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2015 Boston Celtics Offseason
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Post by texs31 on May 12, 2015 9:55:01 GMT -5
Because I'm tired of the Non-Sox posts all being about the scuffing of baseballs (Oops, I meant deflating of footballs) and because the season is over for Boston and the offseason is upon us, I bring to you the Offseason thread. I'll kick it off with the latest rumor (I think we can call it that) from A. Sherrod Blakely: www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2015/05/boston_celtics_rumors_2015_lam.htmlMakes sense that Boston would do what it takes to get a player like LaMarcus but I'm not a huge fan of Matthews (probably no rationale for it since I don't see any of Portland's games). I don't, however, see LA leaving the Western Conference (he's rumored to prefer a Texas team). |
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Post by jmei on May 12, 2015 10:02:37 GMT -5
Of course the Celtics are going to be "open" to adding Aldridge, but I think it's almost impossible that he leaves Portland for Boston. Beyond the obvious reasons, he's going to want to play PF next to a legit center, which the Celtics don't have.
I've always liked Wes Matthews, though, and he could be a nice buy-low candidate. He's coming off that achillies injury that is one of the more career-threatening ones out there, but that just means his price tag is going to be low.
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wcp3
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Posts: 3,860
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Post by wcp3 on May 12, 2015 10:37:53 GMT -5
There's lots of attention being paid to Aldridge (will probably end up in SA) and Love (Cleveland or LA), but the guy I think is the most likely is Cousins.
He'd be exceptional in Stevens' system.
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Post by texs31 on May 12, 2015 10:59:14 GMT -5
Sure. Hard time seeing a pairing between the 2 teams, though. Have to believe Smart and 1 or more of BRK's picks would be a part of it for starters.
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Post by philarhody on May 21, 2015 6:04:16 GMT -5
Sure. Hard time seeing a pairing between the 2 teams, though. Have to believe Smart and 1 or more of BRK's picks would be a part of it for starters. Smart, sullinger and two Brooklyn firsts might get it done if sacramento becomes motivated to sell |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 21, 2015 22:20:58 GMT -5
I don't get giving up Smart. For one he didn't have a great rookie season so value is lower then when you picked him. Second he is the one player on the team, outside maybe Young that has all star potential. Yes I think Youngs unspide is that high, much smaller chance he reachers his ceiling though when compared to Smart. Sure Cousin would be great, but you need talent around him or what's the point? Right now Smart is not someone I would trade not even for Cousin. The reason is that by this time next year Smart could be seen as having value close to what Cousins is. Sure you might think that's crazy but we didn't see Smarts scoring game at all this year and based on two years of College his is a bull for a pg and we just didn't see that. Smart was one of the better guards in College at getting to the lane and we almost saw none of that last year. Watch out next year, mark my words!
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Post by texs31 on May 21, 2015 22:49:21 GMT -5
I'm not sure Phil was advocating for trading Smart. Just indicating what it would take. I agree with him that you don't get Cousins without giving up Smart. Whether Ainge should consider it is quite the debate.
I'd also say that Sully has little value right now. If I'm Sacramento and it's between Sully and Zeller, I'd prefer Zeller right now.
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Post by philarhody on May 24, 2015 19:42:46 GMT -5
I don't get giving up Smart. For one he didn't have a great rookie season so value is lower then when you picked him. Second he is the one player on the team, outside maybe Young that has all star potential. Yes I think Youngs unspide is that high, much smaller chance he reachers his ceiling though when compared to Smart. Sure Cousin would be great, but you need talent around him or what's the point? Right now Smart is not someone I would trade not even for Cousin. The reason is that by this time next year Smart could be seen as having value close to what Cousins is. Sure you might think that's crazy but we didn't see Smarts scoring game at all this year and based on two years of College his is a bull for a pg and we just didn't see that. Smart was one of the better guards in College at getting to the lane and we almost saw none of that last year. Watch out next year, mark my words! In other words, you don't want Demarcus Cousins. Because anything outside of our best young guard + isn't going to get us a top 10 player IN THE WORLD. Let me ask you something Umass: what players would be worth giving up Smart for? You've piqued my curiosity |
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Post by texs31 on Jun 2, 2015 16:04:54 GMT -5
Because I'm bored and anxious for the offseason to start, I've been thinking alot about what we can do to improve this offseason and, not suprisingly, am starting with the draft.
