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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 4, 2017 7:47:18 GMT -5
Also, considering the team they have... I would be happy to see them use a 3rd to 5th on Sidney Jones and rehab him... an Achilles injury is no joke and it's probably a long shot he can fully recover but the potential reward is huge...
Full disclosure: I know very little about Sidney Jones other than he was a potential top 15 pick before his injury. The recovery is going to take hard core dedication so I would trust the Patriots to do their homework. If the guy is a football junky who likes to watch film and live - breath and eat football then I would take him as high has round 3, if I were the Patriots and not in love with another player on the board. If not, then I may just take him off my board because it's going to take some serious dedication for his guy.
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Post by digit on Apr 4, 2017 9:14:32 GMT -5
I think it's more likely a team like Cleveland would take him, since Sidney Jones have a -lot- of picks.
Maybe the Patriots could red-shirt him if they have nobody they're in love with, but personally I'd hope they take Jake Butt as their 'rehab' guy.
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 4, 2017 9:33:32 GMT -5
Butt is a good target too but I don't know if they need another injured tight end... if he falls far enough then I can see stashing him on IR.
If you draft a rookie who's injured and he never plays in camp or during the season will his rookie contract toll like the Volmer contract did?
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 4, 2017 21:35:56 GMT -5
I'm more worried about Butt, second time he's torn ACL in that knee. I stay away unless he really falls in draft.
Jones is going to fall, but it would be very surprising if he went past third round. He thinks he'll play this year.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 4, 2017 21:45:12 GMT -5
If your looking for a TE in that third/fourth round I would target Bucky Hodges.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 4, 2017 22:15:12 GMT -5
Per Todd McShay's tier rankings he only has 19 prospects as first round picks. That's a low number and a surprise, as everyone seems to love this draft. It seems the depth of this draft is what people love.
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 5, 2017 7:17:17 GMT -5
Per Todd McShay's tier rankings he only has 19 prospects as first round picks. That's a low number and a surprise, as everyone seems to love this draft. It seems the depth of this draft is what people love. All the more reason why the Patriots would trade their first round pick.
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Post by texs31 on Apr 5, 2017 17:37:35 GMT -5
Pats resigned Bolden. Gotta believe that makes carrying a Blount (who doesn't contribute on ST) rather difficult.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 5, 2017 18:40:34 GMT -5
Just a depth move in my opinion. I think Bolden has an uphill battle to make team and if I had to guess right now he doesn't make the team unless someone gets injured.
I don't think it means no Blount, as they are totally different players. Bolden can't do what Blount can. Thing is we could resign Blount and I still don't think that makes him a roster lock either. I still think we bring in a couple of rookies to compete with him.
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Post by texs31 on Apr 5, 2017 19:02:13 GMT -5
Of course he's a different player but that's not the point. At full health, NE kept 4 RBS active (Blount, Lewis, White and Bolden - I'm grouping Devlin in with the TEs).
Based on his contract and the reports out there, Burkhead is going to get a lot of touches (I hesitate to use the phrase "lead back" but you get the picture). So if Rex is getting Blount's touches, then that 4th RB will see little offensive time. Im also assuming Burkhead's ST snaps get reduced if he's getting lots of touches.
So that 4th active RB is, primarily, a ST player who COULD play RB in a pinch. That's more Bolden than Blount.
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 5, 2017 19:05:39 GMT -5
Bolden is a running back as much as Slater is a wide receiver. He's a core four special Teamer and that's about it. The question will be more about if they can carry that core four spot that doesn't do anything else for you.
Edit: ok please don't give me snap counts to prove he's more of a RB than Slater is a WR. Bolden had zero part of the running game last year. He has nothing to do with their plans there.
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Post by texs31 on Apr 5, 2017 19:33:44 GMT -5
Not sure who that's directed towards but, yes, he's a ST that is listed with the RBS (and they, typically, will only have 4 active).
EDIT : Since you are referencing his usage including last year (where he rarely saw offensive snaps), I'm assuming you'd agree they CAN carry him.
