SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 7, 2015 15:26:09 GMT -5
I wonder if there's precedent for firing TWO pitching coaches during the same season. There's a whole lot of season left to play.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on May 7, 2015 15:26:07 GMT -5
I think I was chastised for mentioning this last year, but there are several bridge years involved when you're trying to replace Papi, Lester, etc. with Xander, Mookie, Vazquez, Swihart and some of the starting pitcher prospects and others that haven't made it yet. And they're still in a great position to win in the meantime. I guess it comes down to how you define it, but if the team is in a great position to win in the present, are they really bridge years? Great is relatively speaking. I think they'll be in much better position when Mookie, Xander, Swihart, some of the pitchers, Moncada, Devers, etc. are 24-28.
|
|
tedf
Rookie
Posts: 79
|
Post by tedf on May 7, 2015 15:28:25 GMT -5
Marino Pepén @marino_Pepen · 9m 9 minutes ago FUENTE: Todo indica que John Henry luego de la reunión con Farrell, ha tomado el toro por los cuernos y nadie está seguro en #RedSox. #MLB Source: Everything indicates that John Henry, after the meeting with Farrell, has taken the bull by the horns and no one is safe on the Red Sox. Does that include their washed up outfielders? No, they are indispensable.
|
|
tedf
Rookie
Posts: 79
|
Post by tedf on May 7, 2015 15:34:09 GMT -5
the team developed very, very little talent for its own roster for a few years there. ...aside from Rizzo. Reddick is also putting together a nice season.
|
|
|
Post by MLBDreams on May 7, 2015 15:39:35 GMT -5
Who want to see Ben & John go if the team still playing terrible all way to the end of season? I do. I rather to let them go now. It's unacceptable performance by the whole pitching staff except Porcello & Uehara.
|
|
|
Post by brianthetaoist on May 7, 2015 15:43:10 GMT -5
the team developed very, very little talent for its own roster for a few years there. ...aside from Rizzo. Reddick is also putting together a nice season. Yeah, I mentioned "for its own roster" ... Rizzo was part of what bought the "juggernaut" team of Gonzalez et al, so there was value there. And there was also all the guys the A's snapped up (Reddick, Lowrie, Moss), but the point stands: the team was depending on that Gonzalez team to be the core for a few years, and it just collapsed without young guys to fill the void.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on May 7, 2015 15:49:31 GMT -5
Who want to see Ben & John go if the team still playing terrible all way to the end of season? I do. I rather to let them go now. It's unacceptable performance by the whole pitching staff except Porcello & Uehara. Things can always be worse you know. I really like the plan, whether it works or not. There is no point in panicking and playing "win now" by trading for and overpaying for the over 30 guys who are the only guys available in a trade or as a free agent. The league has changed and there is no option other than producing your own stars. We're in good shape in that some of these kids should turn into that. I mean should we have traded a boatload of prospects for Craig in 2012 when he was one of the best players in the league? Everyone would have been excited about it... until now 2014. Aging curves seem to have shifted wayyyyy to the left in the last 10 years.
|
|
|
Post by mgoetze on May 7, 2015 15:50:48 GMT -5
I don't want to get too deep into the weeds here, but SIERA is more prescriptive than descriptive and was always intended to be. See, e.g., here. That's why you're not going to see SIERA-based WAR anytime soon. I have no idea who Steve Slowinski is. He certainly didn't invent SIERA - Matt Swartz did. Swartz consistently refers to his metric as an ERA Estimator. What does he mean by that? This paragraph sums it up nicely: www.fangraphs.com/blogs/new-siera-part-four-of-five-testing/Hence, the goal of SIERA is to indicate what a pitcher's ERA should have been with average luck and average defense. Red Sox starters rank 14th in the majors in this metric. My conclusion is they did not deliver the worst pitching performances in the league (and are unlikely to do so going forward).
