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2016 New England Patriots Offseason Thread
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 11, 2016 22:32:49 GMT -5
Right, but you're acting like so many players leave on bad terms like Malloy did when that's simply not the case. They leave because of disagreements on money, sure, but the splits are rarely ugly. When did I say anything like that? |
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Post by rangoon82 on May 11, 2016 23:47:27 GMT -5
Milloy. Just sayin'.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 12, 2016 0:19:31 GMT -5
How does me using Malloy as an example of how Pat's strong arm players, in anyway mean many players are leaving on bad terms?
I used Malloy because it's the ultimate strong arm move by Pat's. Waiting till season is just about to start to release him because he wouldn't take paycut. Maybe I'm wrong, but I find the timing of Danny's paycut to be along the same lines. Right after we draft a good WR, teams announces Danny has agreed to paycut. I assume Danny was willing to take a cut, but didn't want to take such a big paycut for a second straight year after having a very good year. In the end he wanted another chance at a ring and knew Pat's weren't going to give him more and accepted the deal.
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Post by texs31 on May 12, 2016 6:45:38 GMT -5
But Milloy's release, especially at that point, was a surprise. I don't think ANYONE thought that Amendola would be on this team with that cap number.
Further evidence to this is that he was on the Sports hub the other day and said that he had spoken with Bill after the season.
Not that he was going to say anything derogatory about the club or the situation but, again, that suggests this has been coming for a while and not about the Pats using his lack of options against him.
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Post by texs31 on May 12, 2016 6:53:25 GMT -5
And just so we can avoid this next year, his 2017 cap number is worse and he is going to have to do this again if he wants to stick around.
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Post by texs31 on May 12, 2016 9:02:47 GMT -5
So new topic:
I'm really intrigued what happens with the Offensive Line. Quite a lot of bodies and overlap (except for figuring out who the future at T might be). All comments should assume the "if healthy" caveat (so I don't have to say it every time).
At Tackle:
Solder and Vollmer don't appear to have any real competition as the starters at Left and Right respectively. The question of who the swing T is remains. Cannon seemed to regress last year and has a significant cap hit (Pats could save 3.25M by cutting or trading him). I've read that Scar loves him and maybe a reunion between the two can deliver on some early promise. The Pats seem to like Waddle to but neither excite me as the backup (and neither fit as long-term starters. If the Pats can bring Cannon to a workable Cap Number, I could see him being the favorite (familiarity with the coach being my tie-breaker). Still need to address the future with Vollmer a free agent next year and Solder coming off the following season.
The interior is where things really get interesting. I think Stork, Thuney and Mason are locks to make the team. Cooper is probably as well (as part of the Chandler trade and with a loss of $600K should they cut him, I would thing he stays unless he's just terrible). Kline was, arguably, the best OL through the season but they could save 1.56M by releasing him. If Thuney was drafted to be a C (at least part of the time) I wonder if Andrews (who came out of nowhere to both make the team and play well during the season) might be in trouble as a C - only. Jackson is also interesting as he was highly thought of out of college but really struggled last year. How he improves will dictate his role on the squad (or existence). Would think Fleming/Barker/Milton/Karras are on the outside looking in.
Injuries during camp (they always will happen) will play a large role in how this shakes out but I could see some moves in advance with Cannon and, even, Kline (especially if they could get a pick for him).
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 12, 2016 9:32:03 GMT -5
But Milloy's release, especially at that point, was a surprise. I don't think ANYONE thought that Amendola would be on this team with that cap number. Further evidence to this is that he was on the Sports hub the other day and said that he had spoken with Bill after the season. Not that he was going to say anything derogatory about the club or the situation but, again, that suggests this has been coming for a while and not about the Pats using his lack of options against him. Sure Malloy's release was a shocker. The thing I don't get is how everyone thinks Danny'd cap number was so crazy that he would never be on team with that number. Yet everyone likes the Hogan signing and his 5.5 million cap charge next season. Danny's cap number seems more then fair when compared to Hogans. That't the thing that makes zero sense to me about this whole thing. Given the choice of Hogan at his number or Danny at his cap number before paycut, I would take Danny any day of the week. He has earned Brady's trust and as we know that's not easy to do and takes time. We got lucky and ended up with both, but the Pats played a very dangerous game in my opinion. At this point in Brady's career, adding Hogan and losing Danny would have been a big downgrade in my opinion |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 12, 2016 9:38:44 GMT -5
So new topic: I'm really intrigued what happens with the Offensive Line. Quite a lot of bodies and overlap (except for figuring out who the future at T might be). All comments should assume the "if healthy" caveat (so I don't have to say it every time). At Tackle: Solder and Vollmer don't appear to have any real competition as the starters at Left and Right respectively. The question of who the swing T is remains. Cannon seemed to regress last year and has a significant cap hit (Pats could save 3.25M by cutting or trading him). I've read that Scar loves him and maybe a reunion between the two can deliver on some early promise. The Pats seem to like Waddle to but neither excite me as the backup (and neither fit as long-term starters. If the Pats can bring Cannon to a workable Cap Number, I could see him being the favorite (familiarity with the coach being my tie-breaker). Still need to address the future with Vollmer a free agent next year and Solder coming off the following season. The interior is where things really get interesting. I think Stork, Thuney and Mason are locks to make the team. Cooper is probably as well (as part of the Chandler trade and with a loss of $600K should they cut him, I would thing he stays unless he's just terrible). Kline was, arguably, the best OL through the season but they could save 1.56M by releasing him. If Thuney was drafted to be a C (at least part of the time) I wonder if Andrews (who came out of nowhere to both make the team and play well during the season) might be in trouble as a C - only. Jackson is also interesting as he was highly thought of out of college but really struggled last year. How he improves will dictate his role on the squad (or existence). Would think Fleming/Barker/Milton/Karras are on the outside looking in. Injuries during camp (they always will happen) will play a large role in how this shakes out but I could see some moves in advance with Cannon and, even, Kline (especially if they could get a pick for him). I thought Cannon was a goner after how he played last year and his cap #. I have to guess that they chalked up his poor play to him not being 100%. I am also shocked that they didn't draft a tackle with Vollmer and Cannon are free agents next year. We drafted another center/guard? I was ok with the Thuney pick if we was a tackle long term, but center/guard is a shocker. I like our young guys at Guard/Center. |
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Post by texs31 on May 12, 2016 10:54:10 GMT -5
Your questioning of Amendola's status is not unreasonable (Hogan is 3 years younger and, seemingly, more flexible to lineup outside so those could be a couple of reasons but . . .).
