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Post by bsout2 on Jun 5, 2014 10:41:29 GMT -5
I'm worried there is nothing to do right now to fix the OF and the season may be over as a result. Get ready for some jaw dropping numbers, during the Cleveland series, the OF went a combined 5 for 35, 1 BB, 1 RBI, 18 SO, & 20 LOB.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 5, 2014 12:52:55 GMT -5
Other than that one realistic possibility could be that come August 1st, the outfield becomes Victorino in RF, Bradley in CF, and Mookie Betts in LF or some variation of that alignment. Holt LF, Mookie CF, Victorino RF. You could be right, although I have trouble seeing Holt handle LF. I get visions of Sean Rodriguez for some reason. At this point, if the Sox had a legit CF, I'd prefer JBJ back in AAA where he belongs, but at this point, Mookie is very inexperienced in the OF and I can't imagine they'd stick him in CF. With him, Holt, and whoever they got in RF with Victorino down, not only would you have the weakest hitting OF, but you'd also have the worst defensive OF as well. Man, once upon a time, the Sox had outfield trios of Lewis, Speaker, and Hooper, Williams, Piersall, and Jensen, Yaz, Smith, and Tony C, Rice, Lynn, and Evans, and Manny, Damon, and Trot. Now they have this.... Yuck. Worst I've ever seen them have, even worse than Greenwell, Hatcher, and Zupcic.
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Post by sarasoxer on Jun 5, 2014 13:59:23 GMT -5
Holt LF, Mookie CF, Victorino RF. You could be right, although I have trouble seeing Holt handle LF. I get visions of Sean Rodriguez for some reason. At this point, if the Sox had a legit CF, I'd prefer JBJ back in AAA where he belongs, but at this point, Mookie is very inexperienced in the OF and I can't imagine they'd stick him in CF. With him, Holt, and whoever they got in RF with Victorino down, not only would you have the weakest hitting OF, but you'd also have the worst defensive OF as well. Man, once upon a time, the Sox had outfield trios of Lewis, Speaker, and Hooper, Williams, Piersall, and Jensen, Yaz, Smith, and Tony C, Rice, Lynn, and Evans, and Manny, Damon, and Trot. Now they have this.... Yuck. Worst I've ever seen them have, even worse than Greenwell, Hatcher, and Zupcic. Yup! How many times have these thoughts coursed thru my mind.....and don't forget Carlos " I have a swing from God" Quintana....
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Post by mattpicard on Jun 5, 2014 14:18:53 GMT -5
Nava talked to Rob Bradford on WEEI about his tough season so far. Here are some highlights I pulled from it: - “I was aware of where I stood… or at least where I thought I stood," (on going into 2014 after his 2013 season). - Did he notice anything off in ST? Approach was the same as always. “I’ve learned enough from the road I’ve taken to get here what works for me and what doesn’t… I’d be foolish to try to change that... I was off and on.. not as comfortable as I wanted to be… unfortunate that’s how things started in the season. I like to think I’d have got things going [if not for being sent down].” - Three weeks isn’t a very long time. Did you feel during those weeks that you were in a rush to get going? “I felt like I was in a position where I had some room to work through stuff… I’m understanding now that things were different than I thought.” [Note he didn't say this like he was mad at the team -- just that at the time, he didn't realize why, with the whole team struggling, he was a in a situation where he was one of the more practical options for the Sox to make a change with.] “Maybe I was pressing more than I wanted to, but I never was going through it like oh great, what in the world is going on. It was just frustrating that things weren’t clicking as quickly as I wanted to. But baseball’s a sport where you can have extended periods of frustration.” - On being sent down and being able to easily work on things? “When you get sent down and you’re in a position where you’re like, wow, I didn’t see this coming… Well, you know, I had to take responsibility that I didn’t play as well as I wanted to and if I played better, this wouldn’t be happening… I got there [to AAA] and said it’s just time to work, and, I guess becoming a better player. It helped having a hitting coach who’d seen me play before so we definitely worked on some mechanical stuff... I”m pretty hard on myself… I had to keep telling myself this is a process to get where I want to be. - Do you feel through all of this, do you feel you’re the same player you were in 2013 right now? "I feel that I can be that same player… I don’t want to be the same player as last year, I’d love to be a better player." He also noted that he handles these struggles in a quieter manner than many other players.
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danr
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Post by danr on Jun 5, 2014 14:23:25 GMT -5
Team management must have counted on nothing going wrong in the OF. They counted on Gomes/Nava having the same types of seasons they had last year. They counted on Victorino not getting hurt. They counted on Bradley hitting better than he did at AAA, or, at least as good. All were wrong assumptions, and there was no backup plan. The replacements weren't at Pawtucket. Sizemore can't be counted in any plan because no one knew what he would do. The clock is running out on him, and that's sad.
