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Post by jmei on Jun 18, 2014 7:45:22 GMT -5
Yeah by I think you are bordering on paralysis by analysis there. He's been every bit as valuable as the other three if you don't buy the save concept. Maybe slightly more so because he has 20% more IP. The innings pitched is a fair point, but even taking that into account, he's a step behind those guys both if you just look at this year and (especially) if you look at the last few years.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jun 18, 2014 7:51:37 GMT -5
Unfortunately, I don't think it's realistic that the Sox will sign all three for 2015. It's not that they aren't worth it individually, it's that I don't see the Sox allocating the amount of dollars it would take to relievers for all three.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jun 18, 2014 8:02:05 GMT -5
By the way, you pointed out relying on his defense which is what a ground ball pitcher does, consider the results and think about the average Red Sox infield defense this year. We,ve had Napoli miss a lot of action and his primary replacement was Carp, a learning curve shortstop and a third base rotation that included guys that didn't really play third base. Only Petey has been a mainstay. Overall, our infield defense has been pretty bad when you consider the entire season.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jun 18, 2014 8:07:48 GMT -5
Unfortunately, I don't think it's realistic that the Sox will sign all three for 2015. It's not that they aren't worth it individually, it's that I don't see the Sox allocating the amount of dollars it would take to relievers for all three. Good. Relievers are probably the worst possible place to spend money.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Jun 18, 2014 8:14:19 GMT -5
Badenhp is now 2nd all time Red Sox for consecutive scoreless innings. He's now 1/3 of an inning behind Koji last year (33.2). Also of note, 3 out of our arguably 4 best relievers are free agents at the end of the year. Badenhop, Miller, Koji. Of those, only Tazawa is under control. Win or lose, next year will be a bullpen rebuilding year. Most everyone here, as well as other sites keep harping on the Lester contract situation, but I am thinking of this issue also as more important for next season and am glad you have mentioned it now several times here: The possible forthcoming loss of major pieces to the pen for 2015 if they do not approach 1-2 LT this summer and it will be worse if they move breslow as some here have suggested and STILL lose 3. Am thinking some have forgotten how bad the Sox BP was when Francona took over and early on during his tenure, when it was hope for a CG, or get away with just using Timlin.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jun 18, 2014 8:15:04 GMT -5
Different topic but I saw something that struck me as interesting. It was a tweet and I don't remember the source but according to the tweet, of RDLR's 23 K's, only 3 were on the fastball. 18 came with his change-up.
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Post by elguapo on Jun 18, 2014 8:38:50 GMT -5
Miller & Badenhop are good trade candidates if we sell. Can't see the Sox shelling out for the money someone will give Miller. Badenhop might still be affordable.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 18, 2014 8:54:07 GMT -5
Badenhp is now 2nd all time Red Sox for consecutive scoreless innings. He's now 1/3 of an inning behind Koji last year (33.2). Also of note, 3 out of our arguably 4 best relievers are free agents at the end of the year. Badenhop, Miller, Koji. Of those, only Tazawa is under control. Win or lose, next year will be a bullpen rebuilding year. He might take the record in just 9 more appearances.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 18, 2014 9:13:05 GMT -5
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jun 18, 2014 9:47:35 GMT -5
Miller & Badenhop are good trade candidates if we sell. Can't see the Sox shelling out for the money someone will give Miller. Badenhop might still be affordable. Somebody or other is likely to consider retrying Miller as a SP.
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Post by godot on Jun 18, 2014 10:03:23 GMT -5
Miller & Badenhop are good trade candidates if we sell. Can't see the Sox shelling out for the money someone will give Miller. Badenhop might still be affordable. You are probably right, but I thought the Sox had all this great financial flexibility. Wonder what rainy day will come along.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 18, 2014 10:09:09 GMT -5
Some people just can't wait until we waste money. At least we're "trying" then.
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Post by elguapo on Jun 18, 2014 10:19:43 GMT -5
You are probably right, but I thought the Sox had all this great financial flexibility. Wonder what rainy day will come along. I would not shell out the money to give Miller either, personal dislike of the player aside; I can't really imagine that he'll continue to put up a 5:1 K/BB. Money can be spent re-signing Lester, for example, as I wanted to sign Greinke (who ended up getting more than I preferred, though Sanchez would have been a good second choice at more reasonable $).
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Post by godot on Jun 18, 2014 10:20:52 GMT -5
Some people just can't wait until we waste money. At least we're "trying" then. You have been brainwashed to the company line. Get real. Are you aspiring to be a moderator?
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 18, 2014 10:24:56 GMT -5
Some people just can't wait until we waste money. At least we're "trying" then. You have been brainwashed to the company line. Get real. Are you aspiring to be a moderator? I enjoy watching young players who are improving rather than old players who are sitting on their piles of money getting worse, with a few exceptions.
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Post by godot on Jun 18, 2014 10:36:24 GMT -5
Relief pitching is very, very important, if not critical for the success of a team. If you proven relievers, you should try and keep them, if you can afford them. More than likely, the Sox can afford to keep guys like Miller and the Bop Man who are still relatively young. If you think they are replaceable parts, good luck. Relief pitchers are like the proverbial box of chocolates. If you have some known guys, best to stick with them.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Jun 18, 2014 10:40:37 GMT -5
The same mentality which insisted on converting Bard to a SP will attempt to move Miller back to one.. A failure waiting to happen and it would be an unfortunate one for one of my favorite pitchers currently in the game and have watched during his entire career.
