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6/12-6/15 Red Sox vs. Indians Series Thread
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Post by Guidas on Jun 12, 2014 21:35:56 GMT -5
Great win. Toronto loses. Only 8 back now. One game at a time.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jun 12, 2014 23:25:04 GMT -5
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Post by brianthetaoist on Jun 13, 2014 5:10:31 GMT -5
You know, JBJ, Herrera, etc, are issues, no doubt, but it's really nearly the entire team that's underperforming. Looking at the stats, you can point to Napoli and say, "he's having a nice year so far," but a lot of that is still pre-injury. You can probably say the same about Bogaerts, although his .790 OPS probably isn't actually higher than the Sox were projecting (doing well on OBP, probably underperforming so far on SLG). And outside of that, only the much-maligned AJ Placeholder is even performing up to expectations. Big Papi is over 100 points of OPS off of last year, Victorino has been terrible in every way, Pedroia is a powerless 340 OBP slap hitter (and extremely concerning to me long-term), Ross is awful, Nava has been putrid (although he's making a hard charge at the Mendoza Line now!) ... it's really been a system-wide collapse offensively. The guys who were supposed to be good are mediocre at best, and the guys who were supposed to be mediocre are terrible.
The only exception, of course, is Brock Holt.
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Post by ancientsoxfogey on Jun 13, 2014 6:14:14 GMT -5
And then there's Koji.
This is getting ridiculous. After 4 of the most dominant seasons by a reliever in the history of the sport, the guy is getting BETTER. Instead of being virtually impossible to score off other than by HR, through the first 1/3 + of this season it has been LITERALLY impossible to score off him in any other way.
Sandy Koufax was an easy inductee into the HOF based primarily on 5 dominant seasons as a starter. Now granted, 300 innings per season of dominance is a lot more impressive than Koji has turned in. But how much longer does Koji have to turn out performance like this before whispers about HOF qualifications start?
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Post by soxfanatic on Jun 13, 2014 7:07:24 GMT -5
Edward Mujica allows a whopping .617 wOBA on his fastball.
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Post by klostrophobic on Jun 13, 2014 9:42:29 GMT -5
And then there's Koji. This is getting ridiculous. After 4 of the most dominant seasons by a reliever in the history of the sport, the guy is getting BETTER. Instead of being virtually impossible to score off other than by HR, through the first 1/3 + of this season it has been LITERALLY impossible to score off him in any other way. Sandy Koufax was an easy inductee into the HOF based primarily on 5 dominant seasons as a starter. Now granted, 300 innings per season of dominance is a lot more impressive than Koji has turned in. But how much longer does Koji have to turn out performance like this before whispers about HOF qualifications start? Maybe 10 more years will do it.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 13, 2014 9:45:39 GMT -5
I said it the other day: I think JBJ is what he is already. I don't think there's much projection left with him. He is a gold glove caliber centerfielder and no. 9 hitter. That's ridiculous.
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Post by feez732 on Jun 13, 2014 9:47:19 GMT -5
You know, JBJ, Herrera, etc, are issues, no doubt, but it's really nearly the entire team that's underperforming. Looking at the stats, you can point to Napoli and say, "he's having a nice year so far," but a lot of that is still pre-injury. You can probably say the same about Bogaerts, although his .790 OPS probably isn't actually higher than the Sox were projecting (doing well on OBP, probably underperforming so far on SLG). And outside of that, only the much-maligned AJ Placeholder is even performing up to expectations. Big Papi is over 100 points of OPS off of last year, Victorino has been terrible in every way, Pedroia is a powerless 340 OBP slap hitter (and extremely concerning to me long-term), Ross is awful, Nava has been putrid (although he's making a hard charge at the Mendoza Line now!) ... it's really been a system-wide collapse offensively. The guys who were supposed to be good are mediocre at best, and the guys who were supposed to be mediocre are terrible. The only exception, of course, is Brock Holt. While I'll agree that the problem isn't just a single player or even a few players, the bolded point seems a bit ridiculous to me. He's third in wOBA among shortstops and on pace for roughly a 4 win season. Anyone projecting more than that from a 21 year old rookie was overly optimistic (to put it delicately).
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Post by mgoetze on Jun 13, 2014 9:47:30 GMT -5
Maybe 10 more years will do it. It would be much easier if, like in football, they had a "professional baseball hall of fame" rather than a "national baseball hall of fame", because in that case Koji was pretty much hall of fame worthy even before he ever playing in MLB. Does time spent with the Toronto Blue Jays count towards hall of fame credentials?
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Post by theaveragefan88 on Jun 13, 2014 12:37:30 GMT -5
I said it the other day: I think JBJ is what he is already. I don't think there's much projection left with him. He is a gold glove caliber centerfielder and no. 9 hitter. That's ridiculous. True, you make a good point...oh wait, you didn't make any point at all...
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Jun 13, 2014 13:24:56 GMT -5
True, you make a good point...oh wait, you didn't make any point at all... Where was your point?
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Post by joshv02 on Jun 13, 2014 13:38:17 GMT -5
Where are any of our points? What's the point in all of this? Who am I? Why am I here?
