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2012 MLB Non Sox
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Post by gatortough on Nov 13, 2012 18:48:11 GMT -5
which means I hope Ben is less likely to try it. agree. I think this might be a blessing in disguise. If there was ever any point in trying to compete this year it just dwindled further. Less pressure to get away from a "disciplined" approach.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Nov 13, 2012 18:58:12 GMT -5
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Post by mjammz on Nov 13, 2012 18:58:51 GMT -5
Jon Morosi @jonmorosi Source: #Marlins will get Jacob Marisnick or Anthony Gose, as well as a catcher -- Arencibia, Wilson or Mathis.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Nov 13, 2012 19:26:36 GMT -5
To Toronto: Jose Reyes, Josh Johnson, Mark Buehrle, Emilio Bonifacio, John Buck To Miami: Yunel Escobar, Adeiny Hechevarria, Henderson Alvarez, Jake Marisnick, Jeff Mathis, (former Sox draft pick) Anthony DeSclafani
I do think there's a non-zero chance this gets shot down though.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,824
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Post by wcp3 on Nov 13, 2012 21:47:48 GMT -5
I think it's about time the Marlins get their team taken away from them.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Nov 13, 2012 22:29:32 GMT -5
It appears that the Marlins are pulling the plug on their Miami re-branding rather quickly. Rosenthal and Morosi are saying amongst others, Reyes, J Johnson, and Buehrle to Toronto for Escobar, Hechavarria, and Henderson Alvarez and others. AA is at it again. You should have been a professional diplomat... Maybe you are! Anyone foolish enough to believe that the Sharks, pardon me the Marlins ownership would magically reform given a shiny new stadium by the good folks of south Florida, or more specifically their elected representatives, hasn't been paying attention. Jeffrey Loria keeps the reset button close by at all times.
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Post by remember04 on Nov 14, 2012 8:31:17 GMT -5
I think it's about time the Marlins get their team taken away from them. Depending on what the real final deal is I like this a lot more for the Marlins than I do the Jays. Johnsons injuries and inconsistencies associated with them make him very overrated in my book. Buehrle is on an awful contract as is Reyes and they get three good pitchers in return and a good catcher. Not sure about the status of Gose either.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Nov 14, 2012 9:59:42 GMT -5
Depending on what the real final deal is I like this a lot more for the Marlins than I do the Jays. Johnsons injuries and inconsistencies associated with them make him very overrated in my book. Buehrle is on an awful contract as is Reyes and they get three good pitchers in return and a good catcher. Not sure about the status of Gose either. It's not the worst trade for them on a pure baseball level if you remove all context. But the trade fits into a larger pattern of how the Marlins are run, which is to say that they're less of a baseball team and more of an ongoing grift designed to soak up free money from the fans, the local taxpayers and even the league itself. It's not that they made this move. It's that everyone knew this move was coming a year ago when the Pujols negotiations broke down over Miami's refusal to give him a no-trade clause. Gee, I wonder why they didn't want to do that...
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Post by elguapo on Nov 14, 2012 10:22:23 GMT -5
they're less of a baseball team and more of an ongoing grift designed to soak up free money from the fans, the local taxpayers and even the league itself. If the majority of taxpayers really didn't want to be fleeced they would choose different representatives. Even if Johnson walks next year, the Jays get a compensation pick. Nicolino was compensation for losing Marco Scutaro...
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Post by jmei on Nov 14, 2012 10:43:21 GMT -5
Right, but the average compensation pick is turns out to be much worse than Nicolino looks like he's going to be.
It's the fallacy I see of "letting Beltre and Martinez walk got us Barnes, Bradley, Owens, and Swihart, so we should just let Ellsbury walk and pocket the comp. pick!" Just because the team has had luck in the past with comp. picks doesn't mean it will again in the future; the next supplemental round draft pick is as liable to be Vitek or Bryan Price as it is to be Barnes and Bradley.
(Also, there's no guarantee Johnson receives the QO, especially if he suffers with injuries.)
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Post by James Dunne on Nov 14, 2012 11:05:45 GMT -5
I'm not sure people realize how good Mark Buehrle is. He just had his 12th consecutive 200+ IP season, and he's failed to have an ERA+ of 100 or higher in only one of those seasons (it was a 95 in 2006). He's showing little sign of aging and had his best K rate in four years. His fWAR is now close to 50, sixth among active players. I'd take his career over Andy Pettitte's.
He's the sort of player that people don't get excited about, particularly on a prospect forum, because he doesn't have that *upside* panache, but he just pitches well, year after year after year. His contract might be a slight overpay, but his durability and consistency make him the sort of player to invest in. A 3.0 WAR downside is worth a lot.
It's a sensible trade for the Blue Jays, I think. Buehrle is solid, Reyes is an upgrade, and Johnson has ace upside. The division is in a strange state, and AA may have seen it as an opportunity to make a run, meaning a one-year rental of Johnson is worth a little more.
Nicolino is really the only prospect here that I'm super high on anyway.
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Post by Matt Huegel on Nov 14, 2012 12:12:11 GMT -5
Torii Hunter off the board:
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Post by MLBDreams on Nov 14, 2012 12:29:24 GMT -5
I bet Ben C will miss out on Mike Napoli as possible FA to sign for since Torii Hunter opted to sign with the Tigers. Who want to join last place & dysfunctional Red Sox? It's long way to rebuild a winning organization unless Ben acts faster on trade talks/signing FA. I think he's too slow on everything.
