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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Mar 12, 2017 5:45:56 GMT -5
I could see a 5 year 52 million dollar deal for Hightower. Probably see him earning 12 million a year for the first 3 years and then have it drop off the last 2 years with not a lot of guaranteed money on the table after 3 years.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 12, 2017 7:13:39 GMT -5
I could see a 5 year 52 million dollar deal for Hightower. Probably see him earning 12 million a year for the first 3 years and then have it drop off the last 2 years with not a lot of guaranteed money on the table after 3 years. How much guaranteed? Let's be real, that's what players care about. I think your numbers are in line with his true value, I just don't know if he accepts that. I hope he does. It's his comments that scare me. He was very upset about his rookie contract and the 5th year option. He wants to be shown the respect, as in a crap load of money. So I think you have to guarantee him as much as Collins and most likely Gilmore. I just think in his eyes it's all about respect and if he gets less he's thinking that's not respecting what he brings to team. He won two Superbowls. He made the plays to help the team win while Collins and Gilmore were watching the game on TV. We just need to get this done. It caps off a great offseason, without Hightower it's only a good offseason and we have a huge hole to fill. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Mar 12, 2017 7:39:49 GMT -5
I see him getting like a 25-27 million guarantee. Half or nearly half guarenteed.
It really doesn't matter about respect if the market doesn't see it that way. Right now the only two teams rumored to be interested in Hightower is the Patriots and Titans. Sure a big offer could come in, but with each passing moment, Hightower's hands are tied. He'll probably take the best offer on the table or take Patriots best offer to come win. It's really that simple.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 12, 2017 8:09:25 GMT -5
The worry is that if he doesn't get close to what he wants, he takes the Titans offer. A lot of players find it easier to take less than they wanted on a new team, than the team they are on. It's the Patriots owe me for all the years I got paid very little thing. That's were the respect thing comes in. It doesn't make a ton of sense, but you see it all the time. Welker wouldn't take the Broncos offer from us, but he would from them. I know thats not a perfect example because there's a lot more to that, but it does show how players think. We offered a better deal than them, he wanted more from us, so we moved on. He got less.
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Post by voiceofreason on Mar 12, 2017 8:25:39 GMT -5
Hightower needs to realize his injury history and the fact he is not considered an edge rusher count against him. The guys with the sack numbers coming off the edge are the ones who have driven up the cap # for LBs, what would the top of the market be for ILBs. He is a very different player with his size and ability to do so many things really well, if not great. It doesn't help that his tackle production isn't that high at all, so he is not a tackling machine.
I don't think anyone is offering what he wants and that is the problem, he has over valued himself. I hope that doesn't keep him from coming back, pride.
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Post by voiceofreason on Mar 12, 2017 8:40:04 GMT -5
I would go 5 yrs
62.5 million
20-25 signing bonus
30 million guaranteed
per game bonus that protects the Pats if he doesn't stay healthy.
backend roster bonus for added protection
So show him the money but have a lot of it be performance/injury related.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Mar 12, 2017 8:53:32 GMT -5
The worry is that if he doesn't get close to what he wants, he takes the Titans offer. A lot of players find it easier to take less than they wanted on a new team, than the team they are on. It's the Patriots owe me for all the years I got paid very little thing. That's were the respect thing comes in. It doesn't make a ton of sense, but you see it all the time. Welker wouldn't take the Broncos offer from us, but he would from them. I know thats not a perfect example because there's a lot more to that, but it does show how players think. We offered a better deal than them, he wanted more from us, so we moved on. He got less. Welker and BB didn't have a great relationship, whereas Hightower and BB have a great working relationship and great amount of respect for one another. It's apples to oranges with both their situations. I can't see Hightower taking a similar amount to go lose somewhere else, no matter how much "respect" he thinks he deserves. |
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Post by voiceofreason on Mar 12, 2017 8:59:16 GMT -5
WOW, if you want to see TB's next toy watch some of this. Talk about taking the top off the D.... this guy is explosive, just runs by people and doesn't get caught. Can you imagine if Tom can get used to his speed and not under throw him, get on the same page with Cooks and the Pats will be unstoppable. How would you game plan for Edelman, Gronk and Cooks on the field most of the time and then going between 2 TE, 2 RB, 4 wide. Cooks and Gronk both demand a double team then Edelman, how do you stop that? Man are they deep. Looking forward to seeing the play action with Cooks going deep. www.metro.us/boston/patriots-trade-for-brandin-cooks-may-be-shooting-for-undefeated-season/zsJqck---p9D0dvLIDPkyk/ |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Mar 12, 2017 9:14:01 GMT -5
It's the underneath routes that are going to make Cooks deadly in this offense. Sure they'll be some over the top plays because he's just faster than even most safeties or anyone on the football field (which is incredible to think about), but he'll make his money making a 5 yard catch into a 25 yard plus gain.
