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Post by grandsalami on May 7, 2015 13:25:53 GMT -5
Evan Brunell ?@evanbrunell now If Sox are “working on replacement” for Nieves that more than likely means external add. Is @pgammo on target w/ Charles Nagy namedrop?
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Post by Gwell55 on May 7, 2015 13:25:59 GMT -5
Team management is on the hot seat. What is the biggest problem? The last place pitching staff. Farrell is a former pitching coach. Anything we say is speculation but my guess is that probably he is holding his people accountable for their performance and that starts with the guy in charge of the pitching staff. Farrell is not happy with his chosen mamager of the pitching staff and it doesn't seem to be improving any time soon. He needs better performance from the group, so he's moving in a different direction so to speak.. Farrell awhile back (week or so I think it was) stated that he had to work more than he ever had with the pitchers. That comment kind of looms large to me right now. In fact that wouldn't surprise me if that is the real reason Juan is gone.
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Post by grandsalami on May 7, 2015 13:26:32 GMT -5
Maureen Mullen ?@maureenamullen 35s35 seconds ago Farrell: not sure "connection was made with current group" of starting pitchers by Nieves
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Post by Guidas on May 7, 2015 13:26:39 GMT -5
There's a difference between saying "this pitching staff has been the worst in the majors so far" (which even mgoetze would probably admit is true) and saying "this pitching staff is the worst in the majors so far" (suggesting that they will be the worst pitching staff in the league going forward). I'm pretty confident that, even ignoring internal promotions and external additions, the five guys in the current rotation will not, from this point forward, have the worst ERA (or B-R WAR) in the league through the rest of the season. SIERA is way more predictive of what they'll be going forward. But I imagine pitchers' confidence is still tied mainly to their own results and probably don't feel too great about a 6-7 run game where they would normally only allow 3 runs. So maybe this move resets some of that discouragement. I know how frustrated I get when I see so many ground ball singles in a row or when an umpire squeezes them with two outs and they go on to score 4 runs when the inning should have been over. I can't imagine how frustrated they are. I agree with this and as much as we grouse and grumble here, it's easy to forget that these are human beings - and young ones at that - and that players from every generation cite "confidence" and "attitude" virtually every time they talk about performance. We like to look at the numbers but a run of buzzard luck has to play with their minds, especially when some of these guys are so high strung and creatures of habit and repetition.
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Post by grandsalami on May 7, 2015 13:27:51 GMT -5
Rob Bradford ?@bradfo 13s13 seconds ago Cherington: 'Nothing happened specifically recently that precipitated this' (in regards to Nieves dismissal)
Rob Bradford ?@bradfo now Perceived inability by Nieves to get through to current group of starters like he had with previous rotations seems biggest issue
im Britton ?@timbritton 6s6 seconds ago Farrell: "The biggest thing is the [next] pitching coach has to have the ability to connect and adjust."
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Post by jmei on May 7, 2015 13:28:49 GMT -5
Rob Bradford ?@bradfo 13s13 seconds ago Cherington: 'Nothing happened specifically recently that precipitated this' (in regards to Nieves dismissal) No need to post every tweet in a new post. Please edit an existing post to add new information. Thanks.
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Post by Guidas on May 7, 2015 13:29:04 GMT -5
When I start thinking about this more, it's not hard to see the indicators that there was something wrong with Nieves. The comments about none of the pitchers pitching inside and then when Mujica and Koji were throwing like 90% splitters was pretty ridiculous in hindsight. That's on the coaching. I think your other point about the catchers is valid here too. Unless they were expressly prohibited from calling inside pitches or mixing it up. Goes back to what I heard from the college coach the other day railing against the quality of game calling over all. Something had been lost in the communication chain, that's for sure.
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Post by mgoetze on May 7, 2015 13:39:38 GMT -5
There's a difference between saying "this pitching staff has been the worst in the majors so far" (which even mgoetze would probably admit is true) I ... don't see how you come to that assumption. SIERA is not a projection system. "How well has this guy pitched so far?" is exactly the question SIERA tries to answer.
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Post by jimed14 on May 7, 2015 13:50:32 GMT -5
There's a difference between saying "this pitching staff has been the worst in the majors so far" (which even mgoetze would probably admit is true) I ... don't see how you come to that assumption. SIERA is not a projection system. "How well has this guy pitched so far?" is exactly the question SIERA tries to answer. SIERA is more of a projection system for pitchers than any other stat.
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Post by grandsalami on May 7, 2015 13:53:28 GMT -5
Give me Pedro or Tek!
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Post by mgoetze on May 7, 2015 13:54:33 GMT -5
I ... don't see how you come to that assumption. SIERA is not a projection system. "How well has this guy pitched so far?" is exactly the question SIERA tries to answer. SIERA is more of a projection system for pitchers than any other stat. It happens to work very well as a projection system, but that's not the original design goal.
