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10/19 Red Sox vs. Tigers ALCS Game 6 Thread
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Post by mredsox89 on Oct 20, 2013 1:20:03 GMT -5
Just got back from the game. Stayed for about half an hour until everyone went back to the clubhouse. Just an amazing night capping off arguably the greatest/most shocking week in recent sports memory with the two Sox grand slams and the Pats win
Since I'm sure it was beaten to death, no one around me or seemingly anywhere in the park were even "meh" when Morales came in. Everyone knew it could go horribly wrong, and then he pretty much proved everyone correct.
But I did like Farrell's quicker hook on Buch, he clearly didn't have it after the 5th.
Workman was fantastic, and worst case he's in the pen in Boston next year. Sure, some miserably base running helped, but he made a few great pitches and got the ground ball when needed.
The fact that Pedey came 3 inches from a HR, Bogey launched one that is gone if it's two feet right, and Gomes missed a HR by 4 inches was all washed away by Victorino who left everyone in the park speechless. Out of everything that could have come from that at bat, a slam was probably last on things anyone expected. Just unreal
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Post by mainesox on Oct 20, 2013 1:27:32 GMT -5
An off-topic, on-website comment: if Byron Buxton's been making plans for a party celebrating being named #1 prospect in baseball by BA and others, he might want to back off a bit. And Xander's assertion that something strange happened to his pitch recognition in his second PA is one of the best interview moments I've ever heard. It's like even his own conscious brain is surprised at how good the unconscious part is.
"Every jumbled pile of person has a thinking part / that wonders what the part that isn't thinking / isn't thinking of."* In Xander's case, it turns out, it's "that's a slider, don't swing." *They Might Be Giants, "Where Your Eyes Don't Go." What interview is this from (what day/game)? I missed it, but I'd really like to see it.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Oct 20, 2013 1:50:21 GMT -5
Oh yeah. He might just be the next Masterson type for the Sox, lets just hope this one doesn't end up getting traded away until a rotation slot opens up.
Could it be possible that Bogaerts and Middlebrooks are the SS/3b during the WS and Drew sits finally? Watching his struggles at the plate has has gone on long enough. Bad enough with Salty, but Drew the team could sit with options that have the ability to do better.
Does Farrell get atta/ boys for warming up the pen during the 6th when Bucholz 1st got into trouble?
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Post by grandsalami on Oct 20, 2013 1:54:50 GMT -5
“@brianmacp: The story of the Victorino grand slam, as told from the perspective of the office, the suite, the dugout, the field: t.co/dlpcCAPEiV”
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Post by Oregon Norm on Oct 20, 2013 3:11:04 GMT -5
Spent the day at the annual gathering got one of our local non-profits whose board I'm on, then dancing my ass off to the best band in this town. In between I checked ESPN's live feed on my phone. Of course it was exciting and gratifying that they pulled it out. The dessert was reading through the posts, of course. The combo of intense navel gazing, bitter recriminations, despair, then exhilaration, to go with the murder of crows, is unbeatable. Great team, great win, great stuff!
Coming to you from the great northwest
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Oct 20, 2013 3:22:56 GMT -5
An off-topic, on-website comment: if Byron Buxton's been making plans for a party celebrating being named #1 prospect in baseball by BA and others, he might want to back off a bit. And Xander's assertion that something strange happened to his pitch recognition in his second PA is one of the best interview moments I've ever heard. It's like even his own conscious brain is surprised at how good the unconscious part is.
"Every jumbled pile of person has a thinking part / that wonders what the part that isn't thinking / isn't thinking of."* In Xander's case, it turns out, it's "that's a slider, don't swing." *They Might Be Giants, "Where Your Eyes Don't Go." What interview is this from (what day/game)? I missed it, but I'd really like to see it. The Fox postgame. Unfortunately, thanks to the bugginess of Comcast's X1 DVR software, my recording of the game ends long before the interview, else I'd give you an exact quote.
