wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,860
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Post by wcp3 on Mar 11, 2017 9:21:21 GMT -5
I'd still like to see them get another edge player. They replaced Long but haven't replaced Sheard. All 4 edge guus received snaps last year. Obviously Hightower is a priority. And Blount or a replacement is on the to-do list as well. Hightower is probably the next big shoe to drop for the Pats, one way or another. Him being here long-term (or not) will have a ripple effect. For some reason, I'm still optimistic that they keep Malcolm even beyond next season. |
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Post by voiceofreason on Mar 11, 2017 10:12:10 GMT -5
Given BB's ability to put players into a position to succeed and the Patriot culture I am extremely bullish on Ealy. Go back to his college days and combine workout, there is a lot more in the tank. I think he will flourish in NE, but like I said before he has to be willing to work at it.
Bennetts deal is actually 21 million, 3 years with 8 next year but the Packers can get out early as there is a roster bonus for next year. Overall it doesn't seem to back loaded but they can still get out of it.
Anxious for the next announcement.
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Post by voiceofreason on Mar 11, 2017 10:38:22 GMT -5
Football is the sport where the coaching/management has the biggest impact from the strategic down to the tactical level. The Patriots with Belichick have shown that you don't need the most talented roster if you have a good system and can get players who buy into it. Bum Phillips famous quote about "he can take his'n and beat your'n..." is more appropriately aimed at Belichick, who does it every year, taking cast-offs, undrafted free agents or past their prime guys and does nothing but beat your'n. In baseball the Sox turned it around when new ownership came in, but with the exception of 2013, they had the most talented team when they made their runs and tactical decisions had a lot less impact than the level of talent (well maybe excepting 2003 - thanks Obama, er Grady). Basketball?. Get a big 3 and your in the running, but that triangle offense didn't look so good without Jordan/Pippen or Bryant/O'Neal now did it. Hockey? Claude Julien had a lot of success with his trap with the Devils and some with the B's - until the NHL changed the rules to open the game up. How many times has the NFL changes the rules specifically (it seems) to take away what the Pats did the year before? How's that working for them? Soccer, I don't know anything about it, looks like aerobics with a ball thrown in for distraction, so no comment. Football is also the sport where attrition due to injury plays the largest part so the stars and scrubs approach can be particularly problematic. Brady is great, probably the GOAT, but you can see Belichick winning with Rodgers, Marino, even Favre if they'd listen and buy in - not with Brady's longevity - but you can conceive of it very easily. THen look at what happens so often when ex-Pats go to other teams, very rarely do they achieve the same level of performance let alone success. The only sports dynasty that comes close in terms of structure is Red Auerbach's Celtics who had their Brady in Bill Russell and a talented, but not necessarily the most talented, cast around him. How many Celt HOF players are there because they were on those teams, not the other way around? We in Boston are truly blessed to see this kind of top to bottom performance not once, but twice for those of us old enough to remember the dulcet tones of Johnny Most and the comic press conference stylings of Bill Belichick. Belichick is playing chess while everyone else is playing checkers. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 11, 2017 11:10:29 GMT -5
I was just making the point that the Patriots let go of Chris Long and got younger and a potentially better Chris Long type in return for nothing. I wasn't trying to make it seem like they got the next stud DE or anything. Wasn't directed towards you |
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 11, 2017 11:13:49 GMT -5
I forget who it was but they said Belichick is playing 3 dimensional chess while everyone else is playing checkers.. ha
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 11, 2017 11:16:47 GMT -5
And I agree that Hightower is the next major shoe to drop. I'm pretty confident in his return. It seems he wants to stay on the East coast and unless Tennessee steps up and offers him more than it's reported they are comfortable with then it feels like a return here is inevitable. Miami was linked to him but they signed Timmons since and I can't see him wanting to play there...
I wonder if the market for him was way overblown. If you think about it, he's a big linebacker in a league where it's trending smaller. He fits what the Patriots do but a lot of teams wouldn't use him the same way.
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Post by texs31 on Mar 11, 2017 11:57:54 GMT -5
Pats have also had Lawrence Guy in. He's more of a down lineman to add to Brown/Branch/Valentine (if he were to sign).
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 11, 2017 11:59:18 GMT -5
There no chance they don't sign more edge players. And obviously they are going to sign s running back
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Post by Coreno on Mar 11, 2017 13:22:08 GMT -5
I'd actually argue that Ealy is the Sheard replacement and Long will be replaced with another vet or through the draft.
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 11, 2017 13:26:16 GMT -5
Why would you argue that? Sheard did more in coverage than Long.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 11, 2017 13:46:44 GMT -5
Because Flowers replaced Sheard and Sheard replaced Long. Long was 4th on depth chart by end of year, that's why he's gone. What was Long playing like 15 snaps by end of year?
I can see bringing in another Vet, but we need to draft a DE this year. The draft is loaded and we need more youth at position. I might even double dip this year like we did when we got Flowers.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 11, 2017 13:51:53 GMT -5
We need to resign Hightower. We are loading up and he's the one player we can't easily replace, especially now that we don't have a pick in first two rounds. At 32 there were going to be a couple LBs that could have helped us next year. By 3rd round you just don't know if you can get an instant player.