You just gotta keep livin' man, l i v i n.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 13, 2014 14:58:27 GMT -5
True, you make a good point...oh wait, you didn't make any point at all... I didn't really need to point out how many players in the history of baseball had a poor rookie season and went on to improve. And yeah, a lot of them don't. But all you can do is look at his track record - struggling after promotions, making adjustments and then hitting pretty damn well. It might take longer at the ML level. Plenty of reasons not to say WYSIWYG
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Jun 13, 2014 15:22:57 GMT -5
Where are any of our points? What's the point in all of this? Who am I? Why am I here? You just gotta keep livin' man, l i v i n. Time is a flat circle. God I hope Herrera is out of the lineup today (not that we're going to get the game in anyway)
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 13, 2014 15:40:00 GMT -5
Where are any of our points? What's the point in all of this? Who am I? Why am I here? You just gotta keep livin' man, l i v i n. Time is a flat circle. God I hope Herrera is out of the lineup today (not that we're going to get the game in anyway) Nope. It's absurd to not play Xander at SS while Drew is out who is probably out for a good while too. Although that would mean more Gomes vs. RHP and it's hard to say that Herrera is worse. CLEVELAND INDIANS BOSTON RED SOX Michael Bourn - CF Brock Holt - LF A. Cabrera - SS Xander Bogaerts - 3B M. Brantley - LF Dustin Pedroia - 2B Jason Kipnis - 2B David Ortiz - DH L. Chisenhall - 3B Mike Napoli - 1B David Murphy - RF Daniel Nava - RF Yan Gomes - C A.J. Pierzynski - C Carlos Santana - 1B J. Herrera - SS Ryan Raburn - DH Jackie Bradley - CF Justin Masterson - RHP John Lackey - RHP
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 13, 2014 15:47:04 GMT -5
Given the reluctance to put Xander at SS, signing Drew becomes dumber by the day. When WMB gets back, are they just going to share time at 3B while Drew faces LHP?
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Post by godot on Jun 13, 2014 15:58:47 GMT -5
They made it clear that they did not want to have Xander jump from 3rd to ss and then back again. So they are leaving him there while Drew is "day to day" ( ain't we all). And who knows when Middlebrooks comes back,Drew may still be out.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 13, 2014 16:30:55 GMT -5
They made it clear that they did not want to have Xander jump from 3rd to ss and then back again. So they are leaving him there while Drew is "day to day" ( ain't we all). And who knows when Middlebrooks comes back,Drew may still be out. And then what do they do? WMB is starting rehab tonight. Do WMB and Xander share time at 3B while Drew faces LHP? If they weren't willing to move Xander back and forth (which was my entire argument against signing Drew going back to last November), then signing Drew was pretty stupid.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jun 13, 2014 16:45:23 GMT -5
So wait, they still think that Bogaerts is a shortstop long-term, but in the short term he can only play third? Even though he was playing shortstop just a few weeks ago? So confused.
Just move him back and forth as necessary. And if he can't handle that then maybe you should have just left him at shortstop in the first damn place.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 13, 2014 16:48:52 GMT -5
So wait, they still think that Bogaerts is a shortstop long-term, but in the short term he can only play third? Even though he was playing shortstop just a few weeks ago? So confused. Just move him back and forth as necessary. And if he can't handle that then maybe you should have just left him at shortstop in the first damn place. Maybe Farrell is just doing everything he can to keep Gomes from facing RHP. Yeah. I think they're pretty much at the point where they're limiting Sizemore's PAs too. They're going to cost $10K a piece soon.
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Post by okin15 on Jun 13, 2014 17:09:11 GMT -5
By the time (if?) WMB gets back, they should be ready to swap Xander around based on pitcher handedness. If not, then they're making a huge mistake. For now, it's OK by me, as Herrera has been not horrible vs RHP.
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Post by godot on Jun 13, 2014 17:11:23 GMT -5
When there is an opening for manager, you guys should apply, but keep the day time gig.
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Post by jclmontana on Jun 13, 2014 17:34:59 GMT -5
When there is an opening for manager, you guys should apply, but keep the day time gig. This is a place where (mostly) amateurs talk about baseball, including roster construction, line-ups, prospects, promotions, and you know, baseball. That is what happens here. If that somehow offends you, maybe you should stay away.
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Post by jmei on Jun 13, 2014 17:43:19 GMT -5
They made it clear that they did not want to have Xander jump from 3rd to ss and then back again. So they are leaving him there while Drew is "day to day" ( ain't we all). And who knows when Middlebrooks comes back,Drew may still be out. And then what do they do? WMB is starting rehab tonight. Do WMB and Xander share time at 3B while Drew faces LHP? If they weren't willing to move Xander back and forth (which was my entire argument against signing Drew going back to last November), then signing Drew was pretty stupid. Farrell has made three or four statements to the effect that when Middlebrooks is healthy, they're going with Middlebrooks/Bogaerts versus LHP and Bogaerts/Drew versus RHP. However, until then, they want to keep Bogaerts at 3B to speed up his adjustment to the position. I think it's fair to question whether that latter approach makes much sense now that Drew is hurt and they don't want their next best option (Holt) playing SS. But your continued insistence that Drew is going to consistently face left-handed pitching when everyone is healthy is contradicted by every public statement that every member of the organization has made since Drew signed. EDIT: removed some unnecessarily harsh language.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 13, 2014 17:43:35 GMT -5
When there is an opening for manager, you guys should apply, but keep the day time gig. I'm holding out for GM.
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