Most folks believe that we can get a solid player at 16 but likely not a star. I also don't think that we'll be able to trade up enough to get one. So it's likely that Danny will try and package 16 with either 28, 33 or 45 to move up enough to get a target player (someone that they like more than the others within the "tier" that they're looking at). I'd also imagine that a pick would be used on a stash player. Assuming it's not used as part of a trade, #28 might be ideal as it would provide further cap flexibility by waiting a year (or more) to use that slot.
With either 33 or 45 (or both if no trade), I'd like to see Boston use the pick(s) on a wildcard. Basically, targeting someone who may have been a highly touted recruit whos peformance (for one reason or another) was not up to expectations. I'm thinking of a Chris Walker or Andrew Harrison. At this point, why not take someone in the second round who was once thought of as a potential lottery pick???
That being said, I'm not sure how I'd feel about drafting Robert Upshaw who brings an elite skill (rim protection) but also a lot of baggage (and some pre-draft information suggests that execs are worried it'll get worse with money). Maybe as a second rounder, it's okay bc it's easy enough to walk away. Not sure on that one.
Anyway, nothing THAT informative hear but I'm frustrated with the Sox (and not overly exicted about what we might get in next week's draft) and just anxiously awaiting the start of the offseason for the NBA so I thought I'd post (plus Andrew Harrison worked out for Boston today so it the above thinking to my thought process).
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Post by jmei on Jun 2, 2015 16:11:56 GMT -5
There are occasional rumors that the Bulls will make Joakim Noah available this offseason, since he fits poorly with Pau Gasol. He's the kind of under-the-radar acquisition I think Danny would be all over and would fit like a glove in Stevens' system. Something like Noah for Avery Bradley or Isaiah Thomas plus Evan Turner works.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,860
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Post by wcp3 on Jun 2, 2015 18:51:45 GMT -5
From what I've heard, Noah's knees are in even worse shape for the long term than most people realize. If it isn't bone on bone at this point, it's really close.
I'd be a little nervous to see the Celtics invest in him for the future.
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Post by texs31 on Jun 2, 2015 20:33:48 GMT -5
Do you guys have any thoughts on Kosta Koufos? I don't see a lot of Memphis games so I don't know if he's a guy who is stuck behind a star (Gasol) and waiting to break out or the type that gets exposed as he sees more playing time? His limited starting splits suggest he doesn't get worse with more time but his counting stats don't markedly increase with the extra (sometimes doubled) time.
Thoughts on him?
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 3, 2015 2:59:14 GMT -5
I don't get giving up Smart. For one he didn't have a great rookie season so value is lower then when you picked him. Second he is the one player on the team, outside maybe Young that has all star potential. Yes I think Youngs unspide is that high, much smaller chance he reachers his ceiling though when compared to Smart. Sure Cousin would be great, but you need talent around him or what's the point? Right now Smart is not someone I would trade not even for Cousin. The reason is that by this time next year Smart could be seen as having value close to what Cousins is. Sure you might think that's crazy but we didn't see Smarts scoring game at all this year and based on two years of College his is a bull for a pg and we just didn't see that. Smart was one of the better guards in College at getting to the lane and we almost saw none of that last year. Watch out next year, mark my words! In other words, you don't want Demarcus Cousins. Because anything outside of our best young guard + isn't going to get us a top 10 player IN THE WORLD. Let me ask you something Umass: what players would be worth giving up Smart for? You've piqued my curiosity I very much want Cousin, but I am not trading Smart while his value is low. The number 6 pick had more value then Smart does now after A so so rookie season. You also want to trade both nets picks which are mostly likely our best chance at getting high lottery talent. I would trade Smart for Cousins in a heart beat, but you want to also trade Sullinger who's value is also at an all time low and our best two future picks. That I don't want to do. Take out Smart and insert James Young and I would make that deal. I just see Smarts upside as being all star when his scoring comes around and based on his college stats its only a matter of time. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 3, 2015 3:12:20 GMT -5
I really like this Draft seems to be really deep and we have a crap load of picks. That's why I am not crazy about the idea of trading all those picks to move up. There are only a few players like Stanley Johnson who I feel its worth trading up for. Not thinking we have a shot at a top 5 pick. WCS who many people feel the Celtics will trade up for scares me to death. Yes I think he will be a great defender, but what else does he do well? He's not a Tyson Chandler/ DeAndre Jordon type because he is not a great rebounder. But Stanley Johnson reminds me of Paul Pierce, a good athlete, but not great, Does a little bit of everything. Think he will be one of the better players to come out of this draft.
