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Post-Draft Discussion Thread
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Post by johnsilver52 on Jul 14, 2016 19:19:16 GMT -5
Also....this thing isn't over yet. A guy who really wants to play pro ball might take a 200k bonus. We didn't think Brakeman would sign for a similar value last year. Just wait until tomorrow....I think we spend the remaining 100k+ somehow whether its on Quintana, or the HS guys with less pedigree (Michael Wilson, Beau Capanna, etc.). Washington signed for only 100k last year out of the blue and nobody figured on that either. Anything can happen. |
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Post by sammo420 on Jul 14, 2016 19:29:21 GMT -5
I don't understand why everyone is bitching and moaning here. Dalbec and Shawaryn were both fringe first rounders at the start of the season who had off years for one reason or another. We bought low on them because of it. |
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Post by amfox1 on Jul 14, 2016 19:31:54 GMT -5
Dalbec and Shawaryn were both fringe first rounders at the start of the season who had off years for one reason or another. We bought low on them because of it. Here's the punch line - If they end up being fringe first rounders, we still bought low. |
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 14, 2016 19:49:23 GMT -5
It's probably clear that they said goodbye to him before they signed Shawaryn and Dalbec. I mean all of these signings are directly related to each other. |
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Post by sammo420 on Jul 14, 2016 19:50:55 GMT -5
Dalbec and Shawaryn were both fringe first rounders at the start of the season who had off years for one reason or another. We bought low on them because of it. Here's the punch line - If they end up being fringe first rounders, we still bought low. Hey, I liked both picks. We're essentially talking about talent that should've been off the board by the time we took them and weren't. |
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Post by smairs on Jul 14, 2016 19:53:54 GMT -5
This has been a great day for the Sox. Nobody thought Groome would fall to #12 and even when he did, people questioned the Sox ability to sign him. The Sox sign all top 10 picks, and people still aren't happy....geez....
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Post by ramireja on Jul 14, 2016 20:00:03 GMT -5
There are definitely mixed emotions regarding the overslot bonuses for Shawaryn and Dalbec. Although I tend to think Dalbec should have settled for slot, I still like the Shawaryn pick quite a bit. Do people realize his college numbers compare pretty well to our other high profile college pitcher signings like Ranaudo and Barnes? I mean, I think the most likely outcome is that he becomes an MLB reliever, but there is legitimate #3 starter upside there. He had an "off year" this year and his WHIP was still < 1.
For me, slots into the tier of prospects that includes Basabe, Chavis, Lakins, and now Chatham (with guys like Ockimey and Raudes pushing closer to that tier).
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Post by pedroelgrande on Jul 14, 2016 20:02:13 GMT -5
I assume he wanted more to the point where it would prohibit other signings Can't always assume competence from the front office. I don't think grandsalami can do that.  |
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Post by jchang on Jul 14, 2016 20:13:05 GMT -5
Dalbec and Shawaryn were both fringe first rounders at the start of the season who had off years for one reason or another. We bought low on them because of it. Here's the punch line - If they end up being fringe first rounders, we still bought low. We bought low on Ranaudo too (in terms of draft position, not bonus) who happened to be pitching for Charlotte against Pawtucket tonight. |
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 14, 2016 20:18:24 GMT -5
Here's the punch line - If they end up being fringe first rounders, we still bought low. We bought low on Ranaudo too (in terms of draft position, not bonus) who happened to be pitching for Charlotte against Pawtucket tonight. Don't forget buying low on JBJ. |
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 14, 2016 22:15:58 GMT -5
Yeah, college guy who had a down year or was injured and missed some of it is a definite type this FO loves in the round 3-6 slots and the 11-15 slots, especially if he was good on the Cape. In addition to those mentioned: Chandler Shepherd, Karsten Whitson, Jalen Beeks, Marc Brakeman, off the top of my head.
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Post by larrycook on Jul 14, 2016 22:29:57 GMT -5
This has been a great day for the Sox. Nobody thought Groome would fall to #12 and even when he did, people questioned the Sox ability to sign him. The Sox sign all top 10 picks, and people still aren't happy....geez.... Agreed. Signing groome is the only thing in this draft that matters. These other signings are great, but at the end of the day, this is groome's draft. |
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danr
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Post by danr on Jul 14, 2016 23:43:20 GMT -5
The Sox have only signed 21 of their draft choices, which is the fewest number of draft choices signed in 20 years when they only signed 17 in 1996.
