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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 17, 2014 17:21:00 GMT -5
By protecting Gronk I mean in the following ways:
1. Not playing him when the game is in hand, such as was the case on his TD.
2. Not throwing the seem route as much as they do. Or routes where he's between levels running blind at a safety. Brady likes to leave him out to dry with hospital passes. You don't see any teams we play do stuff like that whereas the Pats do it all the time. Sure he doesn't get hurt on most but he comes very close a lot.
With the last play: The issue I had was gronk went air born with a hurdle the. The defender cut his legs and he landed on his shoulders... He could have lowered a shoulder and went in easily.
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Post by jmei on Nov 17, 2014 18:49:34 GMT -5
The game wasn't really in hand until after Gronk scored. At the time, it was a two-score game with half a quarter left. Yes, they were at the 26 and even a field goal effectively ends the game, but a turnover or punt there and the Colts have every opportunity to get back in it. After that score, they took Gronk out of the game, but I can understand keeping him in and throwing to him there.
The seam route is really effective becasue (a) it's a throw that stretches the defense vertically without having to throw it deep outside the numbers (which requires a longer/more accurate throw and more time for the OL to protect) and (b) Gronk is really good at it due to his ability to beat a jam, run past LBs, and be taller/bigger than DBs. In general, if the opponent plays zone (as many teams do in that intermediate zone between the numbers, knowing that it's really hard to cover Edelman/Gronk/etc. in man coverage over the middle), the way you defeat it is to throw intermediate passes between the LBs and the S. You have to throw them high to get them over the LBs. Plenty of other teams run those routes with their TEs and do just fine. If you stop running that route, it makes the offense worse.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 17, 2014 20:20:44 GMT -5
I fully understand how effective the route is and why they run it. They just don't need to run it nearly as much as they do that's all.
The game was in hand at that point because as you stated they were on the 26 and a FG ends it. They were already in pretty much automatic range and all they had to do is hand it off and continue to gash the defense.
I'm usually all about just playing things out, not taking out starters but Gronk is different to me. He's too prone to injury and too violent.
He's so damn good too. It's just amazing. He throws NFL players around like rag dolls. That last touchdown is what the big kid in the neighborhood does in the back hard. I'm glad I got to see it. I just won't be able to stand it if this guy isn't fully healthy in the playoffs. That literally has never happened in his career.
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Post by jmei on Nov 17, 2014 20:47:38 GMT -5
I don't think those routes increase the risk of injury enough that you just stop running them. I mean, one of the times he got hurt was from an extra point, another was when he was tackled from behind in a pretty standard situation (the high ankle sprain), and another was when he was trying to catch a fade by the sideline and fell on his forearm. It's really just the Ward hit that came as a result of one of those intermediate routes.
Perhaps more importantly, the Patriots are still just one game ahead of KC for home field advantage throughout (KC has the tiebreaker) and have a few teams that are effectively two games behind for the first-round bye (Miami, Denver). NE still has some pretty tough games still ahead of them, including at Green Bay and at San Diego. It's too early to put Gronk in bubble wrap and wait for the playoffs. You have to take your chances and hope he stays healthy.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 17, 2014 21:19:44 GMT -5
I used to love San Fran. They were my NFC team until that jackass Harbaugh got there. I love the Alex Smith story and love that he's making Harbaugh look bad. He's a good QB and a good reason why it's important to give a young QB a chance to develop in a system with continuity. It's amazing he got the chances he did over and over but it was almost certainly because of the contract and those aren't handed out anymore.
I fully expect the Patriots to lose another game here but I'm guessing KC does as well.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 18, 2014 12:18:32 GMT -5
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Post by mgoetze on Nov 18, 2014 16:17:17 GMT -5
Good breakdown of the no safety call here: I'd never heard of patspulpit.com as a credible source on refereeing before ... here's footballzebras.com on the topic: |
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Post by rangoon82 on Nov 18, 2014 16:28:26 GMT -5
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 18, 2014 16:45:31 GMT -5
Unmm choice A is clearly what happened. That ball was clearly nearly at rest and the colts player muffed it to the end zone.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 18, 2014 16:53:52 GMT -5
Basically my understanding now is you just have to ask two questions per the rules.
Was the ball almost stopped outside the end zone?
And
Did the receiving team knock it into the end zone?
If both answers are yes then it should've been a safety. If someone. Wants to argue it happened too fast so the red didn't see what happened then it makes some sense but answering either of those questions any other way I think you're just fooling yourself.
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Post by mgoetze on Nov 18, 2014 17:05:56 GMT -5
OK, well, I completely disagree that the ball was "nearly at rest". Try watching the play in real time rather than slo-mo.