What they rarely do is carry someone who is down on the offensive or defensive depth charts who doesn't contribute on ST.
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 5, 2017 19:35:04 GMT -5
Was more a general comment but I don't think he affects if they resign Blount. I also think he could be a camp cut, but we will know more after we see the details of the contract
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Post by texs31 on Apr 5, 2017 19:40:11 GMT -5
Based on the past rosters, if Blount is signed and active, it likely means one of Burkhead, White and Lewis is either inactive or getting significantly fewer touches than we are currently expecting.
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 5, 2017 19:40:34 GMT -5
The Sherman rumors are interesting and make me feel better about the Butler situation. I kind of feel that if they deal Butler it's because they have a Sherman trade in their back pocket... Sherman for 2 years at cap hits just over 11m would be pretty nice. As much as I'd like to keep Butler, it's hard to think that Sherman at 2 years 11m per might be better than Butler for this one year then likely losing him..
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 5, 2017 19:43:20 GMT -5
Based on the past rosters, if Blount is signed and active, it likely means one of Burkhead, White and Lewis is either inactive or getting significantly fewer touches than we are currently expecting. Yes but Burkhead also plays on all 4 special teams units so the roster construction could be different. Like it may affect how many "safeties" they carry. Regardless, either way Bolden doesn't necessarily affect Blount as much as Burkhead did.
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Post by texs31 on Apr 5, 2017 19:52:29 GMT -5
But that goes to my earlier point/question. If they are increasing his workload, will they back off on his ST snaps? That's very possible.
I just see it more likely that they carry a ST guy than a RB who may not touch the ball save for very specific situations.
That just hasn't been their MO.
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 5, 2017 20:18:59 GMT -5
By the way I see no need for Blount. I don't particularly like him and think he's over-rated; I'm just not so sure the Patriots don't still want him back.
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Post by texs31 on Apr 5, 2017 20:58:31 GMT -5
In fairness, everything I've said tonight was likely true BEFORE today's signing of Bolden.
Blount may be a guy they can wait on anyway. Not a big market for RBs. He seems to like playing for BB. A Celtics fan (okay, that might not factor). And he may be a guy who doesn't want to go through a full camp anyway. Just keep an eye on him. If he signs elsewhere, oh well. If you have an injury, maybe you bring him in.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 5, 2017 22:42:23 GMT -5
First in regards to Sherman I thought they talked trade before they signed Gilmore. I looked at that as they might have rather traded for Sherman than sign Gilmore if the price was right. I took it the price was high so they moved on. Just my take from what I read.
I don't think they brought Burkhead in to be the lead RB. I look at him as a Bolden, will play all 4 special teams units and be an option in running game. That's a big upgrade over Bolden, because he's a good runner. At most I expect him to split carries with a rookie or a player like Blount/AP. More likely he gets 5-10 carries a game to change up running systems and confuse D. We haven't had two good power type RBs in years on active roster. Everyone is making assumptions about Burkhead's role based on the money. I think he got that much because he's a core special teams player and a good runner. We all know core special teams players get paid more by Patriots than other teams just look at Slater and Bolden. That's the reason they don't play Blount a lot. He's limited in what he does. No special teams and he's not a receiving option.
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 6, 2017 7:55:17 GMT -5
I thought the same on Sherman until recent reports so now I'm curious. It's not going to happen regardless but I figured I'd comment about it.
Regarding Burkhead, I don't know. I think you may be underselling his role. No way do I think he's a Bolden type. Bolden literally had 1 rushing attempt last season. He was not a running back for all intensive purposes. Then in 2015 he was only part of the running game the end of the season when Blount and Lewis were out. Basically, Bolden has had no planned role in the running game at all. Not even game specific roles so for Burkhead to be like Bolden he will have to be an injury/garbage time running back only. I think the Patriots have much higher hopes for him than that. I agree that his special teams value is attractive and that it helps mitigate against him not being able to be that "lead" type back, but I think they have big plans offensively for Burkhead.
