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The Rotation Going Forward
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Post by bostonian1 on Jun 21, 2014 21:43:29 GMT -5
My understanding is that Peavy and Doubront should go away via trade taking into account the way they are pitching and even more the better way the Younster are pitching now.
Doubront´s ups and downs and the inconsistency of Peavy make the desition easy. But there are others serious problems out there ( Lack of defense for instance ).
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Jun 21, 2014 21:57:37 GMT -5
Or we could just keep Doubront and move him to the pen, for good this time.
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Post by caseytins on Jun 21, 2014 23:50:39 GMT -5
How about the offense going forward?? Sorry, but I think it's a valid question at this point. Typically, you can never have enough pitching, but who would you give up (and at what cost) to give this lineup a boost?
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ericmvan
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Supposed to be working on something more important
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Post by ericmvan on Jun 22, 2014 0:04:25 GMT -5
How about the offense going forward?? Sorry, but I think it's a valid question at this point. Typically, you can never have enough pitching, but who would you give up (and at what cost) to give this lineup a boost? I took a look at the OF WAR/G leader board, and the fact is that there's nothing that jumps out as a realistic upgrade. To get back on topic, there appears to be a consensus for this: 1) Option Workman when Buchholz is activated to start Wednesday. RDLR stays in the rotation and Doubront goes to the pen. 2) There's no position player begging to be recalled to expand the bench back to its normal contingent of four, so they can take their time (perhaps until Middlebrooks has finished his rehab) dealing Breslow (or Capuano). 3) Work on a Peavy deal so that Workman can be recalled, but there's no urgency to give him away. Be willing to eat a large portion of the salary, and hope that you can get a couple of teams interested and hence get a decent prospect for him.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jun 22, 2014 1:46:17 GMT -5
How about the offense going forward?? Sorry, but I think it's a valid question at this point. Typically, you can never have enough pitching, but who would you give up (and at what cost) to give this lineup a boost? I took a look at the OF WAR/G leader board, and the fact is that there's nothing that jumps out as a realistic upgrade. To get back on topic, there appears to be a consensus for this: 1) Option Workman when Buchholz is activated to start Wednesday. RDLR stays in the rotation and Doubront goes to the pen. 2) There's no position player begging to be recalled to expand the bench back to its normal contingent of four, so they can take their time (perhaps until Middlebrooks has finished his rehab) dealing Breslow (or Capuano). 3) Work on a Peavy deal so that Workman can be recalled, but there's no urgency to give him away. Be willing to eat a large portion of the salary, and hope that you can get a couple of teams interested and hence get a decent prospect for him. And if #3 happened in just over 30 days, we'd have gained a year of Workman's services.
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Post by ibsmith85 on Jun 22, 2014 11:28:45 GMT -5
Or we could just keep Doubront and move him to the pen, for good this time. I agree, Im all for Doubrount taking Breslow or Capuano's spot in the bullpen. (Preferably Breslow)
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Post by mgoetze on Jun 22, 2014 11:33:39 GMT -5
Or we could just keep Doubront and move him to the pen, for good this time. I agree, Im all for Doubrount taking Breslow or Capuano's spot in the bullpen. (Preferably Breslow) In a vacuum, sure. The question really is, how much higher is Doubront's trade value than Breslow's or Capuano's? He is still cost-controlled and if another team thinks he is a viable starter then he can fetch a decent return, unlike the other two.
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Post by mgoetze on Jun 22, 2014 11:43:53 GMT -5
In Rubby's 5th start, he improved his SIERA from 3.08 to 3.07, and he is still leading all Sox starters in that statistic.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Jun 22, 2014 12:02:23 GMT -5
I agree, Im all for Doubrount taking Breslow or Capuano's spot in the bullpen. (Preferably Breslow) In a vacuum, sure. The question really is, how much higher is Doubront's trade value than Breslow's or Capuano's? He is still cost-controlled and if another team thinks he is a viable starter then he can fetch a decent return, unlike the other two. Doubront gives you a guy in your pen who can start a game if needed, and contributes to the overall starting pitching depth. If they trade him and Peavy, then Wright or Webster is your 7th starter, and that's starting to look a little thin. I think his value to us as a long man and injury insurance is greater than the value of the prospect you might get for him, given the depth of the system.