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Post by Don Caballero on Nov 18, 2014 18:15:58 GMT -5
It was not a safety. That's never going to be called a safety because it isn't. If you disagree with the rule, that's more than okay: I disagree with it as well, I think it makes absolutely no sense. However, you can't disagree with the enforcement of said rule. It was not a safety, and I'd be saying that even if we lost by 1 point.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 18, 2014 19:49:50 GMT -5
OK, well, I completely disagree that the ball was "nearly at rest". Try watching the play in real time rather than slo-mo. I certainly have but if that's our disagreement then it's simply a matter of opinion and considering it's not a black or what subject everyone is entitled to theirs. Good talk |
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Nov 20, 2014 10:46:21 GMT -5
Lagarrette Blount back on a 2-year deal for the minimum plus incentives.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 20, 2014 11:22:39 GMT -5
Since they are waiving Casey Walker to bring him in I'm cool with his move, but Siliga is going to be activated soon and I will be interested to see the trickle down. I doubt they carry 5 RBs plus a FB for long.
Vereen
Blount
gray
Bolden
white
Devin
That's a lot of roster tied up back there. White is clearly the least useful today but I can't see them dropping that high a draft pick at this point. My vote would be Bolden despite the fact he's a Core 4 special Teamer.... They seem to have a lot more special teams depth this year so his loss is very manageable.
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Post by texs31 on Nov 20, 2014 14:35:06 GMT -5
All of the usual reporting suspects posting the Fleming had a walking boot on today.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 21, 2014 8:20:39 GMT -5
Oakland beating KC was huge for the Patriots playoff picture and odds of getting the number 1 see. They were the one team with the head to head tie breaker. As long as they don't lose 2 games they are in the clear. Of course they could lose 2 more it's a nice spot to be in.
Denver may not win out either.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 21, 2014 16:11:50 GMT -5
Good job Jonas... Way to screw up
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Post by jmei on Nov 22, 2014 0:33:21 GMT -5
I wouldn't be shocked if Hoomanawanui is the guy who gets released when Siliga returns. He's been pretty bad as a blocker this year, he's never been much of a receiver, Devlin might deserve a few extra reps, and the Patriots might start using more six-offensive-lineman sets.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 22, 2014 11:37:48 GMT -5
That would surprise me even though you are right about his time. No way BB goes without another blocking TE and leaves 2 on the roster. They have so much special teams depth that Bolden going makes sense to me especially since I think he sits on the street unsigned.
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Post by jmei on Nov 22, 2014 11:43:19 GMT -5
The idea would be that Develin gets reps as that second in-line tight end, though maybe that's overextending him. I could see Bolden as well, but my worry is that he's Vereen's backup (though maybe White is ready to take that role?) and is a great special teams player.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 22, 2014 16:26:53 GMT -5
I guess we can't count out anything since its BB... I might just be jaded bc I think Bolden is good at any RB related role. He Seems like a bad receiving back so I'd much prefer White given the chance. Funny, I feel Ridiey should've been given more of a chance in the passing game when they were trying to have Bolden receive. Bolden has too many big drops that I can recall.
I think it's telling that he's basically received no running back reps this year especially compared to years past.
We will see how the next few weeks play out. A lot can happen. Hell maybe Branch doesn't step up and he's gone.
I like Devlin a lot and think he's chronically under rated.
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Post by mgoetze on Nov 22, 2014 19:23:51 GMT -5
Don Jones is even further down on the DB depth chart than Bolden is on the RB depth chart, so if they think they can afford to cut a special teamer Jones would seem like a better candidate.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 23, 2014 10:50:32 GMT -5
You could be right with Don Jones. I don't know if I agree he's necessarily further down the depth Chart at his respective position, but that's splitting hairs. He's not a core 4 guy like Bolden. I dont know enough about the position he plays versus the one Bolden plays thus, I can't say who's more easily replaced but Jones seems like an option. He is a defensive player though so that size and tackling ability separates him from Bolden. I believe one of Boldens jobs is the punt protector, a role Chung (infamously) used to have so he could step in easily. I agree with Jones though, I just have a tough time seeing BB carrying 5 running backs and a fullback.
Still have nightmares about Chung dropping that fake punt snap... C'mon man
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Post by jmei on Nov 23, 2014 11:21:44 GMT -5
Don Jones plays gunner on the punt/punt return units, and is one of the better one of those in the league, but as you noted, he doesn't play on kickoffs. He's a good name to bring up, though-- Malcolm Butler is a guy who has also gotten some gunner reps (in the game Don Jones was inactive for) and might be a candidate to replace Jones there.
Bolden isn't the punt protector-- I think Ebner has been doing so most of the year (but am not totally sure about that one). I don't think Bolden plays any particular specialized role on any of the special teams units. He's on the front line in kickoff return (and is part of the hands team), rushes the punter in punt return (he almost got that block on the Edelmen return for a TD), and is a generic lane guy in punt/KO coverage. He's good at his job, though-- good speed and toughness, instincts, etc. It'll be at least two weeks before Siliga comes back, though, so it might be a little premature to even think about.
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