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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 19, 2017 10:04:55 GMT -5
The contracts of Jason Pierre-Paul and Chandler Jones really highlight how differently the Patriots do things. I think it also sheds some light on why it's not out of the realm of possibility that they would spend big money on two corners. Especially two guys in their mid 20s who are great compliments to one another. Yes, you add that money to the McCourty contract and you have a ton of money tied up on the secondary. However, they have very low money tied up in other positions which allows them to do that.
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Post by jmei on Mar 19, 2017 10:25:23 GMT -5
RE: Butler, also worth noting that his agent is relatively inexperienced, and Butler is the first NFL player that he has represented. That likely accounts for at least some of the friction between player and team.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 19, 2017 15:11:13 GMT -5
The contracts of Jason Pierre-Paul and Chandler Jones really highlight how differently the Patriots do things. I think it also sheds some light on why it's not out of the realm of possibility that they would spend big money on two corners. Especially two guys in their mid 20s who are great compliments to one another. Yes, you add that money to the McCourty contract and you have a ton of money tied up on the secondary. However, they have very low money tied up in other positions which allows them to do that. They have a ton of core players becoming free agents in the next two years. Nevermind the extension you want to give Jimmy. It's all about spreading the money around to all areas. I want to keep Butler for next year, but long-term is another question. It all depends on the contract. What are you going to give him? |
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 19, 2017 15:39:27 GMT -5
All I said is it's not out of the realm of possibilities they give him an extension. That has nothing to do with what I want them to do with Jimmy.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 19, 2017 16:13:36 GMT -5
All I said is it's not out of the realm of possibilities they give him an extension. That has nothing to do with what I want them to do with Jimmy. Yes it does. You want them to sign Jimmy and made a case why they should sign Butler. There's only so much money and we have a ton of players that will need to be paid in next two years. I don't see how you sign both. I think it's more likely they don't sign either to long-term deals. Reports have pegged a Garoppolo extension at 5 years 75 million, if we wanted to go that route. That proposal would kick in this year. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 19, 2017 18:12:02 GMT -5
I think you need to re read my post. I simply laid out an argument as to why they COULD plausibly sign Butler to an extension.
Yes, I've also said they could carry Jimmy and it wouldn't surprise me if that was Bills plan.
I can also lay out a case for why they could extend Solder and James White and Edelman etc. those are all independent things and doesn't mean they can or will do them all.
When you think of the Patriots figure is it a static thought of they are definitely going to sign players A B and C and let players D E and F walk? Or do you look at it and say they could go a bunch of different roads?
I've never said they are going to Keep Brady, extend Garoppolo and extend Butler, sign Solder and Edelman and extend Cooks etc, etc...
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 19, 2017 19:00:43 GMT -5
You've made multiple posts about signing Butler and Jimmy long-term. Sure it could be a one or the other but from reading your posts that's not what it sounds like you want. It sure sounds like you want to sign them both.
You for sure haven't made multiple posts on signing players like Solder, Edleman and Cooks.
So who do you want more? Butler or Jimmy?
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 19, 2017 19:05:00 GMT -5
Well you're just misconstruing me. I'm not going to revisit arguments but I will say a lot of paths are possible so try to take a post on its own especially one like the Butler one above where I never even mention what I want or think will happen...
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 19, 2017 19:09:52 GMT -5
Who do I want more? Oh man, in 2017 I want Butler more.. personally, while I've said I understand trading him. My preference is to let him play on the tender if you can't work a contract you and he like.
I am so torn on Jimmy I don't know. It's such a damn important position and there is too much info we don't know. We can speculate on probabilities but we don't know the real answers.
But there is no question next year Butler is more important to trying to win a super bowl. And I'd rather let him walk in free agency than not have him on the team for at least one more year.
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 19, 2017 19:13:53 GMT -5
This article breaks down a possible Garoppolo extension. There are some flaws in my mind but it's an interesting breakdown and it does illustrate how you can work the cap making it feasible and under these circumstances you could carry butler too especially if you get him to agree to around 11m a year, which I think 11m a year for him as a restricted free agent is reasonable. I know Mickey Loomis is a dumbass but is NO really going to trade a first and give him 13? www.patspulpit.com/2017/3/5/14810176/what-would-a-jimmy-garoppolo-extension-look-like |
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 19, 2017 19:16:11 GMT -5
By the way the above is just a spit ball on one of the ways they can go. Don't take it as more than that. Unlikely perhaps but it's a road they could go down and it wouldn't shock me.