I think it's good that he's still unsigned, teams are burning through money and we still have a ton.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 11, 2017 14:03:09 GMT -5
Ok so got my first batch of draft magazines. It's a very good draft!
Class rankings in draft;
QB- B
RB- A
WR- B+
TE- A-
OT- C-
G- B+
C- C
DL- C+
Edge Rushers- A-
LB- B-
CB- A-
S- A
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Post by texs31 on Mar 11, 2017 14:15:46 GMT -5
Flowers reduced inside on passing downs too, no? Based on size, seems like Ealy could too.
I'd bet a signing AND a draft pick.
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Post by texs31 on Mar 11, 2017 14:29:24 GMT -5
Guy signing per Rap. 4 yrs, up to 20 Mn. No idea about guarantees which is the only thing that really matters.
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 11, 2017 15:25:43 GMT -5
I really know nothing about Guy but there is this tid bit:
"Guy will fit in nicely with the Patriots. He had the seventh-best stop percentage (8.8) among 3-4 defensive ends and zero missed tackles in 2016, per Louie Benjamin of Pro Football Focus."
Pats love these types of signings - I bet it's an easy to get out of contract.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 11, 2017 15:35:00 GMT -5
I don't know percentages, but didn't we mostly play 4-3 last year? With Brown, Branch, Valentine and now Guy you would have size to run 3-4, but does Flowers play well at OLB?
Or are they just signing him to be a pass rushing DT?
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 11, 2017 15:37:34 GMT -5
We did mostly play 4-3 yes. Sounds like he's a run stopper more than a pass rusher, which I think fits their needs. Guy -Branch - Brown on first down
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 11, 2017 15:40:08 GMT -5
Stephen Cohen @scohenpi
Washington CB Sidney Jones, consensus first-round NFL draft prospect, leaves pro day on a cart after suffering apparent left leg injury.
Looks like the Pats just got their first round pick in round 4.... jk
But seriously that sucks for the kid if it's serious.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 11, 2017 15:40:52 GMT -5
Flowers reduced inside on passing downs too, no? Based on size, seems like Ealy could too. I'd bet a signing AND a draft pick. I bet they did sometimes, they love moving players around. I just remember him mostly playing DE though. I could be wrong. |
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Post by Coreno on Mar 11, 2017 15:42:42 GMT -5
Exactly, what umass said. Long was a warm body by the end of the year. Meanwhile Ealy put up almost the exact same production as Sheard in somewhat limited time.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 11, 2017 15:56:41 GMT -5
How is Elay against run? Because Sheard was very good there and could rush passer. In today's NFL that really matters, 1st down isn't the running down it used to be.
We got an edge rusher and a run stuffer, but did we get a player that can do both? Not a bad group, but I'm not really up to date on Elay the player, besides he can get after QB.
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Post by voiceofreason on Mar 11, 2017 17:37:57 GMT -5
I am very happy with all the players the Pats have added, One thing about all of them is that they are in their prime. That is better than rookies or 30 yr old vets on their downside. I have to think that if BB gave a DT 20m/4 he likes his game and feels its worth it, that is not a small deal. Just sign Hightower and keep Butler so I can relax knowing the Pats are stacked for next year. Guy actually rates pretty high on getting pressure on the QB up the middle as well as being a good run stuffer. www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000784423/article/aaron-donald-leads-top10-interior-pass-rushers |
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 11, 2017 19:57:09 GMT -5
Good write up by Reiss on Hightower... it's kind of what I said earlier about how he's a unique linebacker that doesn't fit what a lot of teams do anymore. www.espn.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4801759/whats-the-holdup-with-espns-no-2-free-agent-donta-hightower?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter"That got me thinking about how Hightower, at 6-foot-3 and 265 pounds, is a unique player who doesn’t fit into the traditional linebacker box. Few have his combination of size, power, football IQ and big-game chops, but he’s not a quick-twitch athlete, his production doesn’t jump off the stat sheet, and there is an injury history for teams to consider. Thus, a flexible defensive scheme and a creative coaching staff are an important combination to maximize what makes Hightower so special." |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 12, 2017 5:21:36 GMT -5
Few things on Hightower. He has averaged 12.33 games a year over last 3 years. That has to come into play, as he's only playing like 75% of the games per year.
He's not as talented physically as Jamie Collins and doesn't make as many big plays. He is our leader on D though, he plays 100% all the time, he is more consistent than a player like Collins and seems to make big plays when it matters the most.
The issue is Hightower looks at Collins contract that made him one of highest paid LB in game and thinks he deserves more. Collins got 4 years 50 million with I think 28.5 million guaranteed. Pat's were said to have offered him 10 million per year last offseason.
So what do you pay Hightower? You will have to slightly overpay him, that's just how free agency works. With all our cap room and the fact we are in win now mode, we really need to sign him. 5 years 60 million, something like 32 million in guarantees, but there needs to be some good size per game bonus tied in. He gets more total dollars and more guaranteed money than Collins and Gilmore.
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