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Post by terriblehondo on Jun 22, 2014 13:22:38 GMT -5
The depth of the system IS pitching. So if you are going to trade. Trade from strength. Behind Wright and Webster there are Barnes, Owens, Couch and Johnson not far off.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Jun 23, 2014 8:15:09 GMT -5
I agree with eric. Doubront's value in a trade is not as high as it was in the offseason. Keep him.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Jun 23, 2014 8:35:21 GMT -5
Breslow has performed well in high-leverage situations. Not sure he came into this year 100pct. I give him a mulligan on his first half. I think Peavy and Capuano should get dealt. Doubront to the pen. Rubby and Workman stay in the rotation. If Buchholz falters, Ranaudo takes his spot.
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Post by jmei on Jun 24, 2014 7:30:47 GMT -5
In April, Chris Capuano had 14.1 IP, 9.42 K/9, 1.26 BB/9, 0.00 HR/9, 0.00 ERA, 1.41 FIP, 2.31 xFIP.
Since then: 17.1 IP, 7.27 K/9, 6.75 BB/9, 1.56 HR/9, 8.31 ERA, 6.15 FIP, 5.61 xFIP.
The right move, when Workman returns from suspension, is absolutely to DFA Capuano and move Doubront to the bullpen. Given his recent success, you probably keep De La Rosa in the majors and option Workman, but I could see it the other way around if they want to manage Rubby's innings totals.
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Post by tonyc on Jun 24, 2014 11:04:32 GMT -5
Right on, as nearly always jmei. I would personally have a strong preference to keep Rubby in the rotation for now if choosing for two reasons. He has a higher ceiling than Workman, but additionally Workman has shown not only more command, but an ability to be shuttled in roles without having a setback. Delarosa, while now at a more advanced stage than Webster a year ago, might be a bit closer to him on the vulnerability spectrum than Workman, and I'd hate to see the momentum he has generated towards actualizing his full potential interupted. Let him further reinforce this concept of working primarily off his fastball, work on adding more breaking stuff, and then when his innings need more limitation act accordingly.
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Post by iakovos11 on Jun 24, 2014 12:13:07 GMT -5
Because a one game sample size that contradicts his very solid body of work all year (and most of last year) should cause the front office to completely change their mind on this guy?
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Post by mgoetze on Jun 24, 2014 12:43:41 GMT -5
After witnessing yesterday's debacle, I think it would also be wise to see what we can get in trade for Lackey. Good thing you don't work for the Red Sox ... what an awful overreaction that would be.
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Post by dmaineah on Jun 24, 2014 13:04:48 GMT -5
Trade or waive Chris Capuano, rotation should be; Lester Lackey Peavey Doubront Buchholz. Workman & De La Rosa should both be in the Pen. This should all happen by this weekend for the Yankee series.
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Post by ctfisher on Jun 24, 2014 13:49:15 GMT -5
Why would we send RDLR and Workman to the pen over Doubront and/or Peavy? Doubront has proven he's nothing more than a 5th starter at best for now, and I don't see a much higher ceiling for him, given his inconsistencies. Send him to the pen. At the very least one of de la Rosa and Workman should stay in the rotation, and I would love to deal Peavy if possible to get them both in there. I think, especially if we eat some of his salary, Peavy could be quite attractive to an NL club looking for a solid back of the rotation guy, although I can't imagine we'd get too much for him at this stage.
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Post by jmei on Jun 24, 2014 15:33:44 GMT -5
At this point, if you're in the camp that says KEEP LACKEY, you need to ask yourself WHY? ...because 2015?
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danr
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Post by danr on Jun 24, 2014 15:39:11 GMT -5
I agree Lackey should be traded. He has real value to a contending team a little shy in the SP department. The Sox probably cannot get a starting major leaguer for him, but they might be able to some promising minor league talent.
