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Post by texs31 on Jul 8, 2015 13:02:15 GMT -5
True or not, Boston supposedly offered Sully in a package to get to #4. Granted, it may have been bs but it's not outlandish.
Look, I get that GMs aren't going to blast their players, especially ones they are trying to trade. But it's not like Sully's weight (and committment too his body, or lack there of) is a big secret. One could argue, it makes all the positive things you say about a guy more believable to another team (especially stuff they don' see day in and day out) if you're not glossing over obvious deficiences.
I'd be suprised if it's offloading him for a pick or comparable player. To me this would/should be about packaging him with something(one) else to make a bigger move.
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Post by jmei on Jul 8, 2015 13:17:18 GMT -5
Lee barely played last year. He was better two years ago, but prior to that, he routinely ranked as one of the worst defenders in the league per a host of advanced stats and scouting reports.
Don't really want to discuss further, but there's also the time Sullinger beat up his girlfriend.
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Post by texs31 on Jul 8, 2015 13:19:06 GMT -5
Reading the NBA tweets is great enterainment right now. Per Wojo, JJ Redick "has been mobilized" to try and get DJ to reconsider.
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Post by Don Caballero on Jul 8, 2015 19:08:53 GMT -5
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Jul 9, 2015 10:15:23 GMT -5
So much drama over a mediocre center.
The Mavs will probably be better off long term now that they won't be stuck with Jordan's (inevitably) horrible contract after Dirk retires. And the Celts, of course, came out like bandits once again.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 9, 2015 10:38:00 GMT -5
Lee barely played last year. He was better two years ago, but prior to that, he routinely ranked as one of the worst defenders in the league per a host of advanced stats and scouting reports. Don't really want to discuss further, but there's also the time Sullinger beat up his girlfriend. LOL |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 9, 2015 10:46:09 GMT -5
So much drama over a mediocre center. The Mavs will probably be better off long term now that they won't be stuck with Jordan's (inevitably) horrible contract after Dirk retires. And the Celts, of course, came out like bandits once again. So who do you think is a stud center? Johnson was #1 in WAR last year for centers, better then Cousins and was 4th in RPM. He had the 10th best WAR in the whole league last year. There was a reason why a ton of teams were chasing after him, he is one of the best centers in the league. Why do you think he is mediocre? Because of his FT%? Shaq couldn't hit FT either. |
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Post by wcp3 on Jul 9, 2015 10:56:13 GMT -5
His defense (good, but overrated) and rebounding are his best attributes by far ... but his FT percentage makes it almost impossible to play him at the end of games. Which, by the way, is kind of when you want to have your best defensive lineup on the court.
He's also a useless back-to-the-basket player and clogs the paint for Blake and CP3 to do their thing (although he would've been a great pairing with Dirk for the next 1-2 years).
Gasol and the 2014-15 Hortord are the closest to stud centers, but the reality is that stud centers don't really don't exist these days. The best "centers" these days are guys like Anthony Davis, who can lock down the paint while also being extremely versatile.
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Post by jmei on Jul 9, 2015 11:11:31 GMT -5
He's an elite P-n-R finisher. Guys like that add a ton of offensive value by sucking in the defense and opening up shooters along the perimeter. He's probably a little overrated, but he's probably one of the five or six or so best centers in the league (I'd have him behind M. Gasol, Cousins, Horford, and Bosh; that's probably it).
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Post by texs31 on Jul 9, 2015 11:26:35 GMT -5
I do think the traditional Depth Charts are becoming antiquated (so worry about what rank a C is among other C's isn't that helpful).
In a recent article, I believe Forsberg referred to a 4-Position System that Stevens employs (Ball Handlers, Wings, Swings and Bigs). I hadn't heard about that previously but it does make more sense. Did we really have a traditional C last year? Didn't Turner have the ball in his hands as much as anyone when he was in the lineup? Outside of Boston, doesn't the PG in Houston's office act more like a SG (given how much Harden drives the offense)? Same with LAL when Kobe's healthy.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 9, 2015 13:09:47 GMT -5
Zeller is a traditional center.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 9, 2015 23:00:50 GMT -5
Summer League Update;
Smart had 22 points, 7 ast and 3 steals, Rozier had 16, 7 and 1(4-4FT). Hunter had 18, 4-4 from 3p and 6-6 from FT. Mikey had 9 points and 9 rebounds.
Both Smart, Rozier and Hunter shot it well from deep. But no FT for Smart, while Rozier and Hunter got to the line a good amount. I'm worried as I think Smart should be getting to line 5-7 times a game.
Have to say that All three rookies are having a good showing so far. I know this is Hunters for good game but he just looks better then Young already. NBA.com is reporting that he already looks better then James Young on D.
James Young is yet to have a good game and really looks lost. Overall not bad 4/5 players playing well.
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Post by trotnixonforever on Jul 10, 2015 8:58:57 GMT -5
So now the Mavs are trying to get Deron Williams. this is great from a Celtics perspective. It pretty much guarantees that the Nets will be in the lottery this year if they move Williams (not that he's very good anymore, but he's clearly better than any other PG they've got on the roster). This would make the Nets one injury to Joe Johnson (or a trade of Joe Johnson) or Brook Lopez away from being really bad. Possibly one of the five worst teams.
Then you consider the Mavs. Even with Williams I have hard time seeing them making the playoffs in the West. But adding him makes them too good to finish in the bottom 7. So we could very easily have 3 1st round picks (2 in the lottery), plus $50 mil in cap space next year (if they waive/trade the non guaranteed contracts of Amir Johnson and Jonas Jerebko)
I also think Sully and Evan Turner get moved sometime between now and the trading deadline in February. There's too much of a logjam at their positions and neither fits into the long term future of the team.
