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Post by bryce on Sept 15, 2014 22:42:56 GMT -5
See......?Manny Machado,Derek Jeter,Evan Longoria,Dustin Pedroia,Alex Gordon,Miguel Cabrera,Jose Abreu,Joe Mauer,Mike Trout,Robinson Cano,Jose Altuve,Giancarlo Stanton,David Wright,Andrew McCutchen,Joey Votto,(Kris Bryant),Buster Posey,Paul Goldschmidt,Troy Tulowitzki and Carlos Gonzalez. These guys are the real ones worth us to build around. Does Mookie Betts have the potential to do that? He is even never selected the top 20 prospects of MLB(not the midseason type list...... I mean the beginning of new season's ranking) So I don't think he will have any chance to become such a superstar like them. I think he will be a good player in the near future,but he won't be the core player of the team who will be built around. What I said before is either,either,Either,Not Do both. I said a player worth to be built around ethier has potential to hit 20+ HR or has a lot of 0.300 batting average seasons. Hey, Ryan Howard and Dayan Viciedo have both already eclipsed the 20 HR "Build around" mark, Ben Revere averaged over .300 the last three seasons (2/3 with one 294. 2013 he technically didn't qualify with 336 PA) lets get those guys too. Bogaerts, Betts, and Vazquez clearly are not "build around" guys, maybe we can swap those 3 for them. Does that paragraph need to be in italics, or can I assume that 100% of the reading population will easily identify it is sarcasm? In theory,a hitter who worths to be built around should have one of these performance: 1)30HR+,batting average over 0.270 2)20HR+,batting average over 0.280 3)15HR+,batting average over 0.300 4)below 10HR,batting average over 0.320 What you say is wrong. Ryan Howard is a good player worth to be built around. See what he did when he was still young before. His batting numbers dropping because of his older age. Everyone has that. If you say Howard doesn't worth,I think Yankees is a fool to build around Derek Jeter for over 20 years. White Sox has never build around Dayan Viciedo and I don't think he worths. Ben Revere has over 0.300 batting average just two times(this season has not been over yet,and I think his batting average will below 0.300 as the season ends.) He was seldom qualified with enough BA to show his average is a "REAL One".He is even nothing a powerful threat because he just hit 2HR in his career ,so I think the example you take is very strange and not fit my theroy.
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Jay Bruce
Sept 15, 2014 21:06:23 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by bryce on Sept 15, 2014 21:06:23 GMT -5
Betts isn't a guy we should build around him. He can hit neither over 20 HR per year nor .320 batting average in a year. We know he doesn't have terrific power,so we don't talk about that. He is a player whose hitting type is like Jose Altuve,but Altuve has a higher ceiling. Maybe Altuve can't repeat his over.320 batting average again but I think there are a lot of years he could hit over .300. In the other way,Betts can do that just one or two times in his career but not "many times"(refer to over 3 times). Maybe Betts isn't the first ballot HOF which Jay Bruce clearly is according to you, but why would the Sox waste a valuable trade chip on an avg OF'er coming off a terrible year. It makes as much sense as most of your posts. I just think Phillies,White Sox and Reds won't easily give us their great pitcher if Betts isn't included in the package.
