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Post by jmei on Jun 9, 2015 20:56:11 GMT -5
Brock Holt's failure to deliver a runner from third with less than two outs is huge at this point. That's just about the *first* thing a number two hitter should be able to do: make contact. I know some people love Holt, but there's a reason the guy's not an everyday player. In general, this team is terrible with its fundamentals on offense. When a guy guts out a start in which he clearly lacks his best stuff, and yet gives up zero runs in six innings, you damn well better get the win. Holt has a career 18.2% strikeout rate. Strikeouts aren't really his problem, and the fact that he struck out in a clutch situation means next to nothing. His bigger issues are that he doesn't hit for much power, and because of that, guys aren't going to walk him much.
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Post by ajs1994 on Jun 9, 2015 20:56:38 GMT -5
Just to reiterate how awful Ortiz looks. Also sac bunting is brutal.
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Post by moonstone2 on Jun 9, 2015 20:56:38 GMT -5
I know Mookie sat Sunday and yesterday was an off day but he needs to sit a couple and maybe have a chat with Pedroia. He needs to go to the minors with JBJ replacing him.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Jun 9, 2015 20:58:09 GMT -5
Nap has also been awful this year. We may need to sell again at the trade deadline, and this time for actual prospects, not buy low veterans.
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Post by soxfan06 on Jun 9, 2015 20:59:07 GMT -5
Can we please move Ortiz out of the heart of the order?
He's moved Xander down, Mookie down, Napoli down, Sandoval down.
Move Ortiz to the 8 hole please.
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Post by soxfan06 on Jun 9, 2015 21:01:16 GMT -5
Nap has also been awful this year. We may need to sell again at the trade deadline, and this time for actual prospects, not buy low veterans. It's no surprise the offense has been atrocious. Our 2 worst hitters have been hitting 4th and 5th all year.
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Post by mattpicard on Jun 9, 2015 21:03:20 GMT -5
Can we please move Ortiz out of the heart of the order? He's moved Xander down, Mookie down, Napoli down, Sandoval down. Move Ortiz to the 8 hole please. Thing is, Ortiz and Sandoval have been our two best hitters vs. RHP's. Aside from Pedroia in 3rd (by wRC+), it really isn't close. They just so happen to the worst hitters right in MLB vs. LHP's, more or less. Xander's been solid and all, but he's really not a guy you should want batting 3rd or 4th against RHP's.
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Post by benjaminbuttons on Jun 9, 2015 21:03:30 GMT -5
Yankees and Toronto both won tonight btw...
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Post by telson13 on Jun 9, 2015 21:04:19 GMT -5
Brock Holt's failure to deliver a runner from third with less than two outs is huge at this point. That's just about the *first* thing a number two hitter should be able to do: make contact. I know some people love Holt, but there's a reason the guy's not an everyday player. In general, this team is terrible with its fundamentals on offense. When a guy guts out a start in which he clearly lacks his best stuff, and yet gives up zero runs in six innings, you damn well better get the win. Holt has a career 18.2% strikeout rate. Strikeouts aren't really his problem, and the fact that he struck out in a clutch situation means next to nothing. His bigger issues are that he doesn't hit for much power, and because of that, guys aren't going to walk him much. You're misinterpreting my point. I'm well aware that he's not *particularly* strikeout prone. The post is much more one of aggravation than anything else. But, frankly, it's emblematic of this team's consistent offensive failures. Sure, a single instance doesn't make for broad generalizations. I'm being hyperbolic on that count. But my issue is that they routinely fail in that instance, and batting Holt second is just flat-out silly. He's an 8/9 hitter. Only your best hitters should bat up top because they're getting the most AB, and after the first time through the lineup the whole "top of the order" thing is out the window anyway. Just let me have my infuriation with this team, just this once, without ruining it with logic ?
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Post by mattpicard on Jun 9, 2015 21:05:17 GMT -5
Nap has also been awful this year. We may need to sell again at the trade deadline, and this time for actual prospects, not buy low veterans. It's no surprise the offense has been atrocious. Our 2 worst hitters have been hitting 4th and 5th all year. Napoli, by wRC+, has been 1% better than the average MLB hitter this year, and he has been the sixth best on the Red Sox. One of the five guys ahead of him is Shane Victorino.
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Post by GyIantosca on Jun 9, 2015 21:07:43 GMT -5
Farrell just keeps them where they are in the order the Sox are going noplace. Its not Farrell fault but he has to do something about it. Unless Ben makes a move.