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Post by wcp3 on Jul 10, 2015 9:47:10 GMT -5
You have to think the Nets will do everything they can to dump Joe Johnson - makes zero sense to hang onto him and his contract when they're clearly not a playoff team this year. In hindsight, it's unbelievable how much Ainge stole from them.
I may be in the minority here, but I don't think the Celtics will actively try to trade Sullinger. They seem motivated to get him into shape, and I'm not sure you invest that much time in a guy if there's a 0% chance he's a keeper.
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Post by wcp3 on Jul 10, 2015 10:10:59 GMT -5
Re: Smart getting to the line, the FTs weren't there last night, but he was tooling on defenders and getting in the paint at will. That forced multiple guys to collapse, and Smart found an open shooter like an NBA point guard is supposed to (something he wasn't doing last season). I think he got 5/7 assists that way.
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Post by texs31 on Jul 10, 2015 10:13:59 GMT -5
I don't think they'll actively try and move him but it wouldn't suprise me if he's moved as part of package that leads to an upgrade somewhere.
If you believe the rumors, there were pre-draft dicussions with some teams about him.
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Post by wcp3 on Jul 10, 2015 10:23:03 GMT -5
I don't think they'll actively try and move him but it wouldn't suprise me if he's moved as part of package that leads to an upgrade somewhere. If you believe the rumors, there were pre-draft dicussions with some teams about him. It wouldn't surprise me if anyone on the team got moved.  Don't get me wrong, I think it's more likely they trade him than him being here for the future. But he shouldn't be lumped in with a guy like Turner. |
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Post by texs31 on Jul 10, 2015 10:26:01 GMT -5
Smart***
I agree though. Everyone is movable but the categories of circumstances differ. I think Sully is a lot closer to Smart in the "only part of a package for a serious upgrade" category than Turner, who is in the "we improved your value now we're hoping to cash in" category.
EDIT - and by "cash in", I don't mean to suggest they are going to be able to get anything special for him. Just that he's showed some value and improved upon the impression that he left in Indy. I could see a 2nd rounder for him
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Post by trotnixonforever on Jul 10, 2015 10:35:53 GMT -5
I don't see how Sully steals minutes from David Lee and Amir Johnson this season. So why keep him?
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Post by wcp3 on Jul 10, 2015 10:49:07 GMT -5
As of now, I don't think anyone has a clue how the rotation will play out.
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Post by texs31 on Jul 10, 2015 11:26:00 GMT -5
I'm interested to see what BRK does with Johnson. Normally, you'd say dump your good but expensive players if you're going to not be a playoff team. But with Boston owning all of their draft picks for the next 3 years (well, 2 of 3 with right to swap in the middle of those 3 years) they don't improve their future by being bad.
He's money comes off the books next year anyway so moving him doesn't improve your cap space. So the question is what do they want in exchange for him? Do they just want to reduce their Luxury Tax bill for this year and maintain their cap space for next (hence the Cle/Brendan Haywood discussions) or do they see him as the only way to get some younger assets for him.
Not sure WHAT the right answer.
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Post by wcp3 on Jul 10, 2015 11:53:59 GMT -5
I think the goal would be luxury tax relief and hopefully getting SOME value in return.
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Post by texs31 on Jul 10, 2015 17:30:58 GMT -5
BRK has completed the buyout with Williams and they will stretch the buyout over 5 years. Reduces his hit by almost 15 and they are no longer a tax team.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 11, 2015 17:52:50 GMT -5
I don't see how Sully steals minutes from David Lee and Amir Johnson this season. So why keep him? Sullinger is the most complete PF on our team. He can score, rebound, pass and play OK D. Johnson is going to play center, as a starter or back up, as his numbers last year were way better at center. I see David Lee as a bench player for this team and would start Sullinger over him. I still think if Sullinger gets in shape and stops thinking he is Ray Allen from deep, he has All Star upside. You don't just trade that away for nothing cause you have Lee and Johnson. I really like Lee he adds depth and a veteran to a young team, but I would be shocked if he was starting for this team. As jmei point out he is older and will not be part of the core for the future. So you don't stunt the development of Sullinger and Olynyk because you know have David Lee.
Now if you can trade Sullinger and get fair value I would consider it, but I just don't see that happening
Still think Sullinger and Zeller start with Lee, Johnson and Olynyk coming off bench. Chances are an injury to one of these players will clear the log jam if A trade doesn't.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 11, 2015 18:04:06 GMT -5
BRK has completed the buyout with Williams and they will stretch the buyout over 5 years. Reduces his hit by almost 15 and they are no longer a tax team. Just wanted to thank the Nets. The chances we get a lottery pick next year just went way up. With an owner worth billions, this makes no sense at all. The only thing they gain is a lower tax bill and a little more cap room next year. But almost every team next year will be able to sign a max free agent and they would have too with Johnsons salary coming off the books, makes no sense. What free agent is going to want to go to a Nets team that has no good players? Look at the Knicks and Lakers, they just can't get good free agents because they have so little talent on roster. So the Nets can now sign two max guys instead of one? They would be lucky if one max guy would be willing to play for them next year. Now they will be lucky to make playoffs and that won't help them recruit any players. As overpaid as Williams was, he was still rated as a top 15 PG last year and there was always the chance that if fully healthy he could have a bounce back year.
I hate to say this, but I really hope Lopez gets injured, we might get a top 3 pick.
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