They also counted on Middlebrooks doing much better, and not getting hurt, neither of which came true. They probably expected Pedroia to hit something like he used to, instead of the mediocre performance at the bat we are seeing. They also expected Napoli to be a solid clean-up hitter, and that was a reasonable assumption. His injury was freakish.
So, either they were really off their noggins with their planning for this team, or they were prepared to write off the season. Neither is acceptable.
If Holt keeps hitting and Napoli recovers then Holt is the left fielder. If Betts hits at Pawtucket for a few weeks, or maybe less, then he is the CF. Who knows? is the RF. Too bad about Brentz.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 5, 2014 14:45:09 GMT -5
Maybe we can pry Ichiro away from the Yankees. Never thought I'd say that this year.
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Post by Guidas on Jun 5, 2014 15:05:35 GMT -5
Nava talked to Rob Bradford on WEEI about his tough season so far. Here are some highlights I pulled from it: - “I was aware of where I stood… or at least where I thought I stood," (on going into 2014 after his 2013 season). - Did he notice anything off in ST? Approach was the same as always. “I’ve learned enough from the road I’ve taken to get here what works for me and what doesn’t… I’d be foolish to try to change that... I was off and on.. not as comfortable as I wanted to be… unfortunate that’s how things started in the season. I like to think I’d have got things going [if not for being sent down].” - Three weeks isn’t a very long time. Did you feel during those weeks that you were in a rush to get going? “I felt like I was in a position where I had some room to work through stuff… I’m understanding now that things were different than I thought.” [Note he didn't say this like he was mad at the team -- just that at the time, he didn't realize why, with the whole team struggling, he was a in a situation where he was one of the more practical options for the Sox to make a change with.]“Maybe I was pressing more than I wanted to, but I never was going through it like oh great, what in the world is going on. It was just frustrating that things weren’t clicking as quickly as I wanted to. But baseball’s a sport where you can have extended periods of frustration.” - On being sent down and being able to easily work on things? “When you get sent down and you’re in a position where you’re like, wow, I didn’t see this coming… Well, you know, I had to take responsibility that I didn’t play as well as I wanted to and if I played better, this wouldn’t be happening… I got there [to AAA] and said it’s just time to work, and, I guess becoming a better player. It helped having a hitting coach who’d seen me play before so we definitely worked on some mechanical stuff... I”m pretty hard on myself… I had to keep telling myself this is a process to get where I want to be. - Do you feel through all of this, do you feel you’re the same player you were in 2013 right now? "I feel that I can be that same player… I don’t want to be the same player as last year, I’d love to be a better player." He also noted that he handles these struggles in a quieter manner than many other players. Really doesn't sound like a guy who thought he was very far from righting the ship. Also sounds like he's as mystified on Farrell's Gomes love - at least by implication - as everyone else.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 5, 2014 15:07:12 GMT -5
I just listened. There is definitely a lot of quiet resentment there.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jun 5, 2014 15:29:21 GMT -5
Team management must have counted on nothing going wrong in the OF. They counted on Gomes/Nava having the same types of seasons they had last year. They counted on Victorino not getting hurt. They counted on Bradley hitting better than he did at AAA, or, at least as good. All were wrong assumptions, and there was no backup plan. The replacements weren't at Pawtucket. Sizemore can't be counted in any plan because no one knew what he would do. The clock is running out on him, and that's sad. They also counted on Middlebrooks doing much better, and not getting hurt, neither of which came true. They probably expected Pedroia to hit something like he used to, instead of the mediocre performance at the bat we are seeing. They also expected Napoli to be a solid clean-up hitter, and that was a reasonable assumption. His injury was freakish. So, either they were really off their noggins with their planning for this team, or they were prepared to write off the season. Neither is acceptable. If Holt keeps hitting and Napoli recovers then Holt is the left fielder. If Betts hits at Pawtucket for a few weeks, or maybe less, then he is the CF. Who knows? is the RF. Too bad about Brentz. I see where you're coming from, I'd like to make a few points: Middlebrooks is starting to get a rep - for me - of being somewhat injury prone. That doesn't