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2015 Patriots Offseason Thread
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Post by texs31 on Feb 13, 2015 8:32:00 GMT -5
If it's the difference in getting both Revis and DMac done it may be a real possibility.
I would certainly look at Wilfork and Mayo first (hopefully for restructuring not cutting) but Browner is on the list too.
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Post by mgoetze on Feb 13, 2015 9:41:26 GMT -5
Again, I really can't imagine Wilfork being willing to restructure again. He was forced to take a pay cut last season because his performance might not be good enough after his injury - and it was more than good enough. Yes, Wilfork's salary looks big, but he is also immensely valuable.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Feb 13, 2015 10:07:59 GMT -5
Isnt this the last guaranteed year of his contract though? He might be willing to for an extension.
Mayo I don't think makes sense to cut due to his huge dead money penalty. Hopefully we can restructure/resign him. It could be tough to resign Gostkowski.
Browner I think actually is a great deal for a CB2. I think Arrington is the one thats not as good of a deal.
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Post by jmei on Feb 13, 2015 10:10:56 GMT -5
Again, I really can't imagine Wilfork being willing to restructure again. He was forced to take a pay cut last season because his performance might not be good enough after his injury - and it was more than good enough. Yes, Wilfork's salary looks big, but he is also immensely valuable. I'm skeptical that he really is all that valuable in today's NFL. Wilfork's ability to stand up to double-teams is great versus power run schemes, but how many teams really run that power scheme these days? Variations on zone schemes have become much more popular, and Wilfork is much less valuable against zone runs that get defensive linemen moving laterally while cut-blocking the back side, as we saw in the Ravens game and (somewhat) in the Seahawks game. As he's gotten older, Wilfork has lost explosiveness and has become more of a one-dimensional player (he's been in the lower tier in terms of pass-rushing productivity amongst defensive tackles over the past few years), and that one dimension just isn't that valuable anymore.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Feb 14, 2015 12:56:35 GMT -5
I pay little attention to the draft so take this with a grain of salt... But I really like TJ Yeldon from Alabama. He is physical enough to run between the tackles and nifty/athletic enough to do some of the short passing game.
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Post by jimed14 on Mar 2, 2015 16:18:40 GMT -5
Didn't expect Gostikowski to get tagged.
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Post by mgoetze on Mar 3, 2015 0:57:11 GMT -5
Didn't expect Gostikowski to get tagged. Why not? Seemed pretty clear to me it was one of the 3 possible outcomes.
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Post by texs31 on Mar 3, 2015 12:23:40 GMT -5
Agreed. Only way they could franchise DMAC was if Revis situation was resolved.
That left them with the choice of using it on Go stows or not using. SG has proven he can kick in weather. The franchise number for kickers does not handcuff them.
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Post by mgoetze on Mar 3, 2015 20:08:51 GMT -5
Kicker $4.09m Tagging Gostkowski would make him the highest-paid kicker in the NFL by AAV. It wouldn't be a massive overpay but you should be able to get him for less with some guarantees, and there's no reason to think you would regret guaranteeing some of his 2017 salary. Eh, apparently Gostkowski's cap hit in 2014 was high enough that his tag is now 120% or $4.5m. Makes it all the more surprising to me that they couldn't work out a longer term deal instead.
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Post by texs31 on Mar 4, 2015 8:35:55 GMT -5
They still can, right?
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 4, 2015 9:45:04 GMT -5
A few random things:
- Vince is one dimensional but even that is super valuable to this team. He's not easily replaced and this team would have been hashed versus the run without him even with Siliga and Branch, etc. They did they best stopping the run by having all those guys on the line together. He's too valuable to this team to cut.
- I can't see Browner even being a consideration to be cut. His salary isn't that great and he's a great match ups guy. Moving him into Mathews in the Super Bowl may have been the key to winning. His penalties are only a minor concern. They play a way bigger role in the regular season and penalties have little correlation to wins or losses. Seattle has been one of the most penalized teams in the NFL each of the last couple years, the Patriots were this year and Denver has been as well. So not to say penalties help you win but the style of play that draws regular season flags does. They call less of that stuff in the playoffs.
