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6/1-6/4 Red Sox vs. Twins Series Thread
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Post by mredsox89 on Jun 4, 2015 0:40:07 GMT -5
Farrell will probably end up being the fall guy if the offense doesn't improve. I don't really think it's justified, but when a whole slew of guys continue to underperform, and it has been a trend, maybe a change is needed, I don't know. Why wouldn't it be Chili Davis? His track record is pretty meh, he didn't totally win like a WS 2 years ago and it seemed to work for whatever reason on the pitching end. Him as well. I was more looking longer term, as in the team still being well under .500 by the AS break, at which point, Davis would already likely be sacked.
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Post by dcsoxfan on Jun 4, 2015 5:31:07 GMT -5
I think the Red Sox "epic" hitting woes may have something to do with the strike zone. When you build your team around plate discipline, and MLB decides to expand the strike zone in order to shorten the time of games (and there is evidence that MLB has done so), it should have an effect.
It seemed as though Mr. Henry was alluding to something like that the other night.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Jun 4, 2015 7:00:23 GMT -5
Yeah interestingly enough, I think the noticeable turnaround with tbe pitching staff with Carl Willis' hiring may make them more likely to make a similar move with the hitting coach if the offense keeps tanking.
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Post by jmei on Jun 4, 2015 7:12:22 GMT -5
Yeah interestingly enough, I think the noticeable turnaround with tbe pitching staff with Carl Willis' hiring may make them more likely to make a similar move with the hitting coach if the offense keeps tanking. Yep, it was all Carl Willis. It wasn't at all because their pitchers had solid-to-better peripherals and just went through a stretch of bad luck or anything.
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Post by okin15 on Jun 4, 2015 7:14:55 GMT -5
It's odd to say that a team desperately needs to win (and not tie) a series against the best team in the league, but that's what's at stake right now. And yeah, this bad season can easily be placed on the shoulders of the offense, given we (or at least I) basically expected this inconsistent but not entirely inept performance pitching-wise.
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Jun 4, 2015 7:45:36 GMT -5
Yeah interestingly enough, I think the noticeable turnaround with tbe pitching staff with Carl Willis' hiring may make them more likely to make a similar move with the hitting coach if the offense keeps tanking. Yep, it was all Carl Willis. It wasn't at all because their pitchers had solid-to-better peripherals and just went through a stretch of bad luck or anything. I don't agree with the point, but that's not what he said at all... Do you have to play contrarian anytime someone even references a change to the staff?
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Jun 4, 2015 7:46:32 GMT -5
It's odd to say that a team desperately needs to win (and not tie) a series against the best team in the league, but that's what's at stake right now. And yeah, this bad season can easily be placed on the shoulders of the offense, given we (or at least I) basically expected this inconsistent but not entirely inept performance pitching-wise. They don't desperately need to do anything except play better. That's the silver lining to playing in such a bad division.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Jun 4, 2015 8:47:15 GMT -5
Well, we're at the 1/3 point of the season. After starting out 7-3 and being a -4 in run differential thru 10 games. We've gone 17-27 since then. .386 ball over 44 games. With a - 42 run differential. That's a non-playoff team. It's really hard to see enough improvement to make a playoff push. I hope the youngsters continue to improve. The vets stay healthy enough to deal a couple of them for future assets.
I don't see us being contenders over the next 2-3 years. It doesn't appear that we have an elite starting pitcher. Or, an elite player. Papi is winding down. While very good, Pedey isn' the type who can carry a team. I don't want to trade any prospects for immediate help in the hopes we turn this season around. Ain't happening IMO. If we trade prospects for a high caliber player who will be around 4-5 years. That's fine. Just don't know if that type of player is available.
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Guidas
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Post by Guidas on Jun 4, 2015 9:55:15 GMT -5
Sheesh, Gibson today? Makes the 2-hit loss vs. May even more ridiculous. I saw him pitch in AA a few times, once against Alex Wilson. Gibson looked great then and has only gotten better.
Also, is everyone else all for this "be more aggressive" approach? I cringed more than a few times with guys first pitch swinging and making weak contact, especially first time through. I understand being aggressive, but abandoning an approach guys have honed over the last few years ad hoc seems like a recipe for even more problems.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jun 4, 2015 10:18:35 GMT -5
Ok let's all take about how good Kyle Gibson is. That should probably jinx him.
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Post by jrffam05 on Jun 4, 2015 10:22:57 GMT -5
Sheesh, Gibson today? Makes the 2-hit loss vs. May even more ridiculous. I saw him pitch in AA a few times, once against Alex Wilson. Gibson looked great then and has only gotten better. Also, is everyone else all for this "be more aggressive" approach? I cringed more than a few times with guys first pitch swinging and making weak contact, especially first time through. I understand being aggressive, but abandoning an approach guys have honed over the last few years ad hoc seems like a recipe for even more problems. Being aggressive for the sake of being aggressive, no, attacking hittable pitches earlier in the count, yes.
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Post by ray88h66 on Jun 4, 2015 10:32:10 GMT -5
Sheesh, Gibson today? Makes the 2-hit loss vs. May even more ridiculous. I saw him pitch in AA a few times, once against Alex Wilson. Gibson looked great then and has only gotten better. Also, is everyone else all for this "be more aggressive" approach? I cringed more than a few times with guys first pitch swinging and making weak contact, especially first time through. I understand being aggressive, but abandoning an approach guys have honed over the last few years ad hoc seems like a recipe for even more problems. I don't like a one size fits all approach. I think a guy like Xander should be more aggressive, and has been lately. Panda, Rousney and a few others could do with taking more pitchers. I'd also like to see the game plan change depending on the pitcher. Don't help a guy who has trouble finding the plate, but don't let a meatball go by with guys who throw mostly first pitch fastballs ,just because it's early in the count.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jun 4, 2015 10:41:06 GMT -5
Castillo has swung at everything low, up, and outside lately. That had to change.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Jun 4, 2015 10:47:11 GMT -5
Well, we're at the 1/3 point of the season. After starting out 7-3 and being a -4 in run differential thru 10 games. We've gone 17-27 since then. .386 ball over 44 games. With a - 42 run differential. But they're playing .667 ball in June! Point being: you can't just remove the first 10 games and make judgments. They haven't played well, had a terrible May. But, overall, they've been bad compared to what they should be, not .386 horrific. And they're still easily within striking distance for the division. Wow, there's a lot I disagree with here. Eddy Rodriguez certainly "appears" to have the potential to be an elite pitcher. Will he be? I don't know! But if we're looking at appearances ... and, honestly, Buchholz is pretty close right now, IF he remains healthy. As for elite player, I think Betts, Bogaerts, and Swihart all look terrific to me, and three excellent players up the middle is the core of a very strong team. I'd put my money on Bogaerts to be the best SS in the AL over the rest of the season, in fact. Betts hasn't gotten the results but has looked good, and Swihart has maybe looked the best of all three of them. I'm tremendously impressed by him, the sky's the limit on his career, imo. This season has been inscrutably bad, just an astonishing team-wide offensive slump that has caught every educated observer by surprise. But I actually think the young players look great, four potentially elite players all coming into the team at once.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jun 4, 2015 10:54:07 GMT -5
Swihart has some mechanical problems with his swing. His body is always pulling out of the batter's box, and he's slicing everything to the opposite field. He never pulls the ball in the air hitting from the left side.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Jun 4, 2015 10:54:14 GMT -5
ERod's pitch/fx data shows the same two cool anomalies, and his post-game interview explains one in a way I find a little bit mind-blowing, if that is such a thing.
Again he had the crazy consistency releasing his slider, in terms of grip, wrist movement and finger pressure (which is to say the spin axes are clustered despite low rotation). We still don't know if he does that all the time, or whether it comes or goes with his command, but that he can do this at all is impressive. I have never seen it before.
Again (though not quite as dramatically) his fastball shows a very wide range of movement, and again (though not quite as strongly) the harder fastballs tend to have higher rotation and hence behave more like two-seamers.
And here's the explanation: they are two-seamers. In his post-game interviews, ERod (who came across as really intelligent in the brief clips I saw) said that both his two-seamer and fastball were good.
Pitch/fx doesn't see any two-seamers. Every other two-seamer on the planet is thrown with a different spin angle (the equivalent of dropping the arm down) than a four-seamer. It's almost the definition of the pitch; the extra armside run and lesser rise (which looks like sink in contrast to fastball expectations) are because the spin angle is changed as if you had dropped the arm down.
But it's also possible to get that movement by reduced rotation, and that's what ERod is doing. I've never before seen anyone who seemed to be varying their FB rotation systematically rather than at random.
So: ERod's two-seamer is thrown at the same spin angle as his four-seamer, which means that neither pitch/fx nor hitters can possibly tell them apart. They differ, instead, by speed of rotation, which I'm pretty sure is not something anyone can pick up, as evidenced by the unreal effectiveness, relative to velocity, of Koji's super-high-rotation FB.
Because of this odd way of differentiating between the pitches, they do not distinctly separate from one another in terms of movement. They exist on a continuum. But they cover a range of movement nearly as big as a normal pitcher's pair of fastballs.
When you add his fastball velocity, I'm willing to declare that he might have the best fastball in MLB, in terms of velocity plus movement (excluding command, although of course that's been very good). He's one of the hardest-throwing LHP in MLB, and he's got this unique advantage of hitters having no idea whether they're seeing a four- or two-seamer.
Finally, consider these two facts:
1) He's able to throw his fastballs with at least one unique grip, wrist motion, or pattern of finger pressure.
2) He's able to throw his slider with incredibly consistent grip, wrist motion, and pattern of finger pressure.
The conclusion is that he may be a ball-in-hand feel savant. A guy who just has a preternatural feel for the baseball and the way it comes out of his hand, and can do things with it that other pitchers can't.
Further conclusion: if they taught him a curve, there's every reason to believe it would be a good one. And if he added a good curve to that arsenal, he'd be elite. Maybe elite and then some. (A scout was quoted as saying that he could be elite if he just developed a show-me curve like Price -- which is exactly what I said (without the Price comparison) after his first start.)
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 4, 2015 11:29:56 GMT -5
Further conclusion: if they taught him a curve, there's every reason to believe it would be a good one. And if he added a good curve to that arsenal, he'd be elite. Maybe elite and then some. (A scout was quoted as saying that he could be elite if he just developed a show-me curve like Price -- which is exactly what I said (without the Price comparison) after his first start.) I compared him to Price in his first start. hehe forum.soxprospects.com/post/143923
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Post by grandsalami on Jun 4, 2015 11:36:14 GMT -5
“@clearthebases: #RedSox lineup: Pedroia 2B, Ramirez LF, Ortiz DH, Napoli 1B, Bogaerts SS, Sandoval 3B, Betts CF, Swihart C, Castillo RF (Wright P)”
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Post by amfox1 on Jun 4, 2015 11:41:37 GMT -5
Jeff Sullivan @based_ball 4m4 minutes ago since Hanley Ramirez got hurt, his average batted-ball velocity is down 11 miles per hour
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jun 4, 2015 11:42:05 GMT -5
“@clearthebases: #RedSox lineup: Pedroia 2B, Ramirez LF, Ortiz DH, Napoli 1B, Bogaerts SS, Sandoval 3B, Betts CF, Swihart C, Castillo RF (Wright P)” Funky again. Whatever, really not bad at all IMO with Betts slumping.
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Post by GyIantosca on Jun 4, 2015 11:45:31 GMT -5
Regarding the strike zone the FO knew about it according to Bradford I think that's why they went after Miley and Porcello in general. They threw low strikes lower half of the plate. My question is if they knew this then they didn't tell the hitters or they didn't listen. Because there is a different calling of the strike zone by the umpires. It's very noticeable and it seems like it has gotten to some of these hitters. Ortiz and Napoli.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jun 4, 2015 11:51:38 GMT -5
Jeff Sullivan @based_ball 4m4 minutes ago since Hanley Ramirez got hurt, his average batted-ball velocity is down 11 miles per hour Hopefully this is/will climb back up. He was hitting rocket after rocket it April.
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Jun 4, 2015 11:53:55 GMT -5
Farrell's just picking names out of a hat at this point.
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Post by jrffam05 on Jun 4, 2015 11:57:27 GMT -5
Farrell's just picking names out of a hat at this point. Well it's not like the previous lineup was working all that well. I don't mind the shakeup.
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Post by amfox1 on Jun 4, 2015 12:30:45 GMT -5
Tim Britton @timbritton 34s35 seconds ago Rodriguez will start Tuesday against the Orioles, his old organization.
Alex Speier @alexspeier now7 seconds ago Farrell says Sox plan to get back to 5-man rotation after weekend. No announcement who exits it, but Rodriguez, Porcello pitching Tu&W.
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