Peavy also has value. Probably not as much as Lackey, but with a good team he would be a better pitcher.
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Post by jmei on Jun 24, 2014 15:56:39 GMT -5
Here's why I don't think Lackey has much trade value: the team acquiring him has no guarantee that he'll play for the league minimum in 2015. They would have to try to sign him to a multi-year extension or risk him just sitting out 2015 and thus being just a three-(two-?)month rental. As such, teams might be hesitant to make the sort of trade offer that I would deem sufficient to make it worth trading Lackey.
Lackey presumably feels more of a sense of loyalty for Boston, considering that they were the ones who agreed to his original contract, paid him while he was having Tommy John (and for the stretch before he had surgery where he was awful), he's lived here for four years, won a championship here, etc. etc. He may very well play out next season for the league-minimum in Boston due to this sense of loyalty, but he is much less likely to if he's traded elsewhere.
In other words, he's worth more to the Red Sox than he would be to a non-Boston team, because he's more likely to play for the minimum in Boston than he would be almost anywhere else. Whatever the odds you think his sitting out 2015 are, those odds are higher if he's still in Boston than if he's not in Boston, for the reasons I mention above. For obvious reasons, it's really tough to trade a player who is more valuable to you than to a potential acquirer.
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Post by okin15 on Jun 24, 2014 16:00:10 GMT -5
I agree Lackey should be traded. He has real value to a contending team a little shy in the SP department. The Sox probably cannot get a starting major leaguer for him, but they might be able to some promising minor league talent. Peavy also has value. Probably not as much as Lackey, but with a good team he would be a better pitcher. Better than Peavy with Sox, right? Not better than Lackey! Lackey has tremendous value to the Red Sox in 2015, not only as a pitcher, but as an anchor for a rotation that could well include 4 youngsters (if/when Buchholz gets hurt). If Lester leaves (and I wouldn't want to overpay for him just 'cause Buchholz is prone and Doubront stinks) then the Sox could have RDLR, Workman, and 1-2 of Webster, Ranaudo, and Wright in the 2015 rotation. To risk this, they really ought to get RDLR and Workman more rotation time this summer. I'd like to see Peavy shipped off ASAP, and Doubie moved to the 'pen. Would rather not trade him, as I still think he goes through ST as a starter no matter what, and converts to 2015 relief only once we are comfortable with the remaining cast (or he shows himself the door via poor performance).
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Post by iakovos11 on Jun 24, 2014 17:42:04 GMT -5
At this point, if you're in the camp that says KEEP LACKEY, you need to ask yourself WHY? ...because 2015? Exactly. If you think the Sox can compete next year, then Lackey has a very good chance of being and important part of the rotation. Hopefully not as the #2 guy, but as a very cost controlled #3 or #4. That could be a very strong rotation. We don't need to sell off every older vet that might have some value.
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Post by mredsox89 on Jun 24, 2014 17:46:41 GMT -5
If you feel your team can contend in the next year or two, selling every piece is ludicrous. You only do that if you believe you are multiple years away from contending, when guys will be 2+ years older.
There is plenty core talent on this team to think it contends and is a legit contender as soon as 2015, and trading away a guy who can likely be near the top of the rotation for pennies next year makes little sense. Similarly, even if they think they are out of it in 2014, if they feel they can sign Lester, you don't trade him purely because you are out of it this season. The Sox are not in the position of the Cubs where it's probably 3-5 years before their roster can contend, and therefore they dump any upcoming FA's
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Jun 24, 2014 18:47:00 GMT -5
What kind of cognitive dissonance is going on here? Every game thread is filled with wanton desire for the team to tank what's left of the season - in the name of securing a future draft pick. Honestly, it's time to poop or get off the pot. Read the post above yours. He makes a lot of sense. We're not going to be cellar-dwellars for 3-5 years. Keep Lester, Lackey and Koji. Build a staff around them.
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