m in 2017, but Philly isn't likely to take a 6thOF, struggling back end SP that has lost 2-3mph off of his FB, a 3b who looks lost at the plate and by all rightfull means? Should be back at AAA and Britton, who is probably the only real person in that list who has long term interest in a trade ATM.
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