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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 10, 2017 11:27:28 GMT -5
These are things that are happening now. If you wish to discuss, do it here.
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Post by giatree12 on Aug 10, 2017 13:25:45 GMT -5
Anyone else see Howe rip Felger a new one on Early Edition last night?
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 13, 2017 14:32:15 GMT -5
www.espn.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4804646/four-patriots-with-momentum-four-who-are-still-in-search-of-itAlso Jacob Hollister had a big first pre-season game. With Gronks health he's the type of player I hope ends up on practice squad at a minimum. Also Wise starting over Elay while a little surprising, makes sense. Wise seems like more of a 3 down type DE. Elay might be better if used mainly as a pass rusher, like Long last year. Lewis playing in the first pre-season game was interesting. Sure seems like he could be fighting for a roster spot. Makes sense, when you already have White and Burkhead.
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 15, 2017 6:28:26 GMT -5
www.espn.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4804646/four-patriots-with-momentum-four-who-are-still-in-search-of-itAlso Jacob Hollister had a big first pre-season game. With Gronks health he's the type of player I hope ends up on practice squad at a minimum. Also Wise starting over Elay while a little surprising, makes sense. Wise seems like more of a 3 down type DE. Elay might be better if used mainly as a pass rusher, like Long last year. Lewis playing in the first pre-season game was interesting. Sure seems like he could be fighting for a roster spot. Makes sense, when you already have White and Burkhead. I can't agree on Lewis. He's way too good when healthy and he money is small. Not that this overly matters but the Patriots have never lost a game he's played in for them. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 15, 2017 6:45:56 GMT -5
Yeah Dion Lewis is the freaking man and he's arguably their main RB. Unless they're trading him, he is not getting cut.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 15, 2017 12:27:57 GMT -5
How is Lewis arguably the main RB?
It seems crystal clear to me that Gillislee is going to replace most of Blounts carries. White is the top 3rd down back. Burkhead is a top special teams player that back ups both and will get a good amount of playing time. Lewis could certainty make the team I just don't think it's a given. Not when he's 4th on depth chart and has a very long injury history.
I just can't overlook Lewis an injury risk playing with all the other rookies and young players fighter to make the team. BB said that he held most players out because of the 3 joint practices. Most likely not wanting to risk injury and over working the players early in camp. So Lewis must have not seen much playing time during those 3 joint practices. If he was a roster lock why risk injury this early? Instead he was playing with undrafted free agents and guys like Bolden who is a looooong shot to make team.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 15, 2017 15:36:21 GMT -5
Gillislee has been dealing with a pulled hammy since OTAs. Seems to be lingering.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 15, 2017 20:13:14 GMT -5
Lewis is making the team and he's going to get a good amount of carries if he isn't traded. You can pretty much write that in permanent ink. The Patriots don't have a main RB, but Lewis will get a huge chunk nonetheless.
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 17, 2017 6:04:07 GMT -5
How is Lewis arguably the main RB? It seems crystal clear to me that Gillislee is going to replace most of Blounts carries. White is the top 3rd down back. Burkhead is a top special teams player that back ups both and will get a good amount of playing time. Lewis could certainty make the team I just don't think it's a given. Not when he's 4th on depth chart and has a very long injury history. I just can't overlook Lewis an injury risk playing with all the other rookies and young players fighter to make the team. BB said that he held most players out because of the 3 joint practices. Most likely not wanting to risk injury and over working the players early in camp. So Lewis must have not seen much playing time during those 3 joint practices. If he was a roster lock why risk injury this early? Instead he was playing with undrafted free agents and guys like Bolden who is a looooong shot to make team. You have reason to raise an early eyebrow at that. At this point last year and much deeper into camp people were saying the same thing about James White too. I'll say what I said then which was you don't cur a guy like Lewis/White because you have them as 4 on your depth chart. He's too good and too valuable at too fragile of a position. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 17, 2017 6:53:41 GMT -5
Jacob Hollister and Austin Carr looked great in the first game. Pre-season games are kind of meaningless especially the first and last ones, but they both looked good and caught difficult passes. Hollister could make the team but Carr has very little chance. I hope he can make it onto the Practice squad.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 17, 2017 13:17:06 GMT -5
At this time last year White was our #2 RB. So I don't know who would have been saying he wasn't a lock to make the Roster. We nedded better depth, but White wasn't like Lewis this year. Our top 3 this year is the best I can remember in recent memory. For years our #4 RB has been basically a ST only player in Bolden. To start last year Foster was the 3rd string RB and hardly played.
For the last two years Lewis was our only RB that could catch and run. So he was a huge part of the team. White development as a pass catching back took away Lewis role as the primary pass catching back. His number of receptions per game went way down in 2017, compared to 2016. Gillislee is a huge upgrade over Blount as a pass catcher and is very good at protection. Burkhead is another player that can run and catch. So that main role that Lewis had seems to be gone. At the very least it's not clear.
I also think for Lewis to make the team as the 4th back, Burkhead has to be a core special teams player. I expect that to happen. Maybe it doesn't if they plan on him having a big role on offense though. We need a lot more information than we currently have.
So when you add it all up I don't know how you can think Lewis is a roster lock. Not with BB and the way he builds teams. I can certainly see him making the team to give us awesome RB depth. I can also see him being traded so we have better depth at a weaker position. BB is all about the best 53 man team