|
|
tedf
Rookie
Posts: 79
|
Post by tedf on May 7, 2015 15:51:52 GMT -5
...aside from Rizzo. Reddick is also putting together a nice season. Yeah, I mentioned "for its own roster" ... Rizzo was part of what bought the "juggernaut" team of Gonzalez et al, so there was value there. And there was also all the guys the A's snapped up (Reddick, Lowrie, Moss), but the point stands: the team was depending on that Gonzalez team to be the core for a few years, and it just collapsed without young guys to fill the void. Very true! And while I like the current group of prospects very much, I'm not sure they are ready to carry the team this year. Perhaps in 2016 or 2017?
|
|
|
Post by thelavarnwayguy on May 7, 2015 16:15:17 GMT -5
How about Curt Schilling? He could probably use the cash but probably makes more as an analyst. I doubt if Buchhholz would be a fan of that option.
Step #1 : Issue every starter a pair of bloody socks....
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on May 7, 2015 16:36:28 GMT -5
How about Curt Schilling? He could probably use the cash but probably makes more as an analyst. I doubt if Buchhholz would be a fan of that option. Step #1 : Issue every starter a pair of bloody socks.... I couldn't think of a worse choice.
|
|
|
Post by DesignatedForAssignment on May 7, 2015 16:57:14 GMT -5
the team developed very, very little talent for its own roster for a few years there. ...aside from Rizzo. Reddick is also putting together a nice season. Jose Iglesias is one 25-year old who cannot be over-hyped.
And Craig is a bum, but Napoli is just a-slumpin'? I'd stick with Craig until the last dog dies ... and be ready to send Napoli to the 'Stros in July.
Don't even talk about Bradley until June 10th.
The next move to watch for is Masterson to the bullpen ...
(Sox baseball is so entertaining. When it's good, it's great. And when it's bad, it's still pretty good.)
|
|
|
Post by tonyc on May 7, 2015 17:39:36 GMT -5
I see from MLB dreams the sort of panic that if spread to enough writers talk show hosts and public can pressure more short term type moves. Want no part of that regardless of results this year- we've built a great system and flexibility. Fortunately Henry and Cherington are statistically and long-term oriented and I don't foresee a resultant rape of our top 10 prospects-yet.
|
|
|
Post by rangoon82 on May 7, 2015 17:42:28 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by caseytins on May 7, 2015 17:46:15 GMT -5
I think this is a good firing. I've never been impressed with Nieves. It happened early enough in the season for the pitchers to get acclimated with the new hire.
|
|
steveofbradenton
Veteran
Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
Posts: 1,826
|
Post by steveofbradenton on May 7, 2015 17:53:52 GMT -5
I wonder if there's precedent for firing TWO pitching coaches during the same season. There's a whole lot of season left to play. I remember the Steinbrenner years and it was sort of a joke. It almost seemed like he was firing a coach a week.
|
|
|
Post by larrycook on May 7, 2015 18:56:34 GMT -5
It really seemed like Nieves was a perfect pitching coach for a veteran pitching staff, however next to none if our younger pitchers thrived or developed under his watch. And it seems the replacement starting guys are just not producing like we think they should.
Was it a talent problem or was Nieves not able to help these guys?
Or has the unstable catching situation offset the work that Nieves has put in with the pitching staff.
|
|
|
Post by Oregon Norm on May 7, 2015 19:28:17 GMT -5
Limitless hyperbole, perfect for pulling in eyeballs. I notice he mentioned Porcello as part of the staff, then he buried him for the rest of the "analysis". That would, of course, have screwed up the narrative badly. Easy to tell Miley's going to be the whipping boy in this parade. On we go...
|
|
|
Post by sarasoxer on May 7, 2015 19:42:48 GMT -5
I was listening to Inside Pitch with Jim Bowden on XM radio this p.m. during a long drive. Jim and his co-host opined that the Sox had two number three starters (Buch and Porcello), a 4, a 5 and a 7 (Masterson). In their opinion, no team had ever won a world series with that kind of staff. They felt that the Sox were two top starters away and in need of significant bullpen help too. To them it was the age-old story...fire the pitching coach or the manager but not the GM who hired the personnel.
