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Boston Celtics 2014 Offseason Thread
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Post by ctfisher on Jul 2, 2014 11:25:11 GMT -5
I forgot they dealt their 1st this year to Atlanta before the pierce/KG deal. That's disappointing. Still, as we're not going to compete this year, I would be ok with taking on boozer's contract if it came with Butler and picks. We'd have some pretty ridiculous perimeter defense with any 3 of rondo, smart, bradley and butler out there, and boozer's actually an expiring at this point, which makes him somewhat useful to us. His cap figure is 16.8m this year- pretty much fits exactly with bogans' deal and the trade exception, although if they were to include Butler we'd have to include someone else to make the contracts add up I imagine. And the loss of Kidd and Livingston, along with Pierce in all likelihood, and possibly KG, with a completely capped out team, makes those picks more valuable. Is there any way that the nets aren't one of the league's 3 worst teams in 2 years when half their cap is taken up by williams and joe johnson?
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Post by jmei on Jul 2, 2014 11:33:36 GMT -5
Chicago is not trading Jimmy Butler (a promising young player with upside) just to offload Boozer's contract. They still have the amnesty available and can amnesty Boozer if they need cap space. Plus, you can't combine trade exceptions with other contracts, which means the Celtics would have to send salary back to Chicago (think guys like Brandon Bass) in order to take on Boozer's contract, which negates the whole purpose from Chicago's end.
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Post by texs31 on Jul 2, 2014 11:48:10 GMT -5
Clarification: Rajon Rondo is Amnesty Eligble (though of all the possible RR outcomes, that will NOT be one of them). Otherwise, that is correct. Amnesty rights go away once a player is traded.
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Post by jmei on Jul 2, 2014 12:30:08 GMT -5
After seeing what guys like Livingston and Meeks got, maybe the Celtics were just reading the market and noticing how many teams have globs of cap space. You could see a team making a run at Bradley that either missed out on the bigger names and thinks it's one piece short of the playoffs/contention (think Cleveland or Charlotte or Dallas) or thinks it can steal a guy with upside to build around (Philadelphia or Orlando). After all, if a team makes a run at a RFA, they do so with a monster offer (see: Eric Gordon, Roy Hibbert), so there was definitely a chance that some team offers Bradley 4/$36m or $40m or something ridiculous like that.
At worst, it's an overpay of a few million a year, which is undesirable but not crippling.
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Post by texs31 on Jul 2, 2014 12:50:31 GMT -5
Speaking of monster offer, rumors of a max offer for Hayward from Cleveland. Yikes.
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Jul 4, 2014 13:32:21 GMT -5
At worst, it's an overpay of a few million a year, which is undesirable but not crippling. Not even. Bradley wasn't getting less than $7 million, so $8 mill per is only marginally an overpay. I'm still not positive why the Celtics are holding onto him, but I don't think it's a bad contract by any means. Just not a great one. |
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Post by ctfisher on Jul 8, 2014 14:07:54 GMT -5
Chicago is not trading Jimmy Butler (a promising young player with upside) just to offload Boozer's contract. They still have the amnesty available and can amnesty Boozer if they need cap space. Plus, you can't combine trade exceptions with other contracts, which means the Celtics would have to send salary back to Chicago (think guys like Brandon Bass) in order to take on Boozer's contract, which negates the whole purpose from Chicago's end. I didn't know about the combining trade exceptions with salaries. However, their owner is notoriously cheap, so I doubt he wants to pay Boozer to play for another team, which he'd have to if they amnestied him. Probably couldn't get Butler, but I'd still be willing to take on salary in the short term if we can get picks/young players, that's the general idea for me. And there are plenty of teams that want cap room. At this stage, I think dealing Rondo around this season's deadline is the best move for us, because he's unlikely to re-sign unless this team outperforms expectations and/or acquires a star or near-star caliber player, which is looking increasingly unlikely. As long as taking on salary doesn't mess up our cap room more than a year or 2 down the road, I think we should take advantage of the fact that we're probably not competing in the short run and get as many assets out of this situation as we can |
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Post by texs31 on Jul 8, 2014 16:56:56 GMT -5
I'm such a sucker. I'm still trying to find ways to make a Love deal happen. Even to the point of speculating on Boston's rumored interest in Lance Stephenson being for the purposes of a 3-way deal that puts him in Minny.
Then again, the thing that Indy wants most from us is Rondo . . .
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 9, 2014 9:47:40 GMT -5
Celts just used the trade Exemption to get Zeller, Thornton's expiring deal and a 2016 first rd pick from Cleveland. Cavs also sent Jack to the Nets with another player. No doubt to clear cap space for Lebron. If Lebron goes there the pick will be late first, if not it could be a lottery pick. No word on if it's a protected pick. Either way, getting assets like Zeller and a first for that trade exemption is a sweet move by Danny. Hope Thornton doesn't take time from Bradley, Smart or a Young though. Zeller is a solid get.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 9, 2014 9:56:55 GMT -5
Pick is top 10 protected in 16-18 and unprotected in 2019. Does this mean they need to take it ne of those first 3 years if it falls outside the top 10 or can they roll it over if they want?
