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Baseball America Organizations Top 10 Prospects
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Post by James Dunne on Dec 12, 2013 7:32:54 GMT -5
2003: Delmon Young (#1 overall) 2004: Jeff Niemann (4) 2005: Wade Townsend (8) 2006: Evan Longoria (3) 2007: David Price (1) 2008: Tim Beckham (1) 2009: LeVon Washington (30) 2010: Josh Sale (17), Justin O'Connor (31), Josh Vettleson (42) 2011: Listed above 2012: Richie Shaffer (25)
I'm not sure if their problem is drafting or development, but their hit rate on high picks has been awful.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Dec 12, 2013 10:27:26 GMT -5
You mean after they stopped getting high picks. I mean, you could say they whiffed on the Beckham/Posey year too. And look at that 2011 draft, where they completely whiffed on pretty much every pick but Guerreri and Snell.They had some obscene number (11 I think) of top-100 picks that year too, in what was a very deep draft.
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Post by moonstone2 on Dec 12, 2013 14:26:25 GMT -5
2003: Delmon Young (#1 overall) 2004: Jeff Niemann (4) 2005: Wade Townsend (8) 2006: Evan Longoria (3) 2007: David Price (1) 2008: Tim Beckham (1) 2009: LeVon Washington (30) 2010: Josh Sale (17), Justin O'Connor (31), Josh Vettleson (42) 2011: Listed above 2012: Richie Shaffer (25) I'm not sure if their problem is drafting or development, but their hit rate on high picks has been awful. Right and there are still three premium players on that list including their two biggest stars. I have always thought that a great deal of the Rays success was having the opportunity at some obvious guys like Price and Longoria. Yes they have had some other draftees like Alex Cobb (4th 06), Jerremy Helickson (4th 05). But by and large you can't build a farm system by hoping 4th rounders turn out. Now that they aren't drafting at the top, they won't be able to get players like Price, Longoria, and Upton and that will put them back on the AL East's doormat where they rightfully belong.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Dec 13, 2013 11:32:44 GMT -5
Toronto Blue Jays (http://www.baseballamerica.com/minors/toronto-blue-jays-top-10-prospects/)
1. Aaron Sanchez, rhp 2. Marcus Stroman, rhp (Brett Lawrie) (Drew Hutchison) 3. D.J. Davis, of 4. Mitch Nay, 3b 5. Franklin Barreto, ss (Anthony Gose) 6. Daniel Norris, lhp 7. Roberto Osuna, rhp 8. Alberto Tirado, rhp 9. Dawel Lugo, ss 10. Sean Nolin, lhp
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Post by James Dunne on Dec 13, 2013 11:37:56 GMT -5
Imagine that list with D'Arnaud, Syndergaard, Nicolino and Marsinick? Trading away talent like that and giving yourself a chance to make the playoffs is one thing, but to do that and win 74 games? The Royals got slammed (and seem to still get criticized) for trading Myers and Odorizzi, but got a good player back and are seemingly a real contender in 2014.
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Post by Guidas on Dec 13, 2013 11:41:01 GMT -5
Imagine that list with D'Arnaud, Syndergaard, Nicolino and Marsinick? Trading away talent like that and giving yourself a chance to make the playoffs is one thing, but to do that and win 74 games? The Royals got slammed (and seem to still get criticized) for trading Myers and Odorizzi, but got a good player back and are seemingly a real contender in 2014. Royals were a contender for a decent portion of 2013, too. That trade paid immediate benefits. If it put more butts in seats and increased their ratings then the short term benefits were enhanced. Still, rather have Myers.
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 13, 2013 12:56:04 GMT -5
Imagine that list with D'Arnaud, Syndergaard, Nicolino and Marsinick? Trading away talent like that and giving yourself a chance to make the playoffs is one thing, but to do that and win 74 games? The Royals got slammed (and seem to still get criticized) for trading Myers and Odorizzi, but got a good player back and are seemingly a real contender in 2014. I can't believe how many people fell into the trap of thinking Toronto had turned themselves into some great team with those moves. I'm allowed to say this because it's not a second guess on my part. Those deals were indefensible at the time; completely god awful decisions that probably set that team back a decade. It's too bad because they were moving in the right direction up to that point and I'd like to see a successful team in Canada. No team was hurt more by the strike than Toronto.
