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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 19, 2017 8:39:30 GMT -5
Even if Brady only missed 2-3 games next year having Garappolo to play those games is much more valuable than a second rd pick if you are trying to maximize Brady's time left. Home field advantage in the playoffs is incredibly important. Like I said I'm not against trading Jimmy but if it's not a big package I'm not doing it. Yea, the return you may be able to get the following year would be less, but I'd take another year if Jimmy we w safety net plus a 3rd rd pick vs just a second rd pick.
I also think you guys are underselling Jimmy, especially in this system. If he gets traded to a Cleveland well then I'm sure you will look right, but out early Brady in Cleveland and he's not close to what he turned out to be either in all likelihood.
Cassel and Jimmy aren't really comparable situations. The talent level isn't even close and scouts and football people have said as much. I'll be very surprised if the return isn't high (Cleveland 12 being low point) first rd pick(s) plus some. The return for the right to draft Jared Goff was 2 picks in each of the first 3 rounds. There are plenty of arguments why Jimmy is a better a much better bet and it will cost less than that.
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Post by costpet on Feb 19, 2017 9:09:31 GMT -5
It's a quarterback driven league. If you don't have a franchise type, you're going nowhere. JG looks like a franchise type. So, teams like Chicago, SF, and Cleveland will go hard to get him. (Jets need one, too, but forgetaboutit) If those teams don't offer at least a 1st round pick, they'll end up with a college type with no guarantee. How many QB's has Cleveland drafted? How did they turn out? One of those teams will give the Pats an offer they can't refuse. eg 1st and 3rd this year or 1st this year and 2nd next year. Something like that. When Bill is in a position of weakness, he still wins. When he's in a position of strength, look out.
Butler said that during practice, he can't tell the difference between Brady and JG. That's pretty good. In fact, it might be so good that Bill just decides to keep him no matter what. I'd love to dive into Bill's head, but I'm sure it's way too crowded for me to fit.
Either way Jimmy gets paid.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 19, 2017 14:54:12 GMT -5
I disagree. This is kind of tacky, but here's the value I see from them in terms people on this board may be familiar with: TB12: 8 WAR JG: 3.5 WAR JB: 0.5 WAR JG would be a solid starting quarterback on an NFL team right now. Brady is the best. Brissett isn't yet close to being a solid starting quarterback. You're much higher on Garoppolo than I am. I think that right now, he's at best an average QB (and probable a little worse than that) with upside. That's still super valuable, because slightly below-average QBs are really hard to get, and a team like the Broncos or Texans with just a slightly below-average QB would be a Super Bowl contender. But it's not a 3.5 WAR quarterback. To put it another way-- Garoppolo's backup value is mostly relevant if Brady only misses a few games and they need a guy to hold down the fort while Brady heals. If Brady is out for the year, Garoppolo is probably not good enough to lead the team through the playoffs anyways. In that context, I don't see a big enough gap between Garoppolo and Brissett to make it worth foregoing a trade package on the order of a late first-round pick this year. Garoppolo and Brissett aren't even close. Garoppolo would give you a chance, you have zero chance with Brissett right now. Now I wouldn't let that get in my way of trading Garoppolo, but you seem low on Garoppolo and high on Brissett with your first comment. The gap between the two is massive. |
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Post by voiceofreason on Feb 20, 2017 7:31:25 GMT -5
For all of you out there who keep saying Brissett is this or that. Unless you go to practice weekly to watch them play how the hell can you say with any certainty that he is not ready to be the backup to Brady. With a full off season and training camp I have no problem with him being the #1 guy off the bench.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 20, 2017 13:27:04 GMT -5
Brissett was drafted as a developmental QB. Has a lot of things going for him, but needs to work on being more accurate throwing the ball, per scouting reports. Watching him play that is right on. Now he injured his thumb and went on IR, so how much practice time did he get last year?
Again not saying you don't trade Jimmy because we need a great backup QB. At the same time questioning if Brissett is ready is a legit worry. As he was seen as a project QB, unlike Jimmy when he got drafted.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Feb 20, 2017 23:02:40 GMT -5
For all of you out there who keep saying Brissett is this or that. Unless you go to practice weekly to watch them play how the hell can you say with any certainty that he is not ready to be the backup to Brady. With a full off season and training camp I have no problem with him being the #1 guy off the bench. I mean... you're saying this on a forum in which the members have likely seen none of the players they're talking about play (save for the MLB club). |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 21, 2017 5:42:05 GMT -5
Good news on the Amendola front. Mike Giardi was reporting that Amendola would most likely be willing to take another pay cut to stay here. He said Amendola has family in this area and loves making history here. At least keep this guy if you're the Patriots. Keep Brady's weapons around. Well except for Bennett, maybe you can live with that if you draft a TE.
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Post by costpet on Feb 21, 2017 9:56:02 GMT -5
For someone who only played in a couple of games this year, Jimmy G. had gotten more internet news than anyone else this offseason. Where will he go? Will he go? If something were to happen to Brady, could he keep them winning? Or, if traded, how would Brissett do? Of course, nobody knows. I think Bill is inclined to keep him unless someone makes him an overwhelming offer. If it's too good to refuse, then he might take his chances on a Brissett backup role and hopes Brady stays healthy. Remember, Jimmy G. was a 2nd round pick, which is pretty high for a guy who might not ever play. At the time he was drafted, I don't think Bill thought that Brady would be playing much over 40, so Jimmy was the next man up. Now, things are different, so a different plan has to made. Can Brady really play until 45? He just might, so having Jimmy on the bench makes no sense. That's what's on Bill's mind. We'll know in a couple of months.