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Post by bjb406 on Oct 20, 2013 4:04:59 GMT -5
Does Farrell get atta/ boys for warming up the pen during the 6th when Bucholz 1st got into trouble? Absolutely not. Buchholz had been cruising, was at like 80 pitches, and he gave up 1 walk and an infield hit. So Farrell overreacted to last start and put in the worst reliever in the pen, who proceeded to give up 2 runs.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Oct 20, 2013 6:18:49 GMT -5
Does Farrell get atta/ boys for warming up the pen during the 6th when Bucholz 1st got into trouble? Absolutely not. Buchholz had been cruising, was at like 80 pitches, and he gave up 1 walk and an infield hit. So Farrell overreacted to last start and put in the worst reliever in the pen, who proceeded to give up 2 runs. Nah ... Farrell brought in the wrong guy, but he took out the right one at the right time. Buchholz was down below 90mph and clearly having trouble locating. He just doesn't have the stamina and arm strength to go past around 85 pitches. Maybe it'll come back in the Series, maybe not. But he needed to come out. Overall, a good game by Farrell with that one (very) bad decision. Win it for Jim Lonborg!
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Oct 20, 2013 6:30:20 GMT -5
Buchholz was cooked and leaving his pitches up. He was very fortunate that Cabrera didn't take him deep as the last batter he faced. Farrell learned from his mistake in game 2 of the ALCS when he left Buchholz in too long and the game almost got out of reach. Morales is the last guy you bring with runners on base given his poor control. You have to bring in Workman there and hope for a ground ball. Also I am still amazed that Martinez didn't make it to 2nd on his hit as the Red Sox were clearly not even looking to make a play at second.
The game came down two plays at shortstop. The one that Drew made to save a run and the one that Iggy didn't make which extended the 7th inning and allowed Victorino to make every little thing all right.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Oct 20, 2013 7:14:26 GMT -5
Buchholz hasn't been very good the 3rd time thru the order. He's not getting out of that jam either. I've purposely avoided the gameday threads during the playoffs and enjoy the games. Any post-season success is icing on the cake to a spectacular season. I assumed we kinda figured out Farrell knows what he's doing. After all he did get a team predicted to finish in 4th or 5th place to The World Series.
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Post by soxfan06 on Oct 20, 2013 7:50:26 GMT -5
Does Farrell get atta/ boys for warming up the pen during the 6th when Bucholz 1st got into trouble? Absolutely not. Buchholz had been cruising, was at like 80 pitches, and he gave up 1 walk and an infield hit. So Farrell overreacted to last start and put in the worst reliever in the pen, who proceeded to give up 2 runs. Disagree. He was throwing 89-90 MPH at that point. He was done. The problem was, Farrell choose the wrong guy.
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Post by semperfisox on Oct 20, 2013 9:01:47 GMT -5
I love you Xander. Fuck you Morales.
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Post by semperfisox on Oct 20, 2013 9:07:41 GMT -5
Peter Gammons ?@pgammo 8h Xander Boegarts vs. Max Scherzer:3 AB, 3 3-2 counts, 19 pitches, two walks, double.
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Post by soxfan06 on Oct 20, 2013 9:28:46 GMT -5
Never thought I'd say this, but I'm ecstatic to see Lackey pitch game 1 of the World Series.
At least I hope Farrell doesn't change it up...other than letting Peavy face the pitcher in the NL park.
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Post by larrycook on Oct 20, 2013 9:29:00 GMT -5
Excellent team win yet again for these Red Sox!
I thought Buchholz was cooked and needed to come out. I thought Farrell would bring in Doubront as the lefty since Doubront pitched pretty well in game 5. Morlaes was over hyped and should have been lifted after the first batter.
Do the Sox come back with Lester and Lackey or Lackey and Lester in games #1 and #2 of the series against St. Louis?