- Arrington is one of my least favorite players but he had his moments and the savings isnt enough to cut him. But there is enough depth there that if it's necessary to keep Revis and McCourty then it's fine.
- Amendola is another that may be over paid but he's not worth cutting because you'd have to pay more than what you save to replace him for less production.
- I'm not surprised Goskowski got the tag but I'm disappointed is wasn't McCourty. I don't buy the Revis situation having anything to do with it.
- revis needs to be resigned. No excuses not to; it has to happen and I'm guessing it will but I'll be nervous everyday until it does because he's that important. You don't let a guy like him leave. Him, Brady and Gronk are the three guys that if any of them aren't there the team goes from favorite to an after thought.
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Post by jimed14 on Mar 4, 2015 10:23:56 GMT -5
The Eagles now have over $50 million to spend and are probably going to be calling Revis' agent. Probably McCourty's also.
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 4, 2015 14:53:59 GMT -5
Everyone will be calling both of them
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Post by texs31 on Mar 5, 2015 9:06:16 GMT -5
Wilfork is gone. Tweeted a note to Pats fans thanking them after being told his option was not picked up. Technically, Pats could bring him back but I don't see him willing to do so.
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 7, 2015 19:10:17 GMT -5
Wilfork is gone. Tweeted a note to Pats fans thanking them after being told his option was not picked up. Technically, Pats could bring him back but I don't see him willing to do so. How do you read his note and not think he's willing to return? It's going to matter about the money but do we think Vince is getting more than 3m on the open market? If he does, I be its a crappy team who needs to spend money like Oakland or Jacksonville.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,860
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Post by wcp3 on Mar 8, 2015 10:46:47 GMT -5
You never know, but I dont think they'd give him such a head start on free agency if they had any intention of bringing him back.
Like others have mentioned, Vince has become very one dimensional, and that one dimension has become less important over the years.
I'm hoping I don't have to watch Wilfork in another uni, but it looks inevitable at this point.
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Post by jmei on Mar 8, 2015 10:52:22 GMT -5
I don't think they have officially released Wilfork yet, but they've just informed him his option won't be picked up. I think he won't officially be released until the start of the league year on Tuesday.
I wouldn't be surprised to see him back with the Patriots. He doesn't strike me as the guy who would take a little extra money to play for a non-contender. He is the kind of veteran piece that contenders like to talk themselves into overpaying a little, so he's probably gone, but if no playoff-caliber team is willing to offer a meaningfully better contract, I think he would be back.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Mar 9, 2015 0:42:44 GMT -5
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Post by mgoetze on Mar 10, 2015 9:36:53 GMT -5
Pats were linked to Brian Hartline before he agreed with the Browns and are now being linked to Andre Johnson. It seems like they'd like to add a receiver. I'm guessing they would cut Amendola if they landed one.
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 10, 2015 10:06:49 GMT -5
I don't see the value in cutting Amendola. His cap savings doesn't out weigh what you'd need to spend to replace him and he's probably better than the options being mentioned. The guy I actually have the most interest in is Percy Harvin because there is a chance he can be had for 1 year and 2m w/ incentives. He also is explosive for kick returns. Replacing Amendola for Johnson makes little sense to me.
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Post by jmei on Mar 10, 2015 10:40:59 GMT -5
I don't see the value in cutting Amendola. His cap savings doesn't out weigh what you'd need to spend to replace him and he's probably better than the options being mentioned. The guy I actually have the most interest in is Percy Harvin because there is a chance he can be had for 1 year and 2m w/ incentives. He also is explosive for kick returns. Replacing Amendola for Johnson makes little sense to me. If they designated Amendola a post-June-1 cut, they'd save $4.5m in 2015 cap space, which is quite a bit and almost certainly more than he's worth to them (it would push $2.4m in dead cap space to 2016, however). I think they'd ideally like him to restructure his contract and convert a good chunk of his base salary to NLBTE incentives (or just to reduce it), but if he doesn't agree to that, I think he gets cut. They're also letting Browner test the market, and have almost certainly asked him to restructure as well (either by converting base salary to NLTBE incentives or by reducing his base salary and giving some of it to him as a signing bonus to compensate). His cap hit is $4.8m (no dead money), which is a little more than I honestly think he's worth. If they need the extra cap space to re-sign Revis ( which they do-- there just aren't that many other places to carve out cap space (their other options require extensions/restructurings with existing players, whose agents don't have to play ball), and they're only $9.5m under the cap at the moment), I wouldn't hesitate to cut Browner. I just don't think he's that good, and while his size and physicality is useful in certain matchups, he's really lost a step and the penalties are a big issue. They also have good depth with Ryan, Butler, and Dennard.