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Post by buttclown on Jul 15, 2016 5:37:58 GMT -5
The Sox have only signed 21 of their draft choices, which is the fewest number of draft choices signed in 20 years when they only signed 17 in 1996. Good stat, hope some of these guys pan out because our lower minors are lacking in depth and we can't sign any international guys this year. |
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alnipper
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Post by alnipper on Jul 15, 2016 9:44:47 GMT -5
We had a great draft this year! This was a weak draft where we drafted a possible elite pitcher, two starting pitchers, several high upside players. We'll know for sure in 5 years, but I like our draft.
I do not see Dalbec having a high enough hit tool to make it past AA. Hopefully, he'll start liking to pitch. If he focuses on pitching or hitting it will hopefully help. He reminds me of Jason Place offensively right now.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Jul 15, 2016 9:56:25 GMT -5
Hudson Belinsky @hudsonbelinsky
Nick Quintana (11th rd/Red Sox) and Zack Smith (15th rd/Indians) will not sign. Quintana is committed to Arizona, Smith to UNC Charlotte.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Jul 15, 2016 10:38:03 GMT -5
I really need to know why they gave Shawaryn ~300K over slot. Can't fathom. He was ranked 77 by BA, 139 by MLB, and 94 by PG. He signed for 94 slot. Dalbec was ranked 118, 88, 112 and signed for 93 slot. Groome was 3, 1, 1 and signed for 8. Chatham: 101, 63, 62 -> 58 Anderson: 151, 140, 76 -> 88 Nogosek: 164, 175, 177 -> 190 Marrero, the only other prep player of note they signed, got 290 money; BA alone ranked him, at 445. |
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alnipper
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Post by alnipper on Jul 15, 2016 10:48:34 GMT -5
Can we get a new rankings after the draft is over today?
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Post by ramireja on Jul 15, 2016 10:59:01 GMT -5
Hudson Belinsky @hudsonbelinsky Nick Quintana (11th rd/Red Sox) and Zack Smith (15th rd/Indians) will not sign. Quintana is committed to Arizona, Smith to UNC Charlotte. Really not trying to focus on the negative, I think it was a solid draft overall. My lone complaint is that I hope Quintana' asking price was truly out of reach. I'd hate to think they met Dalbec and Shawaryn's demands without much negotiating if they were close on Quintana. In other words, if they trimmed 50k off of each of those bonuses, would Quintana have signed for 300k instead of 200k? We may never know, but I hope that wasn't the case. It just really seemed like he wanted to play pro ball. Still though, we got Groome which is enough to make me happy. I personally really like Shawaryn. Chatham and Anderson are solid prospects in my mind. I'm not expecting much from Dalbec, but its worth having that power potential in the system. Cheers. |
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Post by vermontsox1 on Jul 15, 2016 11:17:56 GMT -5
Hudson Belinsky @hudsonbelinsky Nick Quintana (11th rd/Red Sox) and Zack Smith (15th rd/Indians) will not sign. Quintana is committed to Arizona, Smith to UNC Charlotte. Really not trying to focus on the negative, I think it was a solid draft overall. My lone complaint is that I hope Quintana' asking price was truly out of reach. I'd hate to think they met Dalbec and Shawaryn's demands without much negotiating if they were close on Quintana. In other words, if they trimmed 50k off of each of those bonuses, would Quintana have signed for 300k instead of 200k? We may never know, but I hope that wasn't the case. It just really seemed like he wanted to play pro ball. Still though, we got Groome which is enough to make me happy. I personally really like Shawaryn. Chatham and Anderson are solid prospects in my mind. I'm not expecting much from Dalbec, but its worth having that power potential in the system. Cheers. Yeah, I think Groome alone should make everyone happy. We all basically agreed that we would need to punt the rest of the draft to get him, but we were still able to sign some other good players. Really the only issue I have is with Quintana. Not necessarily that we didn't sign him, but that we took him with our first pick of day 3. That 11th round pick is becoming so valuable with the current system, I would have liked them to take the highest player on the board that they were also comfortable they could sign. |
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Post by RedSoxStats on Jul 15, 2016 11:58:09 GMT -5
Given Groome's final number, and not signing Quintana, it seems like there was a pretty big blunder by the Red Sox imo
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Post by ramireja on Jul 15, 2016 12:18:33 GMT -5