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Oct 20, 2013 9:47:24 GMT -5
Absolutely not. Buchholz had been cruising, was at like 80 pitches, and he gave up 1 walk and an infield hit. So Farrell overreacted to last start and put in the worst reliever in the pen, who proceeded to give up 2 runs. Disagree. He was throwing 89-90 MPH at that point. He was done. The problem was, Farrell choose the wrong guy.I'll give Farrell credit for the amount of high-leverage innings that he's funneled to the Breslow/Tazawa/Uehara trio. He clearly has a plan for how he wants to win postseason games-- the starter pitches into the sixth and the three horses get him the rest of the way. The problem is that when that plan breaks down, he doesn't really know how to react. Going to Morales there when you have an infinitely better lefty reliever available to you in Breslow... why? Hell, it was the sixth inning, it was basically Breslow's time to pitch anyway. But I guess if you use Breslow before you use Workman the universe breaks or something.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Oct 20, 2013 9:49:25 GMT -5
Oh yeah, and Xander Bogaerts has either a walk or a double in like 85% of his PAs.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Oct 20, 2013 9:55:32 GMT -5
Never thought I'd say this, but I'm ecstatic to see Lackey pitch game 1 of the World Series. At least I hope Farrell doesn't change it up...other than letting Peavy face the pitcher in the NL park. As Larry refers to above, with three days off, Lester can pitch game one. Interested to see how they work this.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Oct 20, 2013 10:02:21 GMT -5
Buchholz hasn't been very good the 3rd time thru the order. He's not getting out of that jam either. I've purposely avoided the gameday threads during the playoffs and enjoy the games. Any post-season success is icing on the cake to a spectacular season. I assumed we kinda figured out Farrell knows what he's doing. After all he did get a team predicted to finish in 4th or 5th place to The World Series. Refreshing to see some understatement. .200 / .259 / .240, .278 K%, .056 BB% -- Clay first two times around the batting order, postseason.* .529 / .579 / 1.235, .000 K%, .105 BB% -- the third time (19 BFP). *Compare .195 / .265 / .270, .249 K%, .089 BB% -- before his injury, complete line. In the whole regular season, he was tougher the third time around the order. Clay has hit the wall after: 79 pitches, 11 pickoffs, 20 warmups (9 days rest) 67 pitches, 0 pickoffs, 25 warmups (5 days) 74 pitches, 8 pickoffs, 25 warmups (5 days) Assuming the extra rest helped his ALDS game 3 stamina, there's some progress being made. If he goes in Games 2 and 6 it'll be 4 and then 5 days rest, while going in games 3 and 7 would be 6 and 4. Given Lackey's home / road splits and the fact that he'd be pitching game 3 on 10 days rest, I think we'll see Lackey in game 2 versus Wacha, then Clay versus Kelly in game 3.
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Oct 20, 2013 10:04:15 GMT -5
Did last night really happen?
Also, Xander <3
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Oct 20, 2013 10:25:38 GMT -5
Including the postseason, Xander has hit .280 / .393 / .440 in 61 PA in MLB.
His walk rates in pro ball:
.107 DSL .084 Greenville .097 Salem / .010 Portland 2012 .136 Portland 2013 / .106 Pawtucket / .164 Boston
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Post by jmei on Oct 20, 2013 10:29:16 GMT -5
Disagree. He was throwing 89-90 MPH at that point. He was done. The problem was, Farrell choose the wrong guy.I'll give Farrell credit for the amount of high-leverage innings that he's funneled to the Breslow/Tazawa/Uehara trio. He clearly has a plan for how he wants to win postseason games-- the starter pitches into the sixth and the three horses get him the rest of the way. The problem is that when that plan breaks down, he doesn't really know how to react. Going to Morales there when you have an infinitely better lefty reliever available to you in Breslow... why? Hell, it was the sixth inning, it was basically Breslow's time to pitch anyway. But I guess if you use Breslow before you use Workman the universe breaks or something. MacPherson on twitter (I think) made the interesting point that Morales started warming at the top of the sixth, before Hunter had walked and while the game was still relatively low-leverage. The idea is that by the time Hunter walks and Cabrera singles, there's not enough time to warm Breslow and so Farrell has to go with Morales (unless he wants to lose the platoon advantage for Fielder and Martinez (much better hitting lefty) and go with Workman). The problem with this argument is that even at the beginning of the inning, Farrell knows that if Buchholz starts to struggle, he's going to need his relievers to face some of Detroit's best hitters (Fielder, Martinez, Peralta) with runners on base-- a situation where you want one of your better relievers coming in, even if it's earlier in the game. You can then have Workman/Morales face the bottom of the order in the 7th. It has the downside of maybe having to have Breslow warming in the pen unnecessarily if Buchholz gets out of the inning, but even if that happens, you probably have Breslow coming in in the 7th or 8th inning anyways. It was just a lack of creativity from Farrell-- it's the sixth inning, so I'm not going to bring in my top guys. He has to have a little more foresight there.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Oct 20, 2013 10:43:20 GMT -5
As well as Xander did in this series, he got two walks which probably were really strikeouts. The umps clearly like him. We are lucky in that regard but overall he was still fine. Several solid hits and some decent plate discipline. Handled everything in the field. It certainly is tempting to go with Xander and Middlebrooks but it seems clear that Farrell will continue with Drew and Xander. They even want to market Drew to St. Louis this winter effectively, with St. Louis in need of a quality FA SS. Drew probably plays but he hasn't really even looked good at the plate recently at all. A strong case could be made for Xander at SS and Middlebrooks at 3rd at least some in the WS, at least after pinch hitting opportunities. We need to anticipate more pinch hitting in general against St Louis, which also has an outstanding pitching staff, probably an even better overall staff than Detroits. And the key to that in my mind is Nava. I hope, beyond hope, that Farrell has an epiphany on that subject in the next few days. Gomes had one good AB this series. I think Nava would have been better.