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 10, 2015 10:51:24 GMT -5
I didn't realize that on Amendola post June 1 number so that certainly changes things but I would hate to lose him. I think he's reached a comfort zone and he was very valuable the last 6-8 games.
Couldn't disagree more on Browner though. The penalties are not an issue. Go look up the most penalized teans the last few years, where the penalties came from and where they ended up. The Pats were in it last year bc of Browner and won the SB, Seattle is always up their because of penalties in the secondary and we know how they finish. That physical style helps you way more than the penalties hurt you. Plus, those penalties drastically change in the playoffs so it's way more of a benefit when it counts. You need to get past the frustration part of it as a fan. They don't win that SB without his physical play and him matching up on Mathews after he torched the guys you mentioned. He's a big time Matchup piece and is making very little for what he does. Maxwell just got 10m a year and I'd rather have Browner than him for this squad. I think they are letting him test it to try to work out an extension to lower his number this year, not to pay him less or to cut him.
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Post by jmei on Mar 10, 2015 11:24:05 GMT -5
Correlation is not causation-- they won in spite of his penalties, not because of them. Remember, he gets to play that physical style because he has McCourty shading to his side and he doesn't have to worry as much about the deep ball, and for what he adds versus larger receivers, he subtracts versus the smaller, shiftier ones. $5m a year is a good bit of money for a corner entering his 30s who is mostly a matchup piece-- is his role that much more valuable than Kyle Arrington's, for instance? Like I said, he's not overpaid by much, and the only reason I think it's a consideration is because there aren't a lot of other ways to open up cap space, but I won't be too upset if they cut him. We'll see what happens.
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 10, 2015 12:23:42 GMT -5
Correlation is not causation-- they won in spite of his penalties, not because of them. Remember, he gets to play that physical style because he has McCourty shading to his side and he doesn't have to worry as much about the deep ball, and for what he adds versus larger receivers, he subtracts versus the smaller, shiftier ones. $5m a year is a good bit of money for a corner entering his 30s who is mostly a matchup piece-- is his role that much more valuable than Kyle Arrington's, for instance? Like I said, he's not overpaid by much, and the only reason I think it's a consideration is because there aren't a lot of other ways to open up cap space, but I won't be too upset if they cut him. We'll see what happens. True, penalties don't help you win. The style of play that leads to those penalties does. I think it's clear less penalties are called in the post season and so his style of play plays up during that time. There's a difference between certain types of penalties. Pass interference and defensive holding can certainly hurt you badly. However, those are much different than a false start, holding, off sides, too many men on the field, etc... Aggressive play penalties vs undisciplined football penalties. Is his role more valuable than Arrigtons? On this team, without a question. He provides a chess piece that the rest of the midget secondary doesn't. If 21, 26 or 37 develop then you can play Browner less versus the shiftier receivers. It's nice having options, especially for a guy like Belichick and Browner provides something we cannot replace. Arrington, is much more easily replaced. In fact, he was multiple times because he's the most up and down player I have ever seen. Can go from shutting down a stud in the slot to looking like a guy who shouldn't be in the NFL. It's crazy.
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Post by jmei on Mar 10, 2015 12:41:37 GMT -5
Yes, he's a useful piece, but I don't think he's $4.8m useful. That's in the top 30 cornerback cap hits in the league, ahead of guys like Antonio Cromartie and Walter Thurmond. That's too much to pay for what you readily admit is more of a matchup chess piece than a clear-cut starter.
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