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Post by bryce on Sept 15, 2014 14:03:10 GMT -5
Betts isn't a guy we should build around him. He can hit neither over 20 HR per year nor .320 batting average in a year. We know he doesn't have terrific power,so we don't talk about that. He is a player whose hitting type is like Jose Altuve,but Altuve has a higher ceiling. Maybe Altuve can't repeat his over.320 batting average again but I think there are a lot of years he could hit over .300. In the other way,Betts can do that just one or two times in his career but not "many times"(refer to over 3 times). Why do you pick on such specific numbers? I mean if Betts hits 19 homers in a year he's a failure, but if he hits 20 he's a superstar in the class of Jay Bruce? If Betts hits .319 he's a failure, but only if he were a .320 hitter he'd be worth having? Do you know how silly that sounds? Betts has broad skills that translate to putting runs on the scoreboard better than most players. Not that it's particularly relevant, but it wouldn't shock me at all to see Betts hit .320 or more in his best season or even perhaps have a 20 home run season at his peak. There's no reason this kid shouldn't hit around .300 with good OBP skills, the kind that would make him a valuable leadoff hitter, steal 20 - 40 bases and hit about a dozen to 15 homers per year. All at baseball's minimum wage and all while having the flexibility to play an excellent 2b, a solid CF, and a decent RF in a ballpark that demands speed in RF. Again, why wouldn't the Red Sox want to build around a guy like that? See......?Manny Machado,Derek Jeter,Evan Longoria,Dustin Pedroia,Alex Gordon,Miguel Cabrera,Jose Abreu,Joe Mauer,Mike Trout,Robinson Cano,Jose Altuve,Giancarlo Stanton,David Wright,Andrew McCutchen,Joey Votto,(Kris Bryant),Buster Posey,Paul Goldschmidt,Troy Tulowitzki and Carlos Gonzalez. These guys are the real ones worth us to build around. Does Mookie Betts have the potential to do that? He is even never selected the top 20 prospects of MLB(not the midseason type list...... I mean the beginning of new season's ranking) So I don't think he will have any chance to become such a superstar like them. I think he will be a good player in the near future,but he won't be the core player of the team who will be built around. What I said before is either,either,Either,Not Do both. I said a player worth to be built around ethier has potential to hit 20+ HR or has a lot of 0.300 batting average seasons.
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Post by bryce on Sept 15, 2014 13:42:32 GMT -5
Why do you pick on such specific numbers? I mean if Betts hits 19 homers in a year he's a failure, but if he hits 20 he's a superstar in the class of Jay Bruce? If Betts hits .319 he's a failure, but only if he were a .320 hitter he'd be worth having? Do you know how silly that sounds? Betts has broad skills that translate to putting runs on the scoreboard better than most players. Not that it's particularly relevant, but it wouldn't shock me at all to see Betts hit .320 or more in his best season or even perhaps have a 20 home run season at his peak. There's no reason this kid shouldn't hit around .300 with good OBP skills, the kind that would make him a valuable leadoff hitter, steal 20 - 40 bases and hit about a dozen to 15 homers per year. All at baseball's minimum wage and all while having the flexibility to play an excellent 2b, a solid CF, and a decent RF in a ballpark that demands speed in RF. Again, why wouldn't the Red Sox want to build around a guy like that? It's simple, the guy is blinded by Jay Bruce. He will not rest until Bruce in the uniform of the redsox. There are many young powerful rightfielders who have not only homerun power but also cannon arm to throw the runner out on the home plate in the league now! It shocked me that the Sox doesn't have one!!!!! Marlins has Giancarlo Stanton and Marcell Ozuna. Nationals has Bryce Harper,Michael Taylor and Steven Souza Jr. Tigers has Steven Moya. Twins has Oswaldo Arcia. Dodgers has Joc Pederson and Yasiel Puig. Astros has George Springer. Cubs has Jorge Soler. Rays has Wil Myers. White Sox has Avisail Garcia. Angels has Kole Calhoun. Athletics has Josh Reddick. Rangers has Michael Choice. Braves has Jason Heyward and Justin Upton. Cardinals has Oscar Taveras. Pirates has Gregory Planco and Josh Bell. Reds has Jay Bruce. Padres has Rymer Liriano. Diamondbacks has David Peralta. And Red Sox? If your answer is Mookie Betts,I think you have a good sense of humor!
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Post by bryce on Sept 15, 2014 13:27:36 GMT -5
Betts isn't a guy we should build around him. He can hit neither over 20 HR per year nor .320 batting average in a year. We know he doesn't have terrific power,so we don't talk about that. He is a player whose hitting type is like Jose Altuve,but Altuve has a higher ceiling. Maybe Altuve can't repeat his over.320 batting average again but I think there are a lot of years he could hit over .300. In the other way,Betts can do that just one or two times in his career but not "many times"(refer to over 3 times). Maybe Betts isn't the first ballot HOF which Jay Bruce clearly is according to you, but why would the Sox waste a valuable trade chip on an avg OF'er coming off a terrible year. It makes as much sense as most of your posts. I don't say we use Betts for Bruce. I say if we want to get a great pitcher by trade,the only very valuable trade chip the other teams will force us to put on the table is Mookie Betts. I want to make the most of his trade value to bring a nice pitching back. Bruce is an additional one based on the move that we have got a great pitcher first.