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Post by elguapo on Dec 13, 2013 13:28:17 GMT -5
[I can't believe how many people fell into the trap of thinking Toronto had turned themselves into some great team with those moves. I'm allowed to say this because it's not a second guess on my part. Those deals were indefensible at the time; . They got a legit starter in Dickey - they took a risk committing two rotation slots to Johnson & Buehrle - they got a terrific player in Reyes - and they got greedy trying to squeeze value out of fat worthless Melky Cabrera and got wicked smart signing super-ultra-useful utility star Maicer Izturis, hoping to Win Now. All this we knew - the roll of the dice just turned up snake eyes, and the moves were not balanced for longer term success.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 13, 2013 13:32:53 GMT -5
A 38 year old knuckleballer who just won the Cy Young - no way could he regress.
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Post by zil on Dec 13, 2013 20:24:12 GMT -5
A 38 year old knuckleballer who just won the Cy Young - no way could he regress. To be fair, Dickey had been very, very good the two year prior to winning the Cy Young. I'm still happy Toronto decided to dump two prime young talents to get him, but betting on Dickey was far from the dumbest part of Anthopoulos' instant contender plan.
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Post by juanpena on Dec 14, 2013 0:07:22 GMT -5
One team was hurt worse by the strike than Toronto.
Even if the Expos hadn't won the 1994 World Series, they'd probably be playing today in a nice, baseball-only stadium in Montreal. If they had won the World Series, they definitely would.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Dec 14, 2013 1:01:41 GMT -5
The career path for knuckleballers is just like what they throw: up down and all around. Their seasons are no more repeatable than their pitches.
Coming to you from the great northwest
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Post by charliezink16 on Dec 14, 2013 1:03:07 GMT -5
[I can't believe how many people fell into the trap of thinking Toronto had turned themselves into some great team with those moves. I'm allowed to say this because it's not a second guess on my part. Those deals were indefensible at the time; . They got a legit starter in Dickey - they took a risk committing two rotation slots to Johnson & Buehrle - they got a terrific player in Reyes - and they got greedy trying to squeeze value out of fat worthless Melky Cabrera and got wicked smart signing super-ultra-useful utility star Maicer Izturis, hoping to Win Now. All this we knew - the roll of the dice just turned up snake eyes, and the moves were not balanced for longer term success. I dunno man, that's a 2WAR pitcher who turning 40 next season. 3yr/$36 mil left on a backend starter who's only due to regress. I love knuckleballers (I think that's pretty self-explanatory), but with the way he's pitching, his age, and especially the ballpark he's in, there isn't really a positive way to look at it from Toronto's POV. It was one of those trades that we all looked at oddly, for good reason...
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Post by jmei on Dec 14, 2013 10:57:21 GMT -5
I actually really liked Toronto's moves last season. They rolled the dice on injury-prone players, and basically everything that could go bad did go bad. They're the team I think is most likely to have a 2013 Red Sox-esque rebound this year, especially if they can improve the back of their rotation before Spring Training. FWIW, Fangraphs projects them for 86.5 wins, and they're my pick for 3rd best team in the AL East next year (behind the Sox and Rays, ahead of the Yankees and Orioles).
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Post by James Dunne on Dec 14, 2013 13:02:36 GMT -5
I liked what the Jays did last year from a fan perspective, because it's fun when teams are aggressive and (for lack of a better term) ballsy. But rationally, putting so many eggs into Johnson/Reyes/Dickey seemed too high risk to me at the time, and that proved to be the case. Their upside is still enormous - if Bautista, Reyes, and Rasmus are all fully healthy, and Rasmus's long-awaited 2013 breakout was the real deal, and they can get some quality innings beyond Dickey and Buehrle, and Dickey and Buehrle themselves are closer to 2012 (or 2011, or 2010) than the innings-eater-ish 2013 varieties, then they are a real contender. That's a lot to go right, but every year there are teams that everything seems to go right for.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Dec 14, 2013 15:10:58 GMT -5
I think the Blue Jays, Royals and Marlins (of 2012) proved that you can't buy a championship unless you have a strong base to start from. In certain situations all of these trades moves make sense, but they seem to be mortgaging their futures to go from below-average to average. This hasn't really worked since the 97 & 03 Marlins - and you can argue that they had stronger bases.