mean it's a given, he may come back healthy for the next ten years. I also wonder if he didn't get hurt a little earlier than he let on. April and March were quite good, then he fell off a cliff. It would be nice to see the guy stay in the lineup for a while. No way to account for Carp and Napoli both being hurt. That's probably not something the team could have expected, that they'd lose all three. I do think Ortiz and Pedroia will both pick it up as the season goes on. But Ross is just about done, I'm afraid, and Pierzynski is Pierzynski. He's a one-dimensional hitter and mediocre behind the plate. That still has some value. As for the outfield, Bradley will figure it out, I believe. But I'm surprised there wasn't better contingency planning around Victorino, 122 games last year was a red flag for me, and a little less enthusiasm about Sizemore's great spring. There's a reason why hitting a baseball is regarded as one of the toughest things in sport. Being away from the game for 2 1/2 years, and with the injuries he's had, it was way too much to expect a return to all-star form. Add to that the slow starts from the now shattered platoon of Nava/Gomes and you've got this result. And while Brentz might have been expected to act as a backup, he's on the DL also! It doesn't stop. I think you're too harsh in your assessment of management, though. They've built in some redundancy in the infield, but that's largely been shot through by injuries and under-performance.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Jun 5, 2014 15:58:22 GMT -5
Man, once upon a time, the Sox had outfield trios of Lewis, Speaker, and Hooper, Williams, Piersall, and Jensen, Yaz, Smith, and Tony C, Rice, Lynn, and Evans, and Manny, Damon, and Trot. Now they have this.... Yuck. Worst I've ever seen them have, even worse than Greenwell, Hatcher, and Zupcic. 1973. MLB: Carl Yastrzemski (at 1B due to the glut), Reggie Smith, Dwight Evans, Ben Oglivie, Rick Miller, and Tommy Harper. AAA: Juan Beniquez AA: Jim Rice, Fred Lynn Admittedly, the low minors were barren.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 5, 2014 16:00:43 GMT -5
Man, once upon a time, the Sox had outfield trios of Lewis, Speaker, and Hooper, Williams, Piersall, and Jensen, Yaz, Smith, and Tony C, Rice, Lynn, and Evans, and Manny, Damon, and Trot. Now they have this.... Yuck. Worst I've ever seen them have, even worse than Greenwell, Hatcher, and Zupcic. 1973. MLB: Carl Yastrzemski (at 1B due to the glut), Reggie Smith, Dwight Evans, Ben Oglivie, Rick Miller, and Tommy Harper. AAA: Juan Beniquez AA: Jim Rice, Fred Lynn Admittedly, the low minors were barren. Wasn't Bernie Carbo there too?
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Jun 5, 2014 16:12:19 GMT -5
Bradley: given his minor league record and defense, he gets just about all year to (im)prove himself. You might consider benching him in September if they're in a pennant race.
Victorino (once he's back): Given his 2013 and defense, he gets until the trading deadline before you think about an upgrade.
Nava: Needs to get at least a month and ideally 6 weeks of platooning with Gomes to re-establish himself. If it's still not happening, on to Plan B.
Sizemore: Optioned when Victorino returns, and your bench is Ross, Holt, Middlebrooks, Gomes. Maybe he gets it going in AAA. [Insert your own equally likely possibility, involving some combination of yourself, famous good-looking people, winning lottery tickets, and benevolent alien technology and/or Godzilla.]
Holt: A temporary option in LF if Nava doesn't bounce back.
If it gets to be mid-July and you still need an OF, you think about Betts versus a trade. It's too soon to speculate on what or who might be best.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Jun 5, 2014 16:14:41 GMT -5
1973. MLB: Carl Yastrzemski (at 1B due to the glut), Reggie Smith, Dwight Evans, Ben Oglivie, Rick Miller, and Tommy Harper. AAA: Juan Beniquez AA: Jim Rice, Fred Lynn Admittedly, the low minors were barren. Wasn't Bernie Carbo there too? October 26, 1973 Traded Reggie Smith and Ken Tatum to the St. Louis Cardinals. Received Bernie Carbo and Rick Wise.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jun 5, 2014 16:26:53 GMT -5
Carbo came out of the Reds organization.
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Post by tonyc on Jun 5, 2014 18:12:55 GMT -5
Loved those 70's Sox teams- until Ortiz, I still thought the most clutch atbat for Sox was Bernie fouling off unhittable gas from Rawley Eastwick until he smoked a game tieing 3 run homer in game 6 of 1975 series in the eight inning. Again, I'll mention for those of you who go back to that era, or those interested, an amazing book on tape about the whole '75 season and world series, with lots of Sox emphasis- The Long Ball by adelman (sp?)- great dramatic actors, lots of inside stories, including the close relationship Carbo still had with Sparky Anderson at the time, and Luis Tiant's parents from Cuba over at his home.