How do you stop a offense with Edelman, Gronk, Cooks, Hogan, Mitchell, Dion Lewis, James White, and hopefully Amendola?
You can't, if they're all healthy. It's really that simple. You have to go point for point and hopefully you can get enough offense to match up with them.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 12, 2017 9:44:34 GMT -5
The worry is that if he doesn't get close to what he wants, he takes the Titans offer. A lot of players find it easier to take less than they wanted on a new team, than the team they are on. It's the Patriots owe me for all the years I got paid very little thing. That's were the respect thing comes in. It doesn't make a ton of sense, but you see it all the time. Welker wouldn't take the Broncos offer from us, but he would from them. I know thats not a perfect example because there's a lot more to that, but it does show how players think. We offered a better deal than them, he wanted more from us, so we moved on. He got less. Welker and BB didn't have a great relationship, whereas Hightower and BB have a great working relationship and great amount of respect for one another. It's apples to oranges with both their situations. I can't see Hightower taking a similar amount to go lose somewhere else, no matter how much "respect" he thinks he deserves. I don't remember Welker and Bill not having a good relationship. Bill always spoke very highly about him. It all went South over money, respect and pride. Also by Hightowers comments he was upset at playing under 5th year option. Sure sounds like a guy that wanted a long-term deal last year. I can see the Titans back loading a deal, so Hightower get this huge deal, even if he's unlikely to see the money on the back end. Patriots don't do those fake contracts like other teams do. We'll see how much he cares about winning and how much he cares about money. As fans we think turning down a small sum of money to be on a winning team is worth it. Most players don't feel that way, they want the most money. He's got two rings, so I can see him going to a young up and coming team for more money. The Titans aren't the Browns, they seem to have a bright future, with a good young QB. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 12, 2017 9:52:24 GMT -5
UMass is right that in a lot of cases that a player will take less from another team than he will from his home team. BUT this situation seems different. All reports are there was good dialog and the Patriots showed him respect by not putting the transition tag number on him. The tag would have almost ensured he were back here because other teams don't like offering contracts other teams can match, especially a team like the Patriots with huge cap space because they will just sit and wait the 5 days or whatever they have to match and tie up the other teams operation.
Also registering Guarantees, did you notice what the Pats did with Gilmore's contract? They guaranteed his salaries in years one and 2... this is different than a signing bonus as it lessens the prorated money that goes into the dead money. If they are concerned long term they can give him a lower signing bonus but bigger salaries in years one and 2 and guarantee those.
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Post by voiceofreason on Mar 12, 2017 11:21:23 GMT -5
It's the underneath routes that are going to make Cooks deadly in this offense. Sure they'll be some over the top plays because he's just faster than even most safeties or anyone on the football field (which is incredible to think about), but he'll make his money making a 5 yard catch into a 25 yard plus gain. How do you stop a offense with Edelman, Gronk, Cooks, Hogan, Mitchell, Dion Lewis, James White, and hopefully Amendola? You can't, if they're all healthy. It's really that simple. You have to go point for point and hopefully you can get enough offense to match up with them. With all those weapons and don't forget a big feature back like Blount. Play action should be a big part of the offense with the 2 TE sets and Cook going over the top, safeties will not be able to cheat up or risk being beat over the top. This O is going to be so tough to even slow down. Add to that an Oline that should just be better. Daniels should be able to have some fun, Brady will throw for 5000. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 12, 2017 11:34:01 GMT -5
If Joe Thuney takes the second year leap that Mason did and we have a healthy offensive line the offense will be historically good.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Mar 12, 2017 15:05:45 GMT -5
Welker and BB didn't have a great relationship, whereas Hightower and BB have a great working relationship and great amount of respect for one another. It's apples to oranges with both their situations. I can't see Hightower taking a similar amount to go lose somewhere else, no matter how much "respect" he thinks he deserves. I don't remember Welker and Bill not having a good relationship. Bill always spoke very highly about him. It all went South over money, respect and pride. Also by Hightowers comments he was upset at playing under 5th year option. Sure sounds like a guy that wanted a long-term deal last year. Go read/look up the post game video where Welker wanted to "stick it to Bill." Also Welker was suspended for a quarter for making foot jokes against Rex Ryan. Their relationship wasn't filled with mutual respect. It seemed like Welker couldn't wait to leave town. |
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Post by voiceofreason on Mar 12, 2017 21:00:05 GMT -5
It is really pretty simple, if the Pats resign Hightower and keep Butler then go resign Blount. It makes them odds on favorites to win it all next year, yes they are already the favorites but the odds will get crazy low.