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Post by texs31 on Jul 9, 2014 10:11:45 GMT -5
Brilliant! Exactly the type of deal we should've made with that trade exception. RJP - you don't have the option (unless the deal is the option to swap but then it's pretty clear based on how high your pick is versus the one you can swap for). If it meets the protection criteria, it's yours.
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Post by ctfisher on Jul 9, 2014 10:14:13 GMT -5
Pick is top 10 protected in 16-18 and unprotected in 2019. Does this mean they need to take it ne of those first 3 years if it falls outside the top 10 or can they roll it over if they want? They can't choose to roll it over, if it falls outside the top 10 any of those 3 years, that's the pick we want. Now we just have to hope Lebron signs there and then they get blown up in 2019 when his contract will expire (assuming he doesn't have another opt out clause in there, which he will, but still) |
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Post by texs31 on Jul 9, 2014 10:38:11 GMT -5
BTW - I think it's obvious what Cleveland is doing here. They are clearing space for LeBron (should he choose to sign with them). Chris Broussard is reporting that they are also going after Ray Allen and Chris Mannix reminds that, if they get Bron, Kevin Love is a realistic possibility with Andrew Wiggins as an asset that Boston (and many other teams) can't top.
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Post by ctfisher on Jul 9, 2014 10:47:26 GMT -5
Praying they don't get Love- depending on next year's cap (which I think is going to be around $65m), we would have space to sign Love and extend Rondo, and have all of our picks, plus the young guys from this year's draft, and whoever we get next year. We've got about $22m on the books next year, give or take $1-$2m, and that's committed to 7 players. We could build a serious long term contender starting next summer. Danny Ainge is the man
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Post by texs31 on Jul 9, 2014 10:58:23 GMT -5
Okay, who else needs Cap Room. We have Bogans' non-guaranteed contract. Step right up.
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Post by jmei on Jul 9, 2014 11:14:38 GMT -5
Nice little deal, perfect use of the trade exception.
Zeller looked pretty good last year-- 13.7 pts and 9.7 rbs per 36, 15.4 PER. He's not much of a true rim protector, but he's a smart defender with some mobility and good size. He's on the older side (24 already) but this will be just his third year in the league. Could be a useful backup center on a contender, and he should get plenty of playing time this year to show what he's got.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Jul 9, 2014 11:47:10 GMT -5
Trader Danny with a steal.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 9, 2014 11:49:49 GMT -5
Praying they don't get Love- depending on next year's cap (which I think is going to be around $65m), we would have space to sign Love and extend Rondo, and have all of our picks, plus the young guys from this year's draft, and whoever we get next year. We've got about $22m on the books next year, give or take $1-$2m, and that's committed to 7 players. We could build a serious long term contender starting next summer. Danny Ainge is the man In your scenario you are ignoring Green and Wallace. Green has an opt out, which I guess it's possible he will exercise to get to FA a year early. After all if Bradley got 4/32 why can't Green? Wallace would have to be traded. Unlikely, and if so salary would be coming back and assets leaving. We won't have that cap space and if we did, so will other more attractive places. Boston has never signed a marque free agent in its history. Ever. |
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Post by ctfisher on Jul 9, 2014 12:27:04 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure you're wrong there, and wallace's deal expires after this year. I remember his deal being 3 for $30m and this is year 3. I got the figure from Chris Forsberg's rapid reaction on ESPN Boston, he had forgotten about Bradley it seems, but I accounted for that. Green could throw a wrench in there, but its possible we could deal him if he plays better this year. Regardless, we have bird rights on Rondo and picks to package with bad contracts should we want to open up cap space, that won't be a problem. If we give Love a max deal and then extend Rondo afterwards, it still works. There's no one else particularly good on the market next year anyway- we'd be filling out the roster with young guys and room exception vets and such anyway, so if we're capped out/approaching the tax line, who cares?
Correction: the Celtics have never signed a marquee free agent. Boston as a city has attracted a ton. The C's haven't cause they haven't had the cap space for the most part, or the right quality of team during the free agent era. Boston is one of the nation's biggest media markets, it's a pretty big (and awesome) city, and Love was a huge Larry Bird fan growing up. We have a great front office and well respected ownership, now like 11 1st rounders in the next 5 years, and Rondo in my scenario. That's pretty attractive. He's clearly considering it- what else explains the visit? If you were making $17m a year, would you come to Boston for vacation? I doubt he came for the Freedom Trail and Faneuil Hall. Pretty sure he'd definitely strongly consider us as a free agent, and I think he'd fit well with the current roster construction. If you want to dream big, Deandre Jordan's a free agent next offseason too- don't know if we could work around the cap to fit him in too, but if we could, we'd have a serious title contender that would have great perimeter defense, an elite shot blocker, and 2 legit all stars, with upside from Young and Smart, plus some picks even if we do have to trade some to carve out space. I could be dreaming, but it's definitely not outside the realm of possibility
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Post by jmei on Jul 9, 2014 12:40:51 GMT -5
Wallace has two more years on his contract. Forsberg just messed up (or assumed that they could move Wallace).