The point was, by all accounts, it was pretty obvious that it would happen (at least, to the extent that ANYTHING can be obvious to anyone other than Bill B when it comes to decision making in NE).
So, while I agree that NE can be cutthroat, I have a hard time seeing this as a scenario where Danny and his agent were caught off-guard and backed into a corner.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 13, 2016 16:16:07 GMT -5
OK that's like 5 times you have said he wasn't caught off guard, did anyone say he was? We have all read the reports, we know this didn't come out of no where. To that point I guarantee you that Malloy's release was along the same lines. I'm sure the team and player were talking about paycut, but he wouldn't accept Pat's terms so they cut him. It wasn't in the news for months like Danny, but that doesn't me it didn't go down the same way.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 13, 2016 16:33:16 GMT -5
What I want to know is did Bill say we need to talk paycut later in offseason or give him his take it or leave offer right after season. I feel Bill said we'll talk later, which is why I feel he was strong armed. By waiting Danny's options are very limited now, most good teams have very little cap room now. I just don't see how they spent the offseason negotiating and came up at Danny's new contract. What the first offer was Vet min? This just feels like Pat's knew Danny wanted to stay and used it against him. He went from being overpaid to underpaid, which rarely happen with restructes.
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Post by mgoetze on May 13, 2016 17:08:47 GMT -5
What I want to know is did Bill say we need to talk paycut later in offseason or give him his take it or leave offer right after season. I feel Bill said we'll talk later, which is why I feel he was strong armed. By waiting Danny's options are very limited now, most good teams have very little cap room now. And that is, of course, why if you're not going for a fully guaranteed contract you need to at least structure it with option bonuses due on the 3rd day of the league year or whatever. As long as NFL players keep signing contracts saying "please screw me over", they will keep getting screwed. I guess they like it. |
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Post by benogliviesbrother on May 16, 2016 12:55:56 GMT -5
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Post by texs31 on May 16, 2016 13:31:58 GMT -5
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 16, 2016 17:47:10 GMT -5
Those numbers are high, looks like pre draft picks. Pat's have about 9 million after signing picks and cap savings from Danny new deal. Most of the top teams have under 10 million. Most if not all of that money is spoken for. All good teams carry cap space for an emergency signing/trade, carry money for next year cap or extend players contracts. |
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Post by benogliviesbrother on May 20, 2016 7:46:35 GMT -5
Those numbers are high, looks like pre draft picks. Pat's have about 9 million after signing picks and cap savings from Danny new deal. Most of the top teams have under 10 million. Most if not all of that money is spoken for. All good teams carry cap space for an emergency signing/trade, carry money for next year cap or extend players contracts. Those numbers are real time, up to date. Salary cap reporting is what that website does. Sorry the facts don't fit the narrative you've constructed. Have you considered changing the narrative rather than arguing against the facts? |
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Post by texs31 on May 20, 2016 8:53:30 GMT -5
To be fair, the injury news on Amendola should probably have everyone changing their narrative.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 20, 2016 11:12:43 GMT -5
Those numbers are high, looks like pre draft picks. Pat's have about 9 million after signing picks and cap savings from Danny new deal. Most of the top teams have under 10 million. Most if not all of that money is spoken for. All good teams carry cap space for an emergency signing/trade, carry money for next year cap or extend players contracts. Those numbers are real time, up to date. Salary cap reporting is what that website does. Sorry the facts don't fit the narrative you've constructed. Have you considered changing the narrative rather than arguing against the facts? You know nothing. Go look at 5 sites and they all give you different numbers. I will go by Patscap.com, as he only does NE cap and is always right on. Per him your numbers were 1.5 million dollars high. Heck he even breaks down the recent moves that got you there. All that doesn't change the fact that money is spoken for. You act like teams will go into year having used 100% of cap space and that rarely happens. Cap space doesn't equal money available to sign free agents like you think it does. Not the last 10 million or so, that's not how good teams operate. The facts say that only one of next year's top contenders Carolina has the money to currently sign Danny to market rate contract. The other top teams would only look at signing him if an injury happened at WR. Those are facts dude. Go back and look at cap space for those teams for the last couple of years at this time and then the players they signed. Then get back at me, with the facts. You know nothing! |
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Post by benogliviesbrother on May 21, 2016 15:02:56 GMT -5
Those numbers are real time, up to date. Salary cap reporting is what that website does. Sorry the facts don't fit the narrative you've constructed. Have you considered changing the narrative rather than arguing against the facts? Quite the conundrum you pose: can "nothing" be known? Apparently you consider me capable of such, so I will take that as a compliment. Thank you. I'm sure they're all so radically different as to distort the argument? Oh, they're not? Just straw then? Okay. Last first: They weren't "my numbers." They were the numbers I borrowed from a website, like you just did.
