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Post by jrffam05 on May 7, 2015 12:28:11 GMT -5
Marino Pepén @marino_Pepen · 9m 9 minutes ago FUENTE: Todo indica que John Henry luego de la reunión con Farrell, ha tomado el toro por los cuernos y nadie está seguro en #RedSox. #MLB Source: Everything indicates that John Henry, after the meeting with Farrell, has taken the bull by the horns and no one is safe on the Red Sox. ...starting with Farrell? probably ending with Farrell
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Post by jimed14 on May 7, 2015 12:29:06 GMT -5
I also think that everyone underestimated the loss of Ross (and Vazquez).
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steveofbradenton
Veteran
Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
Posts: 1,826
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Post by steveofbradenton on May 7, 2015 12:33:10 GMT -5
Hard to believe Nieves is THE problem. I actually admit to everyone on this site....I thought we had ENOUGH in the rotation and even the pen. I was WRONG, but it is not Nieves' fault. Henry and Farrell and Cherington can all start to throw their weight around if they want, but nothing will improve until we stabilize the pitching staff. I do believe the Sox are sending a very pointed message today with both the Nieves and Mujica response.
I am personally ecstatic that Mujica is gone. I think they should understand NOW that Masterson is not capable of being part of the rotation until his velo increases. Place him in the bull pen as the replacement for Mujica. Bring Barnes up and keep him up in the bullpen. Have Wright be placed into the rotation as the 1st attempt, but add Eduardo in the next month after we "audition" Buch, Miley, and Kelly. Kelly could be great in the pen.
Things have to change. Things have started to change. Things will continue to change. The way the club is playing currently is unacceptable.
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Post by kman22 on May 7, 2015 12:38:29 GMT -5
Well until the new pitching coach is hired, "Pedro, Pedro, Pedro" will be my mantra. You have to will it people. It's all I think about when I go to sleep at night, and then again when I wake up.
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Post by mgoetze on May 7, 2015 12:38:34 GMT -5
I also think that everyone underestimated the loss of Ross (and Vazquez). For some strange reason most people thought Hanigan's pitch framing this year might be similarly good to Hanigan's pitch framing in previous years, which was not the case.
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Post by jimed14 on May 7, 2015 12:42:15 GMT -5
I also think that everyone underestimated the loss of Ross (and Vazquez). For some strange reason most people thought Hanigan's pitch framing this year might be similarly good to Hanigan's pitch framing in previous years, which was not the case. I was thinking more along the lines of game preparation, where there are few as good as Ross. Having him on the team is probably like having an extra pitching coach. I agree that Hanigan's pitch framing appears disappointing. But Swihart looks really good at it so far.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on May 7, 2015 12:42:57 GMT -5
Team management is on the hot seat. What is the biggest problem? The last place pitching staff. Farrell is a former pitching coach. Anything we say is speculation but my guess is that probably he is holding his people accountable for their performance and that starts with the guy in charge of the pitching staff. Farrell is not happy with his chosen mamager of the pitching staff and it doesn't seem to be improving any time soon. He needs better performance from the group, so he's moving in a different direction so to speak..
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Post by jimed14 on May 7, 2015 12:44:58 GMT -5
Farrell has to be on the hot seat as well now. Not Cherington though.
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Post by notguilty on May 7, 2015 12:50:11 GMT -5
That's just ridiculous. Obviously things aren't going great right now, but there was little else he could do in the offseason and little anyone can do when everyone's results are worse than their peripherals and worse than expected before the season. I mean what should he have done instead? Our offense stinks right now, but he should have dumped Papi and Napoli before the season because they aren't hitting now? This lineup is going to mash eventually. All you can judge a GM on is what the team looked like on paper before they start playing. He cannot stop a 10% outcome from happening. And the 10% outcome is not likely to stay that way even if he makes no more moves. Not sure why people blame Cherington. The pitching staff hasn't been optimal, but other than re-signing Lester or trading for a pitcher, which both would have likely had consequences, there isn't much he could have done. The Lester contract will probably look pretty bad, and we would have had to give up Mookie or Swihart to get an ace type pitcher. They can instead get guys like that next off season or at the trade deadline. What is more questionable as far as Ben's moves go, are keeping Craig and Miley on the ML roster, and DFAing Varvaro. If he fixed that, I'd argue he is doing a pretty good job keeping our team in contention while also not giving up significant prospect talent. I'll not go as far as to say Ben must go, etc. That's silly. But I similarly don't quite get the "You can't blame Ben" or "What else could Cherington have done" theme. Granted, it's only one month in, and we're talking about one of the worst pitching staffs in the majors. Masterson was terrible last year, has always had issues with lefties. They could have found somebody better. Relying on Buchholz, when there are so many other question marks (Kelly, Miley) doesn't seem like the smartest thing to do, and that's hardly second-guessing. I thought signing Breslow was asinine. You look at those games vs. the Yankees, and it was astonishing how superior their Bullpen was - or conversely, how bad the Sox's was. Unless Nieves was the one driving the bus on all those decisions, somebody has got to be responsible for them, no? I'm sorry to see Nieves go; may be there were communications issues, etc. Fine. But the issue to me, is that the talent on the pitching side just isn't good enough. And yes, SSS and all that - but we may be out of the playoffs by the time the sample is acceptable enough.