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Post by voiceofreason on Feb 21, 2017 10:10:34 GMT -5
For all of you out there who keep saying Brissett is this or that. Unless you go to practice weekly to watch them play how the hell can you say with any certainty that he is not ready to be the backup to Brady. With a full off season and training camp I have no problem with him being the #1 guy off the bench. I mean... you're saying this on a forum in which the members have likely seen none of the players they're talking about play (save for the MLB club). Yeah I know... people are entitled to their opinions and that's all they are. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 21, 2017 11:15:56 GMT -5
Well anyone who scouts players is just offering their opinion and reporters are simply either offering theirs or sharing someone else's. So yea... there's that.
Actually often times these reporters are simply admittedly making stuff up. Like trades that should happen, etc.
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 22, 2017 22:56:56 GMT -5
Pats may use transition tag on Hightower instead of the franchise tag... number is 3m less and wouldn't net them draft picks if he signed elsewhere but they have the right to match any offer... might make sense with the thinking he won't get 15m on open market more like the Collins deal.. then first rd tender Butler and maybe franchise Bennett
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 23, 2017 12:47:07 GMT -5
Pats may use transition tag on Hightower instead of the franchise tag... number is 3m less and wouldn't net them draft picks if he signed elsewhere but they have the right to match any offer... might make sense with the thinking he won't get 15m on open market more like the Collins deal.. then first rd tender Butler and maybe franchise Bennett I think the transition tag makes sense for Hightower. Allows him the freedom of exploring market, without the franchise tag restrictions. At the same time, teams might stay away from him for fear of Pat's matching offer. Hightowers comments make me think that using franchise tag on him, could hurt relationship between player and team. He was very negative about having to play under 5th year option. What's the tag # for a TE? Not sure I would use it on Bennett. Take away his last big payday and it could get ugly. From the teams point of view though, if it's around 8 million, it could be a good deal. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 23, 2017 12:52:40 GMT -5
The tag number for Bennett is like 9.85 million or something around that number.
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Post by costpet on Feb 24, 2017 8:31:53 GMT -5
The off season news is almost as interesting as the in season news. At least we'll know by the end of April. Two months of speculation by every sports writer in the country, plus here.
Sports Illustrated has a reprint of an article when Belichick was in Cleveland. That's when he dumped Kosar and people were upset. Anyway, it's a good read.
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Post by voiceofreason on Feb 25, 2017 10:34:50 GMT -5
I hope the Pats do sign Hightower to a long term deal this offseason but at what price does it make sense. That will be decided by the amount another team is willing to pay to get him to jump ship, obviously. After that has been established the Pats can decide to pay enough to get him to stay or not, obviously again.
Everyone talks about the franchise tag amount and links that to Hightowers value, that pretty much makes sense, I guess. But how much does health have to do with it? Guess who has played more games over the last 3 years than DH?
Gronkowski, does that change your opinion? Will it change the opinion of teams thinking about making him an offer? The Gronk has played 38 games while Hightower is at 37.
I think BB has got to be taking this into play especially when taking his Mayo experience into consideration.
Will he take a deal that staggers the bonus money to insure the Pats have an opportunity to get out of the deal cheap if he cant stay healthy?
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 25, 2017 12:42:29 GMT -5
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 25, 2017 15:57:00 GMT -5
I know it's not a real need but Nick Mangold was resleased by the jets - he's older but still really good... if he would take a cheaper contract to sign here to win I think they should consider it - Andrews isnt bad but he's not very good either and the middle of the line is the weakness and having that guy would make the offense so unstoppable.
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 26, 2017 12:45:56 GMT -5
At least in a couple days the first big deadline comes so we can have some new stuff to speculate on.
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Post by voiceofreason on Feb 28, 2017 7:15:53 GMT -5
Mayock, who I like and think is generally respected, is saying the Browns would have a great draft if they kept their #1 and traded for JG with the #12. That would be a nice return for the Pats. Should that be enough or is BB holding out for more? I believe it is or will be on the table and BB is going to milk it, as he should. Thanks Mike.
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Post by costpet on Feb 28, 2017 7:21:35 GMT -5
I'll bet the Bears make the best offer, including a number 1. Cleveland has the most picks to throw at the Pats, but they won't. They'd rather have a stud DE, which means they will continue to be losers. If you don't have a top QB, you go nowhere in this league.
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Post by texs31 on Feb 28, 2017 7:25:48 GMT -5
I'll bet the Bears make the best offer, including a number 1. Cleveland has the most picks to throw at the Pats, but they won't. They'd rather have a stud DE, which means they will continue to be losers. If you don't have a top QB, you go nowhere in this league. But those aren't mutually exclusive plans. Take a DE #1 and use other picks (maybe #12, maybe a combo of others) to get a QB. |
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Post by voiceofreason on Feb 28, 2017 8:02:52 GMT -5
That's what Mayock suggested, take the best player in the draft Garrett and get JG at #12 would make for a great draft. If daBears come in with their #1 that would be one hell of a coup for the Pats.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 28, 2017 13:06:16 GMT -5
If you get #12 pick, I take it in two seconds. I also wouldn't mind them getting a Mike Williams with that pick. I know it's a long shot that Bill doesn't go D. Thing is an elite #1 receiver would be awesome. Brady finishing out his career with most weapons he's every had.
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 28, 2017 13:24:48 GMT -5
Would you rather the 3rd pick and a 3rd rd from the bears or 12 and a second from Cleveland? Hypothetically
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 28, 2017 13:25:37 GMT -5
If you get #12 pick, I take it in two seconds. I also wouldn't mind them getting a Mike Williams with that pick. I know it's a long shot that Bill doesn't go D. Thing is an elite #1 receiver would be awesome. Brady finishing out his career with most weapons he's every had. I'd take Howard before Williams... call me crazy but I think he fits better in this offense. |
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