Now: Another logic error — you imply correlation between breadth of focus that doesn't exist. Or would you suggest baseball reference.com is less reliable than some random Sox-centric website because they keep statistics on all of MLB? I'd hope not.
And: how can you possibly attest for his accuracy? Have you verified his numbers with Casserio or Belichick or the League office? I mean — silly!
Except for the money that isn't spoken for. As can be found in the "remaining cap room" column. Quite a bit left for plenty of teams. Which defeats your original claim — that teams wouldn't have money to sign him, if they wanted to.
You're as clumsy with your words as you are with your claims: I didn't "act" like anything. I wrote, I claimed, I made the point that — each of those would be more correct.
Oh, btw, I made no such claim. Of course teams need hold onto some cap room. Of course, amounts vary by team. This is where a lesser man would start calling you names. Sigh.Thank you for the aphorism. Wow! How revelatory. I never would have guessed that. Or, DUH!!!As to the bolded: you now know what I think? (I really should call him a name here. Several, perhaps.)
Sorry, but I don't think "Cap space = money for free agents (necessarily)." But maybe you can quote where I've said it before?Double DUH. But, of course, not all teams are good teams. Not all teams are fiscally prudent.The "facts" don't say that. And, are you now moving the goal posts? Did your original post say DA was screwed because he couldn't get a job with "a top contender"? I don't remember that, (but admit I haven't checked). They would look at signing him if he would make their team better. And if they saw value in his prospective contract. Simple enough. No, really, they aren't "the facts." They're opinions. Several of which are quite poorly formed. And I don't think we know each other well enough for you to call me dude. Nah. But you can, and report back, if you like. We'll not learn much from that exercise. "YOU CAN"T HANDLE THE FACTS." I get it now — it's a Game of Thrones reference! (Ha! You thought I was dead, like Jon Snow. But he's not dead. He's alive and on his way to liberate Winterfell from the evil Lord Bolton, Warden of the North. So that's quite a compliment. Thank you.) Or: see top of post. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 21, 2016 17:09:44 GMT -5
OMG. You clearly said almost any team could sign him if they wanted to and I clearly said all good teams have very little cap space. If you need me to spell it out for you the good teams are contenders. You really need to read the posts you are arguing against because you sound like a fool.
Patscap.com has been used my Mike Reiss of ESPN when talking about Pat's cap space, so yea I am going to trust that site over the other ones out there. It's like if you want best info on Red Sox prospects do you go to Baseball America or this site? This site will give you more and better info on Red Sox prospects, because that's all they do.
Now you go on to agree that good teams will not spend all their cap space, so it seems you agree with me. Why then have you spent two post trying to prove me wrong?
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Post by jmei on May 21, 2016 17:17:25 GMT -5
Please cut it out or take it to the throwdown forum. We have a low tolerance for this kind of pedantic, repetitive bickering.
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Post by rangoon82 on May 28, 2016 15:40:38 GMT -5
Would love the Pats to sign Marshawn Lynch if hr unretires. Dunno how much is owed to Blount tho.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 28, 2016 23:54:18 GMT -5
Would love Lynch but I think he's still under contract, so if he unretired Seahawks will hold rights. Even if he gets released he'd have to accept a small contract from Pat's and that would surprise me.
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Post by ibsmith85 on Jul 13, 2016 9:33:54 GMT -5
Brady's appeal has been denied by the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court ESPN.comWell Jimmy G, show us what you got, and then net us a high draft pick please. |
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Post by welovewally on Aug 2, 2016 11:33:02 GMT -5
I do not think Brady will start game 5. Not because Jimmy G. will beat him out of the job but because Belichick will say he is better prepared to start that game then Brady is. His reasoning will be that Brady has had only 5-6 days of practice headed into game 5. This will give Brady all week to practice & the bye week to prepare for game 6 in week 7. I believe this will hold true if the Patriots are 4-0, 3-1, 2-2, or even 1-3. But if they are 0-4 it could change
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