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Post by bryce on Sept 15, 2014 11:49:52 GMT -5
Yankees really needs a regular rightfielder next year. They assigned many scouts to Reds to see Jay Bruce,so I think he is Yankee's potential trade target this offseason. No gain,no pain. So you will need to give up something big to get another thing big back. If we can't give at least one of Cespedes or Betts,there is no "great"pitcher available for the Sox to trade. We just can only get that one in free agency. If the Yankees want Bruce they can have him. Bruce is not what I'd call a "big" acquisition. He's thoroughly mediocre which is something you seem to fail to grasp. As far as getting a "great" pitcher, Cespedes who is one year away from free agency will not get the Sox a "great" pitcher. Matt Latos is a good pitcher, not great. The closest thing to a "great" pitcher is Cole Hamels, and I'm sure he'll cost Mookie Betts and others like Blake Swihart and a lefty like Owens or Rodriguez. I'd much prefer to see the Sox give Lester a contract approaching market value and keep Betts who you seem to think is fungible. Betts is a guy the Sox should be building around, not getting rid of. Betts isn't a guy we should build around him. He can hit neither over 20 HR per year nor .320 batting average in a year. We know he doesn't have terrific power,so we don't talk about that. He is a player whose hitting type is like Jose Altuve,but Altuve has a higher ceiling. Maybe Altuve can't repeat his over.320 batting average again but I think there are a lot of years he could hit over .300. In the other way,Betts can do that just one or two times in his career but not "many times"(refer to over 3 times).
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Post by bryce on Sept 14, 2014 14:51:31 GMT -5
Is Brett Anderson an intriguing option for the Sox to pursue when we fail to bring Lester back or sign James Shields?
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Post by bryce on Sept 14, 2014 14:49:25 GMT -5
Sign Pablo Sanderval to play third. He is young and has the kind of power this team needs. A four or five year deal would only lock him up to 33. He'd be a good canidate to replace Ortiz down the line as DH if those young third baseman worked out. Bradley, Middlebrooks, and Lavarnway are trade canidates. Bogarts should stay at short with Pedoria and Nap at second and third. Vasquez should stay where he is. Id resign Ross and have him compete with with Butler as back up catcher. Brock Holt would be super utility Castillo would be the CF. I'd put Betts in right with Cepedes in left. Nava would be the fourth outfielder. Craig would probably be a trade canidate. Victorino could go to camp with team to give them time to figure out what to do. If you need another starter Morse would be a good canidate. Guys like Rivero could be givening a change to make the team off the bench but theyd more likely have to added a few players to the bench from the outside. Ortiz is obviously DH. Trade for Cliff Lee and Papelbon. Lees trade Value is low and we have some former prospects that have as well. But could still help a rebuilding team that is looking to unload big contracts. Lee is a veteren pitcher who would gibe much needed credibility to our young staff. Hed have to pass a physical of course Papelbon would futher salary relief and could still help us win. Sign James Shields. He is a solid number 2 that could replace Lackey. Buchholtz, Kelly, Del La Rosa would fill out the rest of the rotation. A buy low canidate like Masterson could be brought in to compete for a spot. Workman the the young starters would be canidates too. Webster and Ranualdo could be trade canidates. Resign Koji as set up man to Papelbon. . Might have to bring in a few outside bullpen arms. Workman and Wright are canidates for pen. Layne may have already earned a spot. Muicja could have value as late inning arm. We know what Tazawa and Breslow could do. Bedenhop could be resigned if he doesnt get a better deal elsewhere. Breslow is probably gone. Wow! There are only two LH guy in our starting lineup next year. It will be a nightmare for lefty and most of the pitcher in MLB will be very happy to face Red Sox!!!
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Post by bryce on Sept 14, 2014 14:47:23 GMT -5
Trades for: Chris Sale And Rizzo (We have a lot prospects) Just untouchable Mookie Betts. Signs: Pablo Sandoval and James Shields. Redsox trades candidates: Napoli, WMB, JBJ, Victorino, etc... I think you are very humerous!