Upshaw is a player I love and would consider him at 16, but would almost have to take him with our second pick if he was still there. Unless he is so crazy he is out of the league in a few years. Man I hope he is just troubled and not full blown crazy.
Lets say we keep all of our picks who do you guys think we should draft?
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Post by texs31 on Jun 3, 2015 6:14:51 GMT -5
I don't think they'll trade up to get a top 10 guy. I'm thinking they might trade ONE of the extra picks and move up a few spots (like they did for KO) to get someone that they specifically like. For example, IF they like Myles Turner and it's looking like he'll be gone around 11, maybe move up and get him (not endorsing, just an example).
So I can see the end game being:
A Top 12-14 pick
A European "stash" player
A "Wild Card" player (high talent but didn't pan out in college).
Conversely, if the quality of players is pretty constant through the, say 15-25 range, I could see them staying pat with 16 and adding one of the second rounders to 28 to move up a few picks (again, to target a specific player). I know many folks on here aren't big Chad Ford fans but he is the only draft guy who breaks the prospects down into tiers. I'm interested in seeing that, if only to get a sense of where the dropoff(s) are.
Either way, I'd still like to take a stab at a former top recruit type (not sure about Upshaw though, especially not in the first round) to see if we can't hit on something big.
We need stars and, while the depth is good and we could easily get 1, if not 2, rotation players out of this year. We need to find a way to get a top talent. Where we are, taking a risk might actually be our best shot.
On Cousins, I just don't see how it works without Smart. If we TRY and create the parallel of the Kevin Garnett deal (and you can EASILY argue that, unless DC pulls a power play to get traded to Boston, a trade with SAC will be more costly), wouldn't James Young be the Gerald Green in a trade? Now we could easily come up with 2 1st rounders as well as the Gomes/Telfair/Ratliff combination (which was, largely, to offset salaries). But aren't we still missing the Al Jefferson player in the package? He was the headliner and the rationalization for Minnesota. The ONLY player we have close to that is Smart and he's a) not a C like AJ was and b) not as accomplished as Big Al at the time of the trade.
Again, unless Cousins pulls something to get it done, Sacramento is going to need a little more of a "sure thing" if they are to trade someone of that caliber.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 5, 2015 14:20:48 GMT -5
Along with Stanley Johnson, Myles Turner is another player I am very high on. Those are two players I would like to see Danny trade up for if the cost is fair.
After the first 10-12 picks I think the talent level is very even all the way to the second round where a player like Jordan Mickey could be a huge steal as a Ben Wallace type player. The depth in the draft is some of the best I have every seen. I think you are going to have 5-10 players in the second round that have long NBA careers.
Yes James Young is a Gerald Green type prospect, though I think he has a higher trade value because of lack of playing time. Green had the bust label when we traded him, as he played a lot and it revealed his many weaknesses. I see Sullinger as the Al Jefferson in a Cousin trade, heck when you add in D he might be a more complete player. I know I am higher on Sullinger then most, but I see a 20 points, 10 rebound, 3.5 assists season in the near future. He just needs to get in better shape and stop taking some many 3 pointers. Remember if it wasn't for the back worries, which haven't been an issue in 2 years since surgery he was projected as a top 5 pick! I think it was Pelton with ESPN that did his PER ranking for when they play in NBA and Sullinger was second in the whole draft at 19.5 if I remember right. Last season which was a mess for him, he still put up a per of 17.93.
Onto the Smart and Big Al comp, nope big Al had two season to show his stuff. After next season I think Smart will be seen as a much better prospect then big Al. He is a much more complete player. Big Al for some reason is just awful at D. I don't get it as he has the ability to be a good defender, just never has been besides some blocked shots. Also Big Al is only a center because his Bad D plays better there against slower players, he should be a power forward.
The other huge difference in the KG trade and the Cousin trade talk is the future picks. The Wolves knew they would be a getting a couple of low first rounder's from Boston. In the Cousin trade we are sending then the two Nets picks, which could both be lottery picks. Heck they could both be top 5 picks, you just don't know. But we do know that its almost a 100% chance they are going to be better then the two picks Boston sent to the Wolves in the KG trade!