Given Groome's final number, and not signing Quintana, it seems like there was a pretty big blunder by the Red Sox imo I've got to agree, and also agree with vermontsox above. I've got to believe they drafted him at 11 because they thought he was signable. He has straight up said in a previous interview: "I'm signable." It does seem like a blunder, as if they got a little bit careless/reckless after getting Groome to agree for less than anticipated. Trying to nab these high upside HS players if possible should be a high priority. In fact, I'd prefer Quintana to Dalbec. My approach would have been to offer 350k to Quintana and give Dalbec a take-it-or-leave-it offer at slot. I'll reiterate, this doesn't make this a bad draft by any means. But I do consider this specific lack of a signing a mistake. |
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 15, 2016 12:36:53 GMT -5
Really the only issue I have is with Quintana. Not necessarily that we didn't sign him, but that we took him with our first pick of day 3. That 11th round pick is becoming so valuable with the current system, I would have liked them to take the highest player on the board that they were also comfortable they could sign. I disagree here. I think 11 is the obvious place to take a "maybe I can sign him for less than his original asking price" pick. There's no downside, and you get the first crack at him. You wait a round, and maybe, say, the Mets have the same idea with the same player. Makes more sense to me than taking the best player available who you know you can sign, who will probably be available in the 12th and is likely to be ranked far lower than a Quintana type. Given that he got a tick over the $100K, it's very possible that Gorst was the player who fit that description for Boston. Unrelated thought... For awhile I thought it was odd that they didn't fill much organizational depth with their lower-round signings, but I was just thinking about it. They almost certainly can't field a second DSL team next year, right? So I'm guessing they'll bring a whole load of players stateside to fill out the Lowell and GCL roster spots that usually go to the previous year's draft picks. Quickly eyeballing it, they're about four to eight players short of the normal number of players they sign, but if they are fielding one fewer team then they'll have no problem making that up. |
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Post by nomar on Jul 15, 2016 12:46:41 GMT -5
Yeah I'd 100% rather have Quintana than Dalbec. Only way Dalbec gets to the majors is in the bullpen, and even that is doubtful obviously.
I'd love to be wrong, but Dalbec's K% is astronomically high.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Jul 15, 2016 13:07:44 GMT -5
Really the only issue I have is with Quintana. Not necessarily that we didn't sign him, but that we took him with our first pick of day 3. That 11th round pick is becoming so valuable with the current system, I would have liked them to take the highest player on the board that they were also comfortable they could sign. I disagree here. I think 11 is the obvious place to take a "maybe I can sign him for less than his original asking price" pick. There's no downside, and you get the first crack at him. You wait a round, and maybe, say, the Mets have the same idea with the same player. Makes more sense to me than taking the best player available who you know you can sign, who will probably be available in the 12th and is likely to be ranked far lower than a Quintana type. Given that he got a tick over the $100K, it's very possible that Gorst was the player who fit that description for Boston. Unrelated thought... For awhile I thought it was odd that they didn't fill much organizational depth with their lower-round signings, but I was just thinking about it. They almost certainly can't field a second DSL team next year, right? So I'm guessing they'll bring a whole load of players stateside to fill out the Lowell and GCL roster spots that usually go to the previous year's draft picks. Quickly eyeballing it, they're about four to eight players short of the normal number of players they sign, but if they are fielding one fewer team then they'll have no problem making that up. It's definitely subjective and I can see both strategies working (or not working). From my standpoint, you take the guy highest on your board who will most likely sign, then go after the "signability" guys later, a la Belge and company. You essentially have a little under 24 hours to talk with players and determine their bonus demands so it seems wise to pick a guy where you can very specifically pinpoint his demands. Then later you take guys who have fallen and just throw whatever remaining money you have. |
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