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Post by bryce on Sept 14, 2014 14:45:19 GMT -5
If we can't get him,you will see him join the Yankees and crush Red Sox! No offense intended, but I think you're out of your mind. Your end game is to have an OF of Heyward, Castillo, and Bruce? Your infield would be a mess. You have a 3b in mind with your deal for Napoli and you're cool with replacing Napoli with Craig who at this point is even worse than Bruce? And you've given up your best player in Betts, one of best offensive players in Cespedes, a high OPS good glove guy in Napoli, a bunch of good prospects, and you think, presto, you've made the Sox a juggernaut? As bad as the Sox have been in 2014, I'm so glad you're not the GM. However, the Phillies could use some help... How about the Sox sign Lester, and keep Betts and Cespedes for starters? Yankees really needs a regular rightfielder next year. They assigned many scouts to Reds to see Jay Bruce,so I think he is Yankee's potential trade target this offseason. No gain,no pain. So you will need to give up something big to get another thing big back. If we can't give at least one of Cespedes or Betts,there is no "great"pitcher available for the Sox to trade. We just can only get that one in free agency.
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Post by bryce on Sept 13, 2014 12:07:51 GMT -5
If we can't get him,you will see him join the Yankees and crush Red Sox!
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Jay Bruce
Sept 13, 2014 5:54:26 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by bryce on Sept 13, 2014 5:54:26 GMT -5
Just gonna toss it out there. Either you are a troll, or your ideas are just garbage. It won't be garbage,but it will be fantasy!
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Post by bryce on Sept 12, 2014 22:43:26 GMT -5
To be fair, Jay Bruce has a pretty great track record and has struggled with injuries this year. He's left-handed, hits for power, and was a four win player as recently as 2013. He'd be a solid enough buy-low candidate if the Lester/Lackey trades had never been made and the Red Sox were looking to upgrade one of their corner outfield spots. But with the outfield picture as crowded as it is and how much it'd probably take to pry him loose, he doesn't make a lot of sense. It's doesnt matter. Trade away Victorino,Cespedes,Napoli and Nava. Get him and Latos in a blockbuster. These will solve it!
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Post by bryce on Sept 12, 2014 22:41:22 GMT -5
Jay Bruce is last amongst qualified NL Right Fielders in OBP AND Slugging... he's also 2nd last in DRS, sounds like a perfect candidate for the 2014 Sox, but aren't we actually trying to win some games next season? What you said is this year's injuried Bruce. Every star hitters has their down year in their career,so why do you criticism him about this all the time? We should see the bright side of a player. Let's see what he did for Reds the past 6 years,OK? Two Silver Slugger Award,two All-Star,two Gold Glove finalist. Yoenis Cespedes and Daniel Nava didn't do that =_=
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Post by bryce on Sept 12, 2014 22:34:36 GMT -5
I just want to trade both Heyward and him! Not only Heyward! He is the only four LH OF available this offseason(Heyward,Bruce,Gonzalez and Domonic Brown) Heyward is a reasonable one but it's not enough if we only get him. Gonzalez is a prone-to-injury guy who I think we should stay away from him. Domonic Brown is a terrible guy we should not pursue. So despite Heyward,I hope we can get Bruce. With respect, that's amazing all you can talk about in this forum is solely and exclusively about changes involving Jay Bruce and Jason Heyward. Knowing this, why would it be feasible trade for a guy who is hitting .216 and his OBP is not even .300? I do not find any logic and more with our team full of OF (6, making a quick calculation). We need PITCHERS, PITCHERS. I would not want to see how Mookie Betts becomes a star in our eyes on another team, I would give the chance in the OF next year. You say what we really need now are pitchers. In this theory, I agree with you. But this doen't conflict with each other. We can talk with Reds about Mat Latos and Jay Bruce in a blockbuster. This will make us to get the great pitcher and the power bat to replace Cespedes who seems go to Braves for Heyward.
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Post by bryce on Sept 12, 2014 22:27:45 GMT -5
Let's get Heyward and him this offseason! So the Sox can unveil the 1 infielder, 6 OF strategy. I like it There won't be 6 outfielders in the Sox. I mean trade away Yoenis Cespedes and Mookie Betts to get a great pitcher what the Sox is eager to acquire. And trade Mike Napoli and Daniel Nava to get a regular 3B. So I suggest using prospects package to get Heyward. And some established star hitters included package to get Mat Latos and Jay Bruce in a blockbuster.