With a collective BA of a little over 200 this series, Farrell should reconsider the platoon approach which got us here in the first place. We were to a degree lucky to have won this series. We didn't hit well but benefited from 2 big flies. We got better pitching than we could have expected. We benefited from some of the worst defense I've ever seen in a playoff series from the opposing team. "Fielder" made his name an antonym in an epic fail of Arod proportions. In a series of close, low scoring games the Sox clearly were better defensively. We need all hands on deck, including Nava and Carp. There is no reason to think that they will not produce as they have all year.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Oct 20, 2013 11:18:27 GMT -5
I'll give Farrell credit for the amount of high-leverage innings that he's funneled to the Breslow/Tazawa/Uehara trio. He clearly has a plan for how he wants to win postseason games-- the starter pitches into the sixth and the three horses get him the rest of the way. The problem is that when that plan breaks down, he doesn't really know how to react. Going to Morales there when you have an infinitely better lefty reliever available to you in Breslow... why? Hell, it was the sixth inning, it was basically Breslow's time to pitch anyway. But I guess if you use Breslow before you use Workman the universe breaks or something. MacPherson on twitter (I think) made the interesting point that Morales started warming at the top of the sixth, before Hunter had walked and while the game was still relatively low-leverage. The idea is that by the time Hunter walks and Cabrera singles, there's not enough time to warm Breslow and so Farrell has to go with Morales (unless he wants to lose the platoon advantage for Fielder and Martinez (much better hitting lefty) and go with Workman). The problem with this argument is that even at the beginning of the inning, Farrell knows that if Buchholz starts to struggle, he's going to need his relievers to face some of Detroit's best hitters (Fielder, Martinez, Peralta) with runners on base-- a situation where you want one of your better relievers coming in, even if it's earlier in the game. You can then have Workman/Morales face the bottom of the order in the 7th. It has the downside of maybe having to have Breslow warming in the pen unnecessarily if Buchholz gets out of the inning, but even if that happens, you probably have Breslow coming in in the 7th or 8th inning anyways. It was just a lack of creativity from Farrell-- it's the sixth inning, so I'm not going to bring in my top guys. He has to have a little more foresight there. I'm baffled by how many major league managers lack this kind of basic foresight. I mean it's a one-run game, and since you're trying to get another inning out of your starter, you know that if you do have to go to the bullpen it's going to be some massively leveraged situation. You're going to be bringing a reliever into what will almost certainly be a one-run or tie game, probably with runners on base, in the six inning, in a game where if you win you go to the world series. So yeah, sounds like a perfect time to warm up your sixth best reliever. There's a lot of manager-worship going around these days, about all the secret hidden knowledge they posses about the game that we don't know about but that must justify their terrible decisions. And then you watch the games and managers consistently fumble really basic things like this. Jim Leyland, who gets praised up and down, turned his single best reliever into a LOOGY in this series and didn't even get him into the right spots in that roll. I get that Jim Leyland has forgotten more about baseball than I'll ever know, but that doesn't change the fact that he managed his bullpen about as poorly as could be imagined in this series. I get that the job of a manager goes far beyond in-game decisions, but there's something seriously wrong in the industry when so many managers are flatly incompetent when it comes to running a game.
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Post by stevedillard on Oct 20, 2013 11:28:18 GMT -5
Mods: the kid will be the most dominant graduate and now wins you the ALCS and he doesn't even get his mug on the site's graduate roll;). Is 50 ab the cut-off?
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