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Post by jimed14 on May 7, 2015 13:56:35 GMT -5
Pedro seems like the kind of guy who doesn't want a fulltime gig. And I'd take Varitek over Farrell. Have there been many catchers who can coach pitchers? Varitek would be unbelievable at game planning, but can he fix mechanics of pitchers?
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Post by grandsalami on May 7, 2015 13:56:54 GMT -5
Maureen Mullen ?@maureenamullen 18s18 seconds ago Possible RedSox pitching coach candidates: Treuel, Kipper, Sauveur...
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Post by telson13 on May 7, 2015 14:01:27 GMT -5
Well until the new pitching coach is hired, "Pedro, Pedro, Pedro" will be my mantra. You have to will it people. That's actually a very interesting thought. I know there's the issue of a great player not necessarily being able to teach greatness (Ted Williams being the prime example), but Pedro seems to have a knack for communication. He's also very thoughtful and intelligent, and he obviously understands pitching, and pitching mechanics. I think they'll probably promote Bob Kipper (who's done a great job with their AA/AAA guys), and I'm all for it. But Pedro getting the job would be awesome.
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Post by marrcus on May 7, 2015 14:02:05 GMT -5
A lot of things going on. I didn't say it at the time but I thought ST was lousy. It set a certain tone. No question losing Vasquez hurt but this just seems to be attitude related. Things shouldn't be this bad and I'm not blaming Nieves.
If Betts didn't hit the HR's they would have been swept again. Ugly.
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Post by jimed14 on May 7, 2015 14:07:14 GMT -5
If Betts didn't hit the HR's they would have been swept again. Ugly. If Longoria didn't hit the HR's they would have won 2 of 3.
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Post by grandsalami on May 7, 2015 14:07:37 GMT -5
Ken Rosenthal ?@ken_Rosenthal 4m4 minutes ago Sources: #Indians Triple A pitching coach Carl Willis a candidate to replace Juan Nieves as pitching coach with #RedSox.
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Post by jmei on May 7, 2015 14:08:52 GMT -5
SIERA is more of a projection system for pitchers than any other stat. It happens to work very well as a projection system, but that's not the original design goal. I don't want to get too deep into the weeds here, but SIERA is more prescriptive than descriptive and was always intended to be. See, e.g., here. That's why you're not going to see SIERA-based WAR anytime soon.
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Post by grandsalami on May 7, 2015 14:20:44 GMT -5
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Post by Oregon Norm on May 7, 2015 14:49:08 GMT -5
So a couple of thoughts here. I think we all understand that the pitching is in motion right now. Just as the team has sought to incorporate new position players onto the roster, all indications are they'll be doing the same with pitchers who've made their way up the minor league system and are knocking on the door. It's been clear for a while that Masterson will probably be working from the bullpen, and that may even be why the team didn't bother re-signing Badenhop.
Come on, guys and gals. Changing out the pitching coach isn't the end-all for a team. Coaches get replaced all the time. And the idea that Cherrington or Farrell are next in line is just laughable. I can almost guage who, among the posters, is living with their ears tuned to talk radio, and that's an embarrassment.
This isn't the end, it's just the beginning. Go back and read through the off-season threads. It's been obvious since last season that the team would be in the process of a rotation rebuild. This is part of what it looks like, and it has barely started.
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Post by Guidas on May 7, 2015 15:02:52 GMT -5
If Betts didn't hit the HR's they would have been swept again. Ugly. If Longoria didn't hit the HR's they would have won 2 of 3. And the would've won the 2008 World Series.
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Post by jimed14 on May 7, 2015 15:03:14 GMT -5
I think I was chastised for mentioning this last year, but there are several bridge years involved when you're trying to replace Papi, Lester, etc. with Xander, Mookie, Vazquez, Swihart and some of the starting pitcher prospects and others that haven't made it yet. And they're still in a great position to win in the meantime.
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2015 15:11:20 GMT -5
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Post by mattpicard on May 7, 2015 15:19:02 GMT -5
I think I was chastised for mentioning this last year, but there are several bridge years involved when you're trying to replace Papi, Lester, etc. with Xander, Mookie, Vazquez, Swihart and some of the starting pitcher prospects and others that haven't made it yet. And they're still in a great position to win in the meantime. I guess it comes down to how you define it, but if the team is in a great position to win in the present, are they really bridge years?
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Post by brianthetaoist on May 7, 2015 15:21:03 GMT -5
I think I was chastised for mentioning this last year, but there are several bridge years involved when you're trying to replace Papi, Lester, etc. with Xander, Mookie, Vazquez, Swihart and some of the starting pitcher prospects and others that haven't made it yet. And they're still in a great position to win in the meantime. Yeah, I've been saying this for a while ... the team developed very, very little talent for its own roster for a few years there. They thought they bought a new core with the Gonzalez/Crawford team, but that blew up with nothing behind it. They've been patching as they go, and there's some risk involved with that. One year, it paid off amazingly, another year, not so much. Now, the position players look to be in pretty good shape for a while, and they are still trying to transition their pitching staff.
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