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Post by bryce on Sept 12, 2014 10:50:06 GMT -5
Let's get Heyward and him this offseason!
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Post by bryce on Sept 12, 2014 10:47:00 GMT -5
didn't make mine... don't get it at all. Bryce (the guy who responded to your question) loves Jay Bruce. He really wants the Red Sox to trade for him. I just want to trade both Heyward and him! Not only Heyward! He is the only four LH OF available this offseason(Heyward,Bruce,Gonzalez and Domonic Brown) Heyward is a reasonable one but it's not enough if we only get him. Gonzalez is a prone-to-injury guy who I think we should stay away from him. Domonic Brown is a terrible guy we should not pursue. So despite Heyward,I hope we can get Bruce.
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Post by bryce on Sept 12, 2014 10:41:52 GMT -5
Except for him,is there any other one for us to balance our lineup?
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Nava
Sept 9, 2014 21:25:36 GMT -5
Post by bryce on Sept 9, 2014 21:25:36 GMT -5
I don't like the playtoon idea like this. Playtoon stragy is not a long-term way.
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Post by bryce on Sept 8, 2014 21:41:51 GMT -5
If the package for Stanton is too expensive in terms of young talent, I'd move on to Heyward for a lesser group. They are the same age (1989 birth year) with upside, though Stanton clearly has the superior production numbers. The advantage with Heyward is that he's LH and would fit in well with what is a predominantly RH hitting lineup. Then again, the downside of Heyward is that he is signed for only one more year, he likely still costs one premium prospect (Mookie?) and he isn't nearly as good as Stanton. I do agree with sibbysisti !!! Heyward is a LH that can balance our too "righthanded" lineup. His asking price isn't high now because of his struggle offense this year. Maybe he isn't as good as what Stanton can bring to us,but it is still an intriguing one for us to have. I think if we want to get Stanton,the package may including three of Yoenis Cespedes,Mookie Betts,Henry Owens and Blake Swihart. This will cost us a lot and hurt our farm system badly. I don't think it's a wise idea to get him.
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Post by bryce on Sept 7, 2014 8:20:16 GMT -5
With the issues at third and Wrights down year, do you think he is a proper target and considering his contract, what it would take to get him. I'm thinking Middlebrooks and Webster might be enough. thoughts? I think he will stay in Mets in the long-term and retire there because of his captain position they give him.
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Post by bryce on Sept 7, 2014 8:17:35 GMT -5
This discussion was going on in the main board, but I figured it was more appropriate here. Mods can move posts here, if they want. It ended with jmei saying : I really like the idea of trading Cespedes in general for the reasons jmei outlined in the other thread: there is one more outfielder currently on the roster for next year than we have a spot for and Cespedes is generally the kind of player who's trade/free agent value is likely to be higher than his on-field value. However, I'm not too sold on those pitchers as returns. Both Latos and Leake have essentially been league average pitchers this year (plus or minus a little depending on which metric you use). Latos has a solid history of being much better, but he's lost a decent amount of velocity as I said in his thread, so there's certainly no guarantee that he'll return to that level of performance. Leake has put up some nice improvements in his peripherals this year, but he's still only been a 94 xFIP- pitcher, and worse than that by FIP or ERA. I'm not sure either one of them project to be a #2 starter. To me, the big benefit of trading Cespedes is that you could really get a very good return for him without hurting the team too much because of the outfield surplus, but I'm not sure you get that return in Latos or Leake. I do really agree with you. But it seems Reds is prefer Betts to Cespedes according to some resources. If we send Cespedes,Reds will be only willing to give us Mike Leake.
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Nava
Sept 5, 2014 20:25:19 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by bryce on Sept 5, 2014 20:25:19 GMT -5
Even after his terrible start, Nava is above average hitting vs. RHP this year, for $500k. He hits RHP about as well as Bruce hits overall in every other season than this one, where he is terrible and making over $12 million/yr. Maybe we should have picked up Dan Uggla, who was good enough to get more than $10 million per year at age 30. And if you think Nava is so terrible, why do you think he has trade value? This is a horrible thread. Maybe I made a mistake again. I means "before" their age of 30 but not "at" that age. Uggla got over 10M per year when he was 32,so he isn't that kind of young,talented guy who get that money when 29,28,or even younger. Do you really consider Dan Uggla a terrible player? Maybe he is ,in these two years. But Don't forget his past performance. He was a powerful guy who hit over 25HR, even 30, per year. He was selected an All-Star before. He won Silver Slugger Award. Many of his statics is leading in NL when he was a Marlins. Does NAVA get any honor or award like him? He is just undervalued compared to his contract now but not a terrible guy !