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 21, 2017 7:05:42 GMT -5
I'm going to throw a name out for the Patriots to target middle of the draft. Trent Taylor WR Louisiana Tech. He seems like he would fit this offense to a T (I don't get that expression) and not just because he's a small White guy (don't need Pete Abraham on my case). His measurables are not the best but his production is off the charts. He's also not getting a ton of helium so he could be had in the 4th or 5th round. Would be a nice Amendola replacement as a developmental prospect to eventually replace Edelman in the offense in a few years.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 21, 2017 17:58:55 GMT -5
I'm going to throw a name out for the Patriots to target middle of the draft. Trent Taylor WR Louisiana Tech. He seems like he would fit this offense to a T (I don't get that expression) and not just because he's a small White guy (don't need Pete Abraham on my case). His measurables are not the best but his production is off the charts. He's also not getting a ton of helium so he could be had in the 4th or 5th round. Would be a nice Amendola replacement as a developmental prospect to eventually replace Edelman in the offense in a few years. He does fit Patriots mold, has a good 3 cone drill time and 20 yard shuttle times and great production. The only thing is he's 5'7''. Welker was 5'9'' and Edleman is 5'10''. I can see Patriots looking at him in rounds 6 and 7. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 21, 2017 18:33:55 GMT -5
I saw he measured at 5'8 at the combine but I've seen him listed at 5'9 which is probably when they measure with cleats
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Post by ryan24 on Mar 22, 2017 6:37:51 GMT -5
With what you know right now, what do the pats do in the draft? The window on brady is small. Do the pats put all their eggs in one basket to give brady a chance to win? Or will bill continue to play it the way he has always done? How many more years does bill coach? If he was to retire, will he still run/ influence how the front office is run? Last question. If bill did not luck into brady would he be as successful as he has been?
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 22, 2017 6:41:44 GMT -5
With what you know right now, what do the pats do in the draft? The window on brady is small. Do the pats put all their eggs in one basket to give brady a chance to win? Or will bill continue to play it the way he has always done? How many more years does bill coach? If he was to retire, will he still run/ influence how the front office is run? Last question. If bill did not luck into brady would he be as successful as he has been? They will never put all their eggs into one basket will Bill around. They will pick the same as they always do, based on what they like on the board at the time. I say Bill coaches at least 5 years more. If he retires I think he's gone. Let's say McDaniels is still here and wants to be the HC if Belichick stayed to be in charge of the front office that would be like what Parcells did to him. And of course not, if Bill didn't have Brady or Brady Bill neither would be where they are now. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 22, 2017 12:43:06 GMT -5
I saw he measured at 5'8 at the combine but I've seen him listed at 5'9 which is probably when they measure with cleats One draft magazine had him at 5'7'', I just checked and another one has him at 5'8''. Did a little digging and it looks like he's 5'7 3/4 '' and they rounded up. I like him, but for next year I would want Danny or Michael as my 5th guy. With the size of our current guys I don't think you want to add another very small player. So I would project him to be on practice squad, thus I wouldn't want to spend a really high pick on him. Who knows though, maybe he's good enough to make team. One thing is for certain he seems like a perfect Patriot player and we could use a young player to groom to replace or backup Edleman. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 22, 2017 12:46:38 GMT -5
With what you know right now, what do the pats do in the draft? The window on brady is small. Do the pats put all their eggs in one basket to give brady a chance to win? Or will bill continue to play it the way he has always done? How many more years does bill coach? If he was to retire, will he still run/ influence how the front office is run? Last question. If bill did not luck into brady would he be as successful as he has been? They will never put all their eggs into one basket will Bill around. They will pick the same as they always do, based on what they like on the board at the time. I say Bill coaches at least 5 years more. If he retires I think he's gone. Let's say McDaniels is still here and wants to be the HC if Belichick stayed to be in charge of the front office that would be like what Parcells did to him. And of course not, if Bill didn't have Brady or Brady Bill neither would be where they are now. I just wanted to add, that the Cooks trade sure seems like a we're going for it type move. It's about as close of an eggs all in one basket type move as Patriots will ever make. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Mar 22, 2017 13:11:00 GMT -5
I think BB just really coveted Cooks, I don't think it was directly linked with the Patriots loading up and going for it. He got Cooks for good value too.