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Post by texs31 on Jun 5, 2015 15:33:14 GMT -5
Based on the descriptions, I think I'd like Turner as well. Consensus among Mocks is that he'd be in the 11 (Indiana) to 15 (Atlanta) range so Boston would likely have to move up a bit, at least.
Chad Ford Warning: He believes that if teams can make themselves comfortable with his "medicals" (not that current injuries are an issue but some believe that the way he runs is an indication of future knee issues), he'll actually start climbing draft boards as he'd be a lesser version of Towns (FC who can hit 3s and protect the rim). Gotta believe that could make him intriguing for both Orlando at 5 and Sacramento at 6 (both of whom have Cs who can score but not really protect the rim). Detroit has a shot blocker but Turner would be good for spacing. I'm leaning towards Charlotte taking a shooter at a wing position (hoping for Hezonja to drop but may "reach" for Booker??). Miami??
I guess my point is, his range could end up not just being 11-15 but 5-15.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,860
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Post by wcp3 on Jun 6, 2015 8:44:29 GMT -5
My annual Chad Ford warning: never take anything he says seriously. He's one of the worst ones out there.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 10, 2015 17:36:57 GMT -5
Rumors Celtics are looking to package both first rounder's to move up in draft. How far do you think 16 and 28 gets us? Also who do you think they are after?
If the Celtics are making this trade pre draft I think they need to get to 10 or 11 or I don't see the point. Oh course if its on draft night I would mind if it was 12 or 13 if a certain player was there that you really liked. 14 and 15 should only take our high second rounder at most in trade.
In that Range Stanley Johnson and Myles Turner are two players that really make sense. With Stanley Johnson being a clear cut #1 for me if he is still on the board. A player that can come in and help next year. I really like Turner but reports stat he is really raw and could take years to develop. Also in that range a player like WCS might drop or someone else.
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wcp3
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Posts: 3,860
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Post by wcp3 on Jun 11, 2015 6:55:55 GMT -5
Getting a player that can help next year isn't the priority here; it's getting the best player who's left.
Ainge is on record as saying he pretty much doesn't care about making the playoffs. so if he likes Turner better than Johnson, that's who he'd take.
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Post by texs31 on Jun 11, 2015 15:07:43 GMT -5
To date, it doesn't seem like they have had anyone in that wouldn't be reasonably attainable right where the C's are drafting. A part of me wonders if Boston is "leaking" that they are aggressively trying to move up, at least in part, so that they can convince agents of lower lottery picks to bring their clients in for workouts.
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Post by texs31 on Jun 15, 2015 21:03:32 GMT -5
Pretty good suggestion from . . . Brad Sword (or someone whose name rhymes but doesn't have any credibility with some here so I've changed the name so that we can discuss something that does make some sense without it seeming as though I came up with it):
Following the Pelicans trade of Lance Stephenson and acquisition of Spencer Hawes, the thought is that NO is likely going for a shooter. Chad, I mean Brad, suggests that they might like RJ Hunter but 9 would be too high. Might be a good target for Boston to trade up.
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Jun 15, 2015 21:34:19 GMT -5
Pretty good suggestion from . . . Brad Sword (or someone whose name rhymes but doesn't have any credibility with some here so I've changed the name so that we can discuss something that does make some sense without it seeming as though I came up with it): Following the Pelicans trade of Lance Stephenson and acquisition of Spencer Hawes, the thought is that NO is likely going for a shooter. Chad, I mean Brad, suggests that they might like RJ Hunter but 9 would be too high. Might be a good target for Boston to trade up. Hornets, and no thanks to trading up for Hunter at 9. |
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Post by texs31 on Jun 15, 2015 21:42:55 GMT -5
Yes, I had a brain fart on the NO vs Charlotte
But the point would be for Charlotte to trade BACK to get Hunter. Boston would be trading up to get someone they'd be targeting. Maybe it's Myles Turner or maybe they add a pick on top of 9 to move up further to get WCS.
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Jun 15, 2015 22:09:54 GMT -5
Yes, I had a brain fart on the NO vs Charlotte But the point would be for Charlotte to trade BACK to get Hunter. Boston would be trading up to get someone they'd be targeting. Maybe it's Myles Turner or maybe they add a pick on top of 9 to move up further to get WCS. Gotchya, I would love WCS but ultimately I would think he will be gone and Stanley Johnson and Turner will be the best available. I could see Turner being around at 13 and making a deal with Phoenix |
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