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Nava
Sept 5, 2014 10:22:45 GMT -5
Post by bryce on Sept 5, 2014 10:22:45 GMT -5
There are few players in the league who get over 10M annul salary before their age of 28,Bruce is one of that type of player. It means he is a great player that many teams are eager to have. His contract compares to his performance seems it is a real bargain. His highest salary is just $13M.The one who perform like him are paid over 18M. Brandon Moss is a natural 1B,he is just an average outfielder,so he may be moved back to 1B whenever he leaves Oakland. He went back to OF due to Reddick's injury and poor outfield offense after Cespedes's leave. Bryce, I commend you for thinking outside the box. If you search my posts in the trade proposal subforums, it wouldn't take you long to figure out that I enjoy proposing/discussing hypothetical trade scenarios, no matter how unlikely they are to happen. (Hopefully,) no one will knock you for that. The problem is the arguments you are making are pretty weak. Jay Bruce is left handed, still young, has power, has a good arm, and has a reasonable contract. Those are all statements that would be hard to argue with. Those statements however do not in any way prove that Bruce is a better fit for this team than Nava is, or that Bruce would be worth the trade acquisition cost to the Red Sox. Jmei laid out a very thoughtful response with statistical evidence showing that Bruce and Nava are very similar players, with Bruce being better overall but not by much, and that it is not worth the trade pieces and the additional salary it would take to acquire him. Your response to this was that Bruce made a certain salary by a certain age (Honestly I am having trouble understanding what you are trying to say here). This in no way proves your point that the Red Sox should trade for Bruce. Counting stats, like HRs, are generally useless without the rest of the context. Maybe IP for starters carries some weight alone, but not much. Chris Davis for example has 25 HRs and is hitting 194/300/408. The triple slash lines paint a more complete picture of how a player has performed, and fangraphs expands offense to wRC and wOBA, which try to consolidate all actions on the offensive side to one number that is comparable against different types of hitters. The contract status you spoke about also carries no weight. No one cares at what age the person was paid what amount, because it means nothing. If you are going to talk about Bruce's performance against his contract that is a worthwhile discussion. Now we determined Bruce is slightly better than Nava, but when you factor in their contracts you have to see how Nava is favorable. His contract comes at 1/5 the cost for 2015. Would you rather buy the new Ford you wanted at 25,000, or a new comparable Chevy for 5,000? Add on top of that, it would take a good deal to pry Bruce from the Reds, if he was even available at all. It is just not worth the slight upgrade when we have big pitching and infield holes. So right now you are looking through your telescope into the vast outer space for answers to the Red Sox problems. In the lens you see a handful of players for whatever reason; Heyward, Bruce, Latos, etc, and nothing or no one else. At least that is how it seems to me, and probably to others on this board. You keep saying the same statements about these players over and over, as if you could find the correct way to order the words lefthanded, power, and young we will all change our minds and agree with you. We are trying to look at the entire landscape and see other factors than the ones you repeatedly point out. And also, just know, even if you got 100% of this board to agree with you 100% about Jay Bruce, we still are not the ones who make the Red Sox decisions. In this thread,I don't intend to tell you how much desire I want the Sox to pry Bruce away. I just want to say how terrible Daniel Nava is. I think Red Sox should trade him this offseason to make good use of his trade value. Does he hit over 15 HR per year? Does he have over 150 hits in a year? Can he be the candidate for the Gold Glove? Does he have cannon arm? What he did only appeal to me is that his walk rate is so great that I think he has a good pitch judgement. Why does he not give up RH as he even doesn't versus lefthander? Why does his biography still show he hit both? I only see him hit from right side when facing Orioles pitcher Wei-Yin Chen. Young means when a player plays terribly in a year and we can hope him to bounce back in another year because he has a lot of time to grow up. In the other way,the old one,we can't expect him to do like this. A player who can get over 10M per year "before" his age of 30 means he is a so great player that his team is willing to pay him a large contract.
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