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Post by texs31 on Mar 22, 2017 15:26:54 GMT -5
Don't these athletes know we hang on every word???
Malcolm Butler just posted on Instagram a picture of him dressed in a suit with the caption: "Nothing changed but the change. #BLESSED"
So does it mean:
- Nothing changed (I'm on the same team) but the change (I'm making more money) - which could mean either the tender or an extension
or
- Nothing changed (I'm still the same person) but the change (making more money) - meaning an extension with another team.
Or, it could be like IT's eyeball tweets and it means absolutely nothing at all.
EDIT: And then he turned comments off on the post.
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Post by ryan24 on Mar 22, 2017 16:32:21 GMT -5
They will never put all their eggs into one basket will Bill around. They will pick the same as they always do, based on what they like on the board at the time. I say Bill coaches at least 5 years more. If he retires I think he's gone. Let's say McDaniels is still here and wants to be the HC if Belichick stayed to be in charge of the front office that would be like what Parcells did to him. And of course not, if Bill didn't have Brady or Brady Bill neither would be where they are now. I just wanted to add, that the Cooks trade sure seems like a we're going for it type move. It's about as close of an eggs all in one basket type move as Patriots will ever make. I totally agree with this idea on the cooks trade. Except for the 2 yrs moss played, brady has never had a high profile receiver. Now they trade a high pick for a receiver. Cooks will create more room for all on the field thus helping against the pass rush, because brady will have the Hogan etc's open sooner. Makes the pass rush against more ineffective. it is the same as getting an all league lineman in front of brady. Would they had done this if brady was 32? I also can take exception that brady needed bill. I think it leans more to bill needed brady. brady made it work on offense with less to allow bill's genius on defense to come thru. Because brady scored so much it allowed bill to focus on trying to prevent the pass. I think , I have watch pro game for over 50 yrs, I feel comfortable in saying that brady is the best of all time. |
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Post by jmei on Mar 23, 2017 15:15:02 GMT -5
Revis reportedly spotted in Boston today. His $6M of dead money with the Jets has offset language, which means that if no one will give him a contract of more than $6M, it wouldn't matter how much he gets paid on his new contract and he'd presumably sign for the league minimum. He's not a lockdown guy anymore, but I think he could still be a good #2 or #3 CB, especially if you gave him safety help. He's clearly in physical decline and is increasingly susceptible to getting beat deep, but his route recognition is still pretty good, and maybe playing on a contender gets him motivated to be in better shape and to do a better job of tackling.
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Post by jimed14 on Mar 23, 2017 16:54:13 GMT -5
Revis reportedly spotted in Boston today. His $6M of dead money with the Jets has offset language, which means that if no one will give him a contract of more than $6M, it wouldn't matter how much he gets paid on his new contract and he'd presumably sign for the league minimum. He's not a lockdown guy anymore, but I think he could still be a good #2 or #3 CB, especially if you gave him safety help. He's clearly in physical decline and is increasingly susceptible to getting beat deep, but his route recognition is still pretty good, and maybe playing on a contender gets him motivated to be in better shape and to do a better job of tackling. I thought he was considering moving to safety? |
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Post by jmei on Mar 23, 2017 17:45:33 GMT -5
I don't know that he'd be a very good safety. He's never been a physical tackler or a particularly rangy guy, even at his peak. His strength is jamming guys at the line, playing trail coverage, recognizing routes and beating the receiver to the spot. Those skills don't translate well to safety. The route recognition parts of it might, but diagnosing routes when you're looking back towards the line of scrimmage is different from doing so in man coverage. Revis was a pretty bad zone corner, so I'm not sure he'd be a great safety.
I actually think he'd make for a decent slot corner. Those guys are rarely burners, and you get away with a lot of grabbing and holding on the interior (which Revis is good at).
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 23, 2017 22:59:17 GMT -5
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