But as long as GMs keep getting extended for thinking like this - whats going to stop them?
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 14, 2013 16:04:21 GMT -5
Toronto has nothing good in the rotation behind Dickey and Buehrle and Buehrle is an innings eater only. He has no upside anymore - his value is in his durability and likelihood to not completely stink. Wins may not be a good indicator, but he's a .500 pitcher. He's not even a guy you'd want starting in the playoffs for you unless you needed a fourth. Think Peavy last year.
Morrow can't even be counted at this point. So right now they have a 3(RA) and a 4(MB). Have a lot of work to do. Since they are all in, they should really be looking hard at Jimenez and Nolasco at the money he got was a miss for them. They need a home run so Jimenez is the gamble they should take.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Dec 15, 2013 3:29:42 GMT -5
The Yanks will be back with a passion next year. We will be challenged to hold them off for the division title. They will keep opening the checkbook and probably land Tanaka and I doubt they are though overall signing players. Kuroda and Tanaka alone will carry that team a long way. And Sabathia probably comes back some.
No doubt they will miss Cano though, and Mo.
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Post by wskeleton76 on Dec 15, 2013 4:03:58 GMT -5
The Yanks lineup will be much much better even without Cano. But there are still big questions on pitching. They can acquire Tanaka in the big competition? It looks like most teams put him as a prior target. They may need one more proven starter other than Tanaka. David Robertson can close the game? They were lucky last season in terms of Pythagorean W-L. It is hard to happen again.
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Post by iakovos11 on Dec 15, 2013 8:32:47 GMT -5
Tanaka isn't even posted yet - and may not be this year.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Dec 15, 2013 9:30:54 GMT -5
The Yanks will be back with a passion next year. We will be challenged to hold them off for the division title. They will keep opening the checkbook and probably land Tanaka and I doubt they are though overall signing players. Kuroda and Tanaka alone will carry that team a long way. And Sabathia probably comes back some. No doubt they will miss Cano though, and Mo. Is there somewhere in Vegas where I can bet against this statement coming true?
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Post by GyIantosca on Dec 15, 2013 12:17:24 GMT -5
How pumped are you guys tomm is the Red Sox turn . The envy of baseball a team that won an didn't even start digging in the farm system yet. Wow I love BEn and that whole department. I love how LArry learned his lesson and let's him do his thing.
Out of all the guys in the FO we learn that Ben was the real power behind that department. I wonder how many decisions he made all these years. I credit the FO with never losing this guy to another team. Because we took our share of hits.
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 15, 2013 13:29:46 GMT -5
It's always nice to see the Sox list but the chat is more interesting at this point. I'm most interested to see where Workman is, if at all. Can't believe he's not on this sites top 10 after last year. I usually judge by who I'd be most upset to lose. Not in each case, but it works in most cases, especially with same position. Owens and Ball are only pitchers I'd rank ahead of him right now.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 16, 2013 11:57:38 GMT -5
Let's keep discussion of the Sox list in that specific thread.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Dec 21, 2013 17:02:24 GMT -5
Yankees www.baseballamerica.com/minors/2014-new-york-yankees-top-10-prospects/1. Gary Sanchez, c 2. Slade Heathcott, of 3. Mason Williams, of 4. J.R. Murphy, c (Michael Pineda) 5. Eric Jagielo, 3b 6. Aaron Judge, of 7. Ian Clarkin, lhp 8. Greg Bird, 1b 9. Luis Severino, rhp 10. Gosuke Katoh, 2b (Manny Banuelos ... some other guys) www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/schadenfreudeWhy are the Yankees signing so many outfielders if 3 of their top 10 prospects are OF?
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