Theoretically, he can run between the tackles, pass block and receive the ball. He might be a big upgrade over Blount. He's younger, more versatile as a RB and as a football player.
All that being said... lead back for the Patriots is different than other teams and Burkheads snaps per game will vary just like everyone else's in the backfield should they all be healthy.
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Post by digit on Apr 6, 2017 10:02:44 GMT -5
Analysis for Rex Burkhead at the time he was signed indicated most people saw him as a four-down back type - someone who could handle all downs in varying role, beacuse his skills -were- that diverse. I imagine signing Bolden means Burkhead plays less on fourth down, but his skills as a running back is considerably more rounded than Blount's. He's a bigger version of Dion Lewis, really. www.numberfire.com/nfl/news/13570/rex-burkhead-is-a-sneaky-and-important-signing-for-the-patriots
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Post by texs31 on Apr 6, 2017 14:50:29 GMT -5
Not sure who that's directed towards but, yes, he's a ST that is listed with the RBS (and they, typically, will only have 4 active). EDIT : Since you are referencing his usage including last year (where he rarely saw offensive snaps), I'm assuming you'd agree they CAN carry him. What they rarely do is carry someone who is down on the offensive or defensive depth charts who doesn't contribute on ST. For added context, last year NE carried 8 players that, for the most part, only contributed on special teams (N/I P/K/LS) - Mingo, Bolden, King, Grissom, Jones, Richards, Slater and Ebner. That being said, Bolden is as much in competition with those guys as he would be with any RB. That I admit. But I'd just add that, in no game last year, did a 4th RB get anything other than mop up snaps so the need to carry a guy who won't get snaps either on O or ST is unlikely or, better, a break from the norm (I'm perusing snap counts for 2015 as well and that thinking seems to hold). However, to UMass' point, if we're over-estimating Burkhead's role, then things could change.
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Post by digit on Apr 6, 2017 15:33:18 GMT -5
They are not paying Burkhead twice as much as Bolden to just do special teams when they could have simply signed Brandon Bolden in the first place.
They're not even paying Matthew Slater, pro-bowl special teamer, -that- much...
Slater is making 1.8 million in 2017.
Burkhead is 3.15 million.
There's a reason most analysis of that signing says 'Patriots paying Burkhead like he's their starting back'. It's because he's paid like a running back, not a special teamer. Bolden made about 1.6 mil last year? It should be around that too, if he were really going to be a core special teamer.
I don't think it likely at all that Belichick has suddenly decided to set a new upper salary range for a free agent special team that's not even a pro bowler, and much more likely that he's settled on 3.1 million as being good for a well-rounded RUNNING BACK... which, incidentally, is also three times as much as what Blount made last year, and twice as much as what Dion Lewis will make in 2017.
Whether Burkhead actually -is- good enough to be a running back for a full year is another thing, but I think the special teams ability is a bonus feature, not the main feature that Burkhead's being paid for. It means his -floor- is Brandon Bolden, but his ceiling is higher than that, and he's being paid for that ceiling in this case.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 6, 2017 16:14:30 GMT -5
Come on they didn't pay the guy 3.1 million because he's a good well rounded running back. He doesn't even have a 100 carries in his career. He got that because he's a core special teams player that is going to be a useful piece in our running game, unlike Bolden. Our 4 active RBs on game day will all be able to help offense. Which is something Bolden couldn't do. Think what Slater would be paid if he could actually play WR and give you true depth there.
Think 2015 when Blount went down we had to bring in a guy off the street because Bolden is not a good runner. It killed our running game and might have cost us a Superbowl in my opinion. Burkhead helps make sure that never happens.
In my opinion Bill is not expecting him to lead team in carries. That would be kind of crazy for a player that has never had more than around 75 carries in a season. Maybe he is awesome and he becomes the lead back, but I don't think that's the plan. Like I said before at most I think the plan is that he splits carries with a rookie or a Blount/AP. More likely he gets 5-10 carries a game. You bring him in for a few series a game to change up running styles and force the D to adjust to a new back. It's what teams like the Falcons, Cincy and Bills did last year and had great success.
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