I would bet that Farrell is in the on-deck circle followed by Cherington if things don't turn around.
|
|
|
Post by mgoetze on May 7, 2015 19:55:04 GMT -5
Jim and his co-host opined that the Sox had two number three starters (Buch and Porcello), a 4, a 5 and a 7 (Masterson). It's really too bad there isn't some more objective way to judge the quality of a pitcher. Oh well, at least we have radio stations to select especially knowledgable people for us so we can listen to their opinions.
|
|
|
Post by telson13 on May 7, 2015 19:55:29 GMT -5
I was listening to Inside Pitch with Jim Bowden on XM radio this p.m. during a long drive. Jim and his co-host opined that the Sox had two number three starters (Buch and Porcello), a 4, a 5 and a 7 (Masterson). In their opinion, no team had ever won a world series with that kind of staff. They felt that the Sox were two top starters away and in need of significant bullpen help too. To them it was the age-old story...fire the pitching coach or the manager but not the GM who hired the personnel. I would bet that Farrell is in the on-deck circle followed by Cherington if things don't turn around. There's a reason Bowden is no longer a GM, and his opinions as relayed by you, here, are a stellar example.
|
|
|
Post by Oregon Norm on May 7, 2015 19:58:44 GMT -5
Bowden and Stern, if that's who it was, blow more steam than a 30 year old furnace. I end up switching them off when it gets really bad, thanks to the near absence of usable insights.
They largely ignore numbers in their chatter about players, so the idea of a rating system for pitchers begs the question of where they pulled that out of. I'll let you guess at that. I think I've got the general location pinpointed.
|
|
|
Post by telson13 on May 7, 2015 20:03:45 GMT -5
I was listening to Inside Pitch with Jim Bowden on XM radio this p.m. during a long drive. Jim and his co-host opined that the Sox had two number three starters (Buch and Porcello), a 4, a 5 and a 7 (Masterson). In their opinion, no team had ever won a world series with that kind of staff. They felt that the Sox were two top starters away and in need of significant bullpen help too. To them it was the age-old story...fire the pitching coach or the manager but not the GM who hired the personnel. I would bet that Farrell is in the on-deck circle followed by Cherington if things don't turn around. And, if one looks back to 2013, Lester was barely above league-average, and they had Doubront and Peavy getting a substantial number of starts. Lackey was basically a three, so along with Lester, that's pretty much a 2/3, 3, 4,5, 7 (Dempster). All it took was a half-season of consistency from Clay to put them over the top. Not to belabor the point, but the starters' peripherals (and hence SIERA) suggest that they've had a lot of bad luck. With the offense hitting .209 with RISP (anyone want to rationalize how THAT isn't simple SSS bad luck? Be my guest), they've had all-around bad luck and that they're only two games under .500 should be comforting. If that RISP number were in line with their BA, they'd be 2 or 4 games over .500. And if their pitchers' ERAs were in line with their SIERAs, they'd be healthily in first. WAY, WAY too early to start calling this a disaster.
|
|
|
Post by DesignatedForAssignment on May 7, 2015 20:12:50 GMT -5
In the post-Pedro era, SoxNation has yet to sober up. And Jim Lonborg ain't walking through that door either ...
If fans don't like this Sox '15 team, then they don't like baseball. Real baseball.
|
|
|
Post by Chris Hatfield on May 7, 2015 20:50:59 GMT -5
In the post-Pedro era, SoxNation has yet to sober up. And Jim Lonborg ain't walking through that door either ... If fans don't like this Sox '15 team, then they don't like baseball. Real baseball. I love baseball. I am a big fan of players on this team. The team itself? One of my least favorite in recent memory.
|
|
|