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Post by elguapo on Nov 14, 2012 12:41:11 GMT -5
2 years, $26 for Hunter - too rich for my blood
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Post by patrmac04 on Nov 14, 2012 12:46:16 GMT -5
I never saw Hunter coming to the sox honestly so that doesn't change anything the team will do. I think the tigers will be a force next season and the Jays significantly improved the short term outlook for the team.
Does anyone see the Jays making this blockbuster because they are trying to take advantage of a small window while the Sox and Yanks rebuild?
Sent from my SGH-T999 using proboards
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Post by jmei on Nov 14, 2012 13:02:45 GMT -5
I bet Ben C will miss out on Mike Napoli as possible FA to sign for since Torii Hunter opted to sign with the Tigers. Who want to join last place & dysfunctional Red Sox? It's long way to rebuild a winning organization unless Ben acts faster on trade talks/signing FA. I think he's too slow on everything. (1) The Punto trade and the firing of Bobby Valentine did a lot to change any negative perceptions of the Red Sox. Gobs of money can do the rest. (2) You do realize Cherington has already signed a free agent, right? And that he's been connected with pretty much every available FA? And that last season, he pulled the trigger on one of the most significant franchise-altering deals in MLB history?
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Nov 14, 2012 13:03:57 GMT -5
I bet Ben C will miss out on Mike Napoli as possible FA to sign for since Torii Hunter opted to sign with the Tigers. Who want to join last place & dysfunctional Red Sox? It's long way to rebuild a winning organization unless Ben acts faster on trade talks/signing FA. I think he's too slow on everything. It's November 14th. Relax. Also, Torii Hunter is old.
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Post by remember04 on Nov 14, 2012 13:06:26 GMT -5
2 years, $26 for Hunter - too rich for my blood I agree. I just hope we don't do anything stupid with Cody Ross now. I still think we're playing the waiting game with him. We probably made an offer and he chuckled a little and we're waiting for him to realize that's as good as it gets.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Nov 14, 2012 13:07:16 GMT -5
I never saw Hunter coming to the sox honestly so that doesn't change anything the team will do. I think the tigers will be a force next season and the Jays significantly improved the short term outlook for the team. Edit: Forgot about Sands. He's an option at first also. Does anyone see the Jays making this blockbuster because they are trying to take advantage of a small window while the Sox and Yanks rebuild? Sent from my SGH-T999 using proboards Yes, that probably has a lot to do with it. The Rays are cash strapped, the Sox rebuilding, the Orioles had quite a bit of luck this season, and the Yankees got undressed by the Tigers with anemic hitting including a flaccid ARod. So why not take a shot at it? I hope the Sox stay focused on the task at hand. I don't mind seeing them pick up a few useful bats, say Napoli and Swisher, but no longterm stuff. Right now, the team has what is potentially an entire outfield, if Bogaerts ends up there, no more than a year away. Not just any outfield either. There are at least a couple of stars waiting to shine. First base is the biggest question mark for me. I have very little feel for Shaw at this point.
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Post by beasleyrockah on Nov 14, 2012 14:33:35 GMT -5
The deal makes human sense for the Jays in the same way human greed makes sense for the Marlins. The state of the division is part of it, but fan morale was down in Toronto after the Farrell trade, even though a lot of them wanted Farrell out. AA has done a great job of gathering talent, but ownership can be impatient, and I think he was nervous he would never get to "go for it" with this organization if he didn't pull the trigger this offseason. Another season of watching the Orioles and Rays compete while the Red Sox and Yankees progress their "retooling" might lead to an overreaction and even great GM's can get fired in those situations. Toronto is a great city, but FA's seem to largely stay away when the money is close, it's certainly not a top destination. I think the money they assumed could've been more effectively spent on the FA market, but maybe they felt they'd have to overextend to land FA's. As a baseball fan I'm excited to see what other moves AA makes now that he's in "win now" mode.
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Post by mredsox89 on Nov 14, 2012 14:35:30 GMT -5
Earlier today, Gammons tweeted that a Marlins/Sox deal would have had to include WMB, Xander, and Doubront. Not sure how many people here, if any, would have been on the positive side if the Sox had done that
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Post by elguapo on Nov 14, 2012 14:39:38 GMT -5
Earlier today, Gammons tweeted that a Marlins/Sox deal would have had to include WMB, Xander, and Doubront. Not sure I buy that line.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Nov 14, 2012 14:40:22 GMT -5
Earlier today, Gammons tweeted that a Marlins/Sox deal would have had to include WMB, Xander, and Doubront. Not sure how many people here, if any, would have been on the positive side if the Sox had done that Yeah that would be bad.
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Post by remember04 on Nov 14, 2012 14:51:21 GMT -5
Earlier today, Gammons tweeted that a Marlins/Sox deal would have had to include WMB, Xander, and Doubront. Not sure I buy that line. I'm with you, the talent difference between those two packages is noticeable.
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Post by curll on Nov 14, 2012 15:30:09 GMT -5
I'm gonna guess the Sox take a shot at getting LoMo. Shouldn't cost too much and he could do well in Fenway's LF.
Almost a certainty he'll be traded this off-season.
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