Fans have to have seen his non repeatable delivery at Miami and see how messed up this guy can get to see why starting him should be the worst career mistake for him, even after Boston had "fixed" his mechanics starting was a mistake. he still loses his release point as a SP. As a reliever? One of the best. If setup guys like Joe Smith can get 3/16m? Millers worth 4-5mAAV easily.
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Post by Gwell55 on Jun 18, 2014 10:50:36 GMT -5
You have been brainwashed to the company line. Get real. Are you aspiring to be a moderator? I enjoy watching young players who are improving rather than old players who are sitting on their piles of money getting worse, with a few exceptions. Yea, watching Bradley falling on his face sure made not offering Ellsbury a 5 yr deal at 22M worth it for the good of the FO didn't it! We have NO outfield offense because we need to watch our great AAA players from last year take over the outfield. Course if you have no replacements in AAA to start the year a good GM should just sit on his thumbs and buy dregs from years ago. Seems to me top franchises don't let go of good players when they have nothing for backups in AAA or just one option that MIGHT work out because of his D. We as fans deserve better or is nothing close in Pawtucket mean another 3-4 bridge years. Gee Ellsbury would of been a good 4 year bridge 9than trade him off) to the next set coming up!
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Post by jmei on Jun 18, 2014 11:02:49 GMT -5
Some people just can't wait until we waste money. At least we're "trying" then. You have been brainwashed to the company line. Get real. Are you aspiring to be a moderator? Maybe you should actually try to defend your argument rather than taking potshots at people. Seems like every time someone disagrees with you, you resort to petty name-calling rather than meaningfully responding.
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Post by jmei on Jun 18, 2014 11:06:10 GMT -5
For the record, I've been all over wanting to re-sign Miller. He's been dominant for three years now, and considering how the Red Sox picked him off the scrap heap and helped him transform into one of the best relievers in the league, maybe he'd be amenable to a below-market extension.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Jun 18, 2014 11:12:05 GMT -5
I enjoy watching young players who are improving rather than old players who are sitting on their piles of money getting worse, with a few exceptions. Yea, watching Bradley falling on his face sure made not offering Ellsbury a 5 yr deal at 22M worth it for the good of the FO didn't it! We have NO outfield offense because we need to watch our great AAA players from last year take over the outfield. Course if you have no replacements in AAA to start the year a good GM should just sit on his thumbs and buy dregs from years ago. Seems to me top franchises don't let go of good players when they have nothing for backups in AAA or just one option that MIGHT work out because of his D. We as fans deserve better or is nothing close in Pawtucket mean another 3-4 bridge years. Gee Ellsbury would of been a good 4 year bridge 9than trade him off) to the next set coming up! Jacoby takes our 5/110 over the Yankees 7/153? What world do you live in?
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Post by mattpicard on Jun 18, 2014 11:29:45 GMT -5
By the way, you pointed out relying on his defense which is what a ground ball pitcher does, consider the results and think about the average Red Sox infield defense this year. We,ve had Napoli miss a lot of action and his primary replacement was Carp, a learning curve shortstop and a third base rotation that included guys that didn't really play third base. Only Petey has been a mainstay. Overall, our infield defense has been pretty bad when you consider the entire season. 1B: +5 DRS, +4.0 UZR 2B: +7 DRS, +5.3 UZR 3B: -5 DRS, -2.8 UZR SS: -7 DRS, +0.1 UZR Net: 0 DRS, +6.5 UZR DRS has really hated Bogaerts — these are small samples of course, but they support my feeling that we’ve more or less had an overall solid defensive infield this season. Fun fact: If it weren’t for both metrics heavily knocking his arm, Daniel Nava would lead the Sox outfield in DRS and UZR.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Jun 18, 2014 11:39:49 GMT -5
I too had hopes of a Miller extension last offseason, but the FO spent the winter low balling him ibstead when Miller was only wanting 2.1m and the Sox offering up 1.8. Time was perfect with Miller coming off of a minor foot injury. Wasted opportunity indeed.
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Post by Gwell55 on Jun 18, 2014 11:54:11 GMT -5
Yea, watching Bradley falling on his face sure made not offering Ellsbury a 5 yr deal at 22M worth it for the good of the FO didn't it! We have NO outfield offense because we need to watch our great AAA players from last year take over the outfield. Course if you have no replacements in AAA to start the year a good GM should just sit on his thumbs and buy dregs from years ago. Seems to me top franchises don't let go of good players when they have nothing for backups in AAA or just one option that MIGHT work out because of his D. We as fans deserve better or is nothing close in Pawtucket mean another 3-4 bridge years. Gee Ellsbury would of been a good 4 year bridge 9than trade him off) to the next set coming up! Jacoby takes our 5/110 over the Yankees 7/153? What world do you live in? One where if they would of offered it before the end of the season & FA he would of taken it. Jake wasn't all about the money as many on here claim that actually didn't know or read up on him prior to this year.
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Post by beasleyrockah on Jun 18, 2014 12:06:58 GMT -5
Jacoby takes our 5/110 over the Yankees 7/153? What world do you live in? One where if they would of offered it before the end of the season & FA he would of taken it. Jake wasn't all about the money as many on here claim that actually didn't know or read up on him prior to this year. All I read about him was he'd allow Scott Boras to advise him and he'd follow his lead. I sincerely doubt Boras would've advised him to accept that deal months before free agency. Even if you disagree, saying definitively "he would of taken it" is just not true, you have no idea, it's a hypothetical scenario in an alternate universe.
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