I agree that getting Love in free agency is probably unrealistic, but if the moves that get you to that possibility aren't too odious (all they really have to do is move Wallace's contract or use the stretch provision on it), you might as well try to open the cap space and take the chance. Stranger things have happened.
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Post by ctfisher on Jul 9, 2014 13:40:44 GMT -5
Yea I'd use the stretch on Wallace just to not have to see him play any more, even if we weren't thinking about the possibility of signing Love. But I also think the longer he goes without being traded, the more likely it becomes that we sign him. Obviously it depends a lot on what else happens this offseason, but the only team I can think of off the top of my head that would be a serious competitor next summer would be the Knicks, who will have tons of cap space, but probably not a very attractive roster. Maybe Miami, maybe Houston, and I'm sure there are a few others. But the Lakers are trying to win this year, and they probably won't have the flexibility next year, and they'd be the team I'd be most worried about, although Houston always seems to be super flexible, and attractive given the fit there. It's improbable, but I think if he hits free agency, Boston is one of his top 3 choices, and thats pretty promising anyway. Otherwise we can keep building through the draft, and with all these picks, that's not a bad strategy either
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Post by tizzle on Jul 9, 2014 14:28:36 GMT -5
The exception for Zeller and a 1 is a good deal, no question.
I was kind of hoping taking on salaries like this could be part of a trade up for #1 before the draft (say combined with 6, 17 and Sullinger or something), but obviously that didn't happen.
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Jul 9, 2014 19:07:04 GMT -5
BTW - I think it's obvious what Cleveland is doing here. They are clearing space for LeBron (should he choose to sign with them). Chris Broussard is reporting that they are also going after Ray Allen and Chris Mannix reminds that, if they get Bron, Kevin Love is a realistic possibility with Andrew Wiggins as an asset that Boston (and many other teams) can't top. You should stop paying attention to Chris Broussard... |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 10, 2014 9:46:34 GMT -5
There will be plenty of teams with the ability to sign Love next offseason. When a team has bird rights on a player they still get a cap hold against them so they cannot use all available cap space then sign Rondo with the bird right provision. They can delay signing him if his cap hold is less than what they will ultimately give him, but it's not as advantageous as many believe.
Danny and the owners and fans and media need to be patient. I believe Ainge will continue to look bug be patient as well. I think those 2016 & 2018 Nets picks (esp 16) are close to touchable or at the very least golden assets. NJ will really struggle in 2015-2016 - they are already screwed cap wise with 3 (questionable) players and word is they will stay under the tax that year as well.
Patience is key though. Love is the type of guy you try to get though. Top 10 player and 25 years old. I like he's on him, but we don't have the real attractive pieces to get him because they want real young players. You need to take time to develop those. NBA GMs are unfortunately getting smarter and they realize first rd picks are nice but not as valuable as real players. If Minny took a bunch of 1st rounders, they need to wait years to take some of the picks then years to see those players start to produce. You don't trade a 25 year old super star for lottery tickets that won't pay for 3-6 years at the earliest. If they pay at all.
I just don't want to see Danny trade assets and tie up cap on guys like Bradley and Green any more. I would not use the stretch on Wallace unless you had to in order to sign a guy like Love. Be patient and let him expire or use his expiring deal in a trade for a top player next offseason.
The goal is to create a Championship team not a playoff team. We can be patient and enjoy watching the process as well as a great young coach and young players develop. Best case scenario is the young guys develop and we can sign Love and resign Rondo next offseason and keep the picks. We'd have a great team with a ton of first round picks to use to trade or just keep fueling the roster with good cheap players.
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Post by ctfisher on Jul 10, 2014 9:59:55 GMT -5
The goal is to create a Championship team not a playoff team. We can be patient and enjoy watching the process as well as a great young coach and young players develop. Best case scenario is the young guys develop and we can sign Love and resign Rondo next offseason and keep the picks. We'd have a great team with a ton of first round picks to use to trade or just keep fueling the roster with good cheap players. This is literally exactly what I said... I don't know how you think we do that without using the stretch on Wallace though. And yea plenty of teams will have the cap space to sign Love next offseason, but how many of them are attractive, or as attractive as Boston? Most of the real contenders have capped themselves out for the foreseeable future, and other teams don't have the kind of front office track record as us. Maybe Miami if the big 3 break up, but then it's only attractive cause it's Miami. Apart from them, where do you think Love would go over Boston, particularly if Rondo is still here? Also, with the amount of cap space they're likely to have next year, they could give Love his max deal and still have several mill in cap space, likely even with Rondo's cap hold. Then they re-sign him, use the MLE and room exceptions to fill out roster space. If we have to deal picks to get other teams to eat salary for us, so be it- it's worth it to get 2 star players on the same roster with a bunch of young talent. |
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