They keep the team intact for the most part and then add a Cooks to the offense and a Gilmore to the D, it is almost unfair. Add a big time back and it is just crazy. The depth is so good there isn't much room for many draft picks.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Mar 13, 2017 5:05:41 GMT -5
It wouldn't be a NFL offseason without the Jets trying to pee in the Patriots pool. They are set to meet with Hightower through Monday.
I hope the Jets fail miserably at signing him...so I can laugh at them....again....like I usually do, every offseason.
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 13, 2017 6:07:35 GMT -5
Everything looks great right now but if they don't resign Hightower and Butler isn't here then the defense goes from being potentially great to a potential weakness. Albeit one that may not matter much with that offense... at least until the playoffs....
I'd put the odds of Butler player with Gilmore at under 20%
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Post by texs31 on Mar 13, 2017 9:36:56 GMT -5
RB Rex Burkhead in for a visit
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 13, 2017 10:03:47 GMT -5
RB Rex Burkhead in for a visit I wonder if he can play special teams... if so I can see him being a good get. Other than that I look at him as a depth guy/training camp player who is an emergency if nothing else materializes with Blount or another back. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 13, 2017 11:24:27 GMT -5
I don't remember Welker and Bill not having a good relationship. Bill always spoke very highly about him. It all went South over money, respect and pride. Also by Hightowers comments he was upset at playing under 5th year option. Sure sounds like a guy that wanted a long-term deal last year. Go read/look up the post game video where Welker wanted to "stick it to Bill." Also Welker was suspended for a quarter for making foot jokes against Rex Ryan. Their relationship wasn't filled with mutual respect. It seemed like Welker couldn't wait to leave town. You have it all wrong, it was joke. Welker tried using the Broncos offer to get more from Pat's and wanted to come back. The Pat's moved on and signed Danny. This was the Pat's normal way of dealing with players, we'll give you X, if you won't take that were moving on. It has nothing to do with relationship. They did the same thing with players like Wilfork and Mankind, players Bill loved. |
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Post by texs31 on Mar 13, 2017 11:41:42 GMT -5
Yes, he plays ST. Likely replacement for Bolden.
EDIT: Seeing numbers suggesting he's a better runner than BB though.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 13, 2017 12:14:57 GMT -5
Everything looks great right now but if they don't resign Hightower and Butler isn't here then the defense goes from being potentially great to a potential weakness. Albeit one that may not matter much with that offense... at least until the playoffs.... I'd put the odds of Butler player with Gilmore at under 20% So you think they trade him or don't match the offer he gets from another team? |
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 13, 2017 12:25:42 GMT -5
Mick Foley aka Mandkind was a great wrestler but I'm not aware of Belichick loving him.
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 13, 2017 12:27:31 GMT -5
Everything looks great right now but if they don't resign Hightower and Butler isn't here then the defense goes from being potentially great to a potential weakness. Albeit one that may not matter much with that offense... at least until the playoffs.... I'd put the odds of Butler player with Gilmore at under 20% So you think they trade him or don't match the offer he gets from another team? Yea - it's a prediction not a what I think should happen... I doubt they match an offer unless it's a much lower offer than I am expecting. I do like the reports that Butler wants to be a Patriot for life. |
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Post by voiceofreason on Mar 13, 2017 12:46:31 GMT -5
If Butler wants to be a Patriot for life then I hope they get a deal done, a Butler Gilmore CB combo would be very nice. Considering any team that wants to sign Butler would have to give up a 1st rd pick the Pats should be able to get it done. If they do a sign and trade maybe they take a 2nd and 3rd, either way the Pats will do ok.
In regards to Hightower, given the league is becoming more of a passing league every year and the Pats look like they will put up plenty of points, his value is being marginalized. Too bad for him but it is what it is.
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