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Post by jimed14 on May 7, 2015 12:54:28 GMT -5
When I start thinking about this more, it's not hard to see the indicators that there was something wrong with Nieves. The comments about none of the pitchers pitching inside and then when Mujica and Koji were throwing like 90% splitters was pretty ridiculous in hindsight. That's on the coaching.
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Post by mgoetze on May 7, 2015 12:54:53 GMT -5
we're talking about one of the worst pitching staffs in the majors. You might be, but I prefer to talk about the Red Sox. You know, the team whose starters have the 14th-best SIERA in the majors.
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Post by notguilty on May 7, 2015 12:59:46 GMT -5
we're talking about one of the worst pitching staffs in the majors. You might be, but I prefer to talk about the Red Sox. You know, the team whose starters have the 14th-best SIERA in the majors. Fair enough. They're great. They have "the 14th-best SIERA in the majors". I wonder why they feel the need to fire their pitching coach one month into the season.
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Post by jrffam05 on May 7, 2015 13:05:19 GMT -5
Compare Buchholz, Kelly, and Porcello to Sale, Quintana, and Samardzija and see which group has been better so far. Pitching is very inconsistent and a very hard thing to project.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on May 7, 2015 13:06:20 GMT -5
I think Henry likes Ben a lot for several reasons:
He very quickly cleaned up Theo's mess and delivered a World Series
He hasn't stuck the team with any albatross contracts (with the exception of Craig, who isn't long term)
He has done a good job developing the farm
He seems to be more in line philosophically with Henry than Farrell.
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Post by jmei on May 7, 2015 13:06:24 GMT -5
There's a difference between saying "this pitching staff has been the worst in the majors so far" (which even mgoetze would probably admit is true) and saying "this pitching staff is the worst in the majors so far" (suggesting that they will be the worst pitching staff in the league going forward). I'm pretty confident that, even ignoring internal promotions and external additions, the five guys in the current rotation will not, from this point forward, have the worst ERA (or B-R WAR) in the league through the rest of the season.
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Post by jimed14 on May 7, 2015 13:09:32 GMT -5
There's a difference between saying "this pitching staff has been the worst in the majors so far" (which even mgoetze would probably admit is true) and saying "this pitching staff is the worst in the majors so far" (suggesting that they will be the worst pitching staff in the league going forward). I'm pretty confident that, even ignoring internal promotions and external additions, the five guys in the current rotation will not, from this point forward, have the worst ERA (or B-R WAR) in the league through the rest of the season. SIERA is way more predictive of what they'll be going forward. But I imagine pitchers' confidence is still tied mainly to their own results and probably don't feel too great about a 6-7 run game where they would normally only allow 3 runs. So maybe this move resets some of that discouragement. I know how frustrated I get when I see so many ground ball singles in a row or when an umpire squeezes them with two outs and they go on to score 4 runs when the inning should have been over. I can't imagine how frustrated they are.
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Post by okin15 on May 7, 2015 13:13:51 GMT -5
Pretty sure this is a favor to Brady and the Pats to take the heat off of them.
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Post by pedroelgrande on May 7, 2015 13:17:37 GMT -5
Pepen is pretty sensationalistic wouldn't put too much stock into that report.
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Post by notguilty on May 7, 2015 13:19:36 GMT -5
There's a difference between saying "this pitching staff has been the worst in the majors so far" (which even mgoetze would probably admit is true) and saying "this pitching staff is the worst in the majors so far" (suggesting that they will be the worst pitching staff in the league going forward). I'm pretty confident that, even ignoring internal promotions and external additions, the five guys in the current rotation will not, from this point forward, have the worst ERA (or B-R WAR) in the league through the rest of the season. Well, I certainly would agree with that. In fact, what I precisely said was "we're talking about one of the worst staffs in the majors". I didn't say "so far" though, but that's certainly what I meant.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on May 7, 2015 13:21:32 GMT -5
Is anyone able to provide a link to the conference call while it is happening or after it is done?
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Post by Guidas on May 7, 2015 13:21:46 GMT -5
I sincerely doubt that this is just about scapegoating someone or sending a message. Has to be something philosophical or otherwise going on behind the scenes. But we'll see - conference call at 2:15. Can I get the dial-up number of the conference call? I just have a couple questions...
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Post by Guidas on May 7, 2015 13:22:43 GMT -5
...starting with Farrell? probably ending with Farrell Ending with Cherrington, more likely, but the heads would fall into the same basket.
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Post by grandsalami on May 7, 2015 13:22:57 GMT -5
Ryan Hannable ?@ryanhannable 11s11 seconds ago On conference call Cherington thanks Nieves for everything he did. "Terrific guy, quality coach." Needed "different voice."
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Post by grandsalami on May 7, 2015 13:23:11 GMT -5
Tim Britton ?@timbritton 4s4 seconds ago Cherington: "John and I felt that in order to push forward and make improvement, we needed to make a change at that position."
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Post by grandsalami on May 7, 2015 13:23:37 GMT -5
Alex Speier ?@alexspeier 52s53 seconds ago Cherington: Sox currently working on a replacement for Nieves. Not clear that will happen by tomorrow in Toronto.
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