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Post by marrcus on Jun 5, 2014 19:44:12 GMT -5
"Interesting that Mike Hazen cancelled a radio appearance this am" ----------------------------------------------------------------------
I listened between the 6:45-7:45 hour and "D&C" promoted this appearance heavily. They probably aren't to pleased he canceled. The knives were being sharpened.
What would Hazen need to do in-person in Detroit? I think the chances of getting an OF before the deadline is really quite remote.
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Post by marrcus on Jun 5, 2014 23:07:55 GMT -5
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Post by trotsdirtyhat on Jun 6, 2014 9:00:29 GMT -5
This season I think you have to stick with Bradley Jr. in CF because of his smooth, excellent defense (even with his poor OPS) and hope Victorino returns as a vaguely familiar form of what he was in 2013, however unlikely.
Left field is the area to focus on for improvement. Most of the options out there are marginal at best so I think it would be wise to upgrade significantly or not at all. Easier said than done, I know, but I would take a look at Carlos Gonzalez, considering we have the payroll space, the prospects, and the need. Would Colorado trade him? That's another story. He's not playing all that well this season (and he has been injured) so it might make more sense for them to trade him when he's openly displaying that he's one of the best outfielders in the game.
I'm intrigued by Daniel Carbonell, but I have no idea what the Red Sox interest level is and how MLB-ready he is. 5-tool players are rare, which is why I think he may be worth rolling the dice on if he is indeed ready to play. I see him as an X-factor in this equation; an alternate mid-season solution that does not cost prospects or draft picks as a quality player would during free agency.
It's unfortunate that Miami is contending for the division this year, because I was ready to hop onboard the Giancarlo Stanton train.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Jun 6, 2014 16:39:49 GMT -5
I don't think we're going to be able to fix the outfield this season. I think we should just stick with bradley if we're pretty far out come July.
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Post by godot on Jun 6, 2014 16:50:24 GMT -5
Hmm. Could it be the small sample of PAs, which, until last night was 57 vs. RHP? Or maybe it's the .143 BABIP over that same period along with a 6.6% BB rate/10% K rate? - and especially when all that is compared to Gomes' stats vs RHP, if only in the same small sample. Besides, isn't this the place where you get splashed with "small samples are irrelevant" holy water when you walk in? At the very least give him 100-120 or so ABs vs RHP to see if it looks more like he's a victim of bad luck, bad approach or bad swing. Sorry, but good coaches can identify flaws quickly. The small sample argument is bogus when there are professionals that can observe a hitter or pitcher. And seems this is the case with Nava. And the comparison with Gomes argument is also bogus and a smoke screen, basically saying he does not suck as much, therefore, he is "better", whoopee. Give me a knife so I can shoot myself.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 6, 2014 18:39:57 GMT -5
Sorry, but good coaches can identify flaws quickly. The small sample argument is bogus when there are professionals that can observe a hitter or pitcher. And seems this is the case with Nava. And the comparison with Gomes argument is also bogus and a smoke screen, basically saying he does not suck as much, therefore, he is "better", whoopee. Give me a knife so I can shoot myself. Good coaches can also identify that there's no way in hell that Gomes is going to be good vs. RHP.
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Post by jdb on Jun 6, 2014 19:05:08 GMT -5
I don't think we're going to be able to fix the outfield this season. I think we should just stick with bradley if we're pretty far out come July. I'm afraid your right. I think with the new playoff format there won't be any trades until late July. The only team I could see acting quickly is the Dodgers and that's to unload dead weight. By the deadline I think Mookie will be ready and helping out an we should know if Victorino is going to help.
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Post by glassox on Jun 7, 2014 20:41:04 GMT -5
The one player i would like the Sox to look into is Jay Bruce. I understand that their T.V. deal ends in 2016 and they are loading contracts like Bailey, and Votto for after 2016. So i don't see it as payroll concerns but he, imo would get them the highest return in trade.
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Post by oleary25 on Jun 9, 2014 3:05:37 GMT -5
This may sound like an odd suggestion but why not have Cecchini start taking reps in LF ? While the power maybe not there he can get on base at a high percentage and also has doubles power. He maybe a good internal solution to the problem. He's definitely a good enough athlete to handle it in my opinion.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 9, 2014 6:39:14 GMT -5
This may sound like an suggestion odd but why not have Cecchini start taking reps in LF ? While the power maybe not there he can get on base with doubles power. He maybe a good internal solution to the problem. He's definitely a good enough athlete. Because his bat is not ready to contribute in the majors. And it's probably not the best situation to throw him into the fire if he can't handle it.
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