Ortiz,Napoli and Pablo are killing this team. What a waste of a start.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jun 9, 2015 21:11:32 GMT -5
If not for a seven run outburst....we would be at 17 consecutive scoreless innings. It really is unacceptable for the caliber of hitters we are running out there. At this point calling it bad luck does a disservice to bad luck everywhere.
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Post by James Dunne on Jun 9, 2015 21:14:02 GMT -5
There's a fair amount to complain about tonight, but I just want to shout out that Junichi Tazawa has been absolutely phenomenal this season. Just an absolute beast. As much as I worry that he gets leaned on too hard, but man, if I was a manager I'd probably turn to him every day.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Jun 9, 2015 21:17:48 GMT -5
There's a fair amount to complain about tonight, but I just want to shout out that Junichi Tazawa has been absolutely phenomenal this season. Just an absolute beast. As much as I worry that he gets leaned on too hard, but man, if I was a manager I'd probably turn to him every day. I was wondering earlier today if its possible he is our all star representative. With the whole Royals log jam coming up with the positional players, I could see Tazawa getting a nod as a reliever.
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Post by ajs1994 on Jun 9, 2015 21:20:55 GMT -5
Terrible game offensively. Ortiz has been horrid, and Napoli has been far from himself this season, but Betts is also playing terribly, the catcher position is a black hole offensively (Swihart has looked better lately, and I like his swing, but his approach and pitch recognition have a long way to go). Not to mention Pablo. Hopefully Hanley is okay.
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Post by bluechip on Jun 9, 2015 21:22:12 GMT -5
Farrell just keeps them where they are in the order the Sox are going noplace. Its not Farrell fault but he has to do something about it. Unless Ben makes a move. Ortiz,Napoli and Pablo are killing this team. What a waste of a start. Its not their place in the order. It is the fact that there are just too many guys in this lineup not hitting.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jun 9, 2015 21:23:32 GMT -5
I blame the lack of an ace.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Jun 9, 2015 21:25:39 GMT -5
This loss could come in handy in moving up in the 2016 draft order.
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Post by benjaminbuttons on Jun 9, 2015 21:27:26 GMT -5
22 games this season the Sox have scored 2 runs or less.
Im sure next game the Sox will put up 5 runs, Ortiz will homer and then ppl will be mocking us for giving him/the offense sh*t.
Funny how a lot of posters get ghost when the Sox suck like they did tonight.
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atzar
Veteran
Posts: 1,817
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Post by atzar on Jun 9, 2015 21:48:34 GMT -5
This offense has been a thoroughly disappointing and frustrating thing to watch this year. Far too talented to be held down as often as it has.
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Post by ray88h66 on Jun 9, 2015 21:51:55 GMT -5
Even when Erod doesn't have it he has it.
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Post by bookiemetts on Jun 9, 2015 21:56:00 GMT -5
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Post by huskies15 on Jun 9, 2015 22:06:27 GMT -5
Everyone's frustration is coming from the fact that these players (veterans) have track records of being above average hitters and they have been a collective dumpster fire when there have been (repeatedly) chances to drive in runs. They were 0-9? tonight with RISP. It just seems like they all lose their approach and ability to hit with men in scoring position.
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Post by benjaminbuttons on Jun 9, 2015 22:06:34 GMT -5
Id like to see Farrell finally make his move tomorrow with a lefty on the mound and move Ortiz down in the order. Somethings gotta be done. I would say pull him but not sure if Hanley will be in the line up tomorrow.
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redsox04071318champs
Veteran
Always hoping to make my handle even longer...
Posts: 15,665
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 9, 2015 22:08:25 GMT -5
This is why the Sox can't gain any traction. They always find some way to lose, whether it's the offense being useless, which has been the case quite often lately, the starting pitching getting mauled, which thankfully has been happening far less lately, or simply just finding a way to beat themselves.
Meanwhile, the Sox keep drifting further behind the Yankees and everybody else. They're not 6.5 games out. When is it acceptable to say that they're digging themselves a hole?
My guess is the Yankees will win about 90 games or so and for the Sox to get to 90 wins, we're looking at 63-40 which is a long-term pace a little bit above .600, possible, but pretty unlikely when the team struggles to score consistently.
So Detroit struggling has been the only thing really giving the Sox a chance as that second Wild Card is now closer to the Sox than the division, but honestly if that's all the Sox are playing for....that's not much to hang your hat on.
My only hope at this point is that the Sox don't recover enough to be a .500ish kind of team. That would be utterly useless. Either win the division or tank (which I think they're more likely to do) and get a protected 1st round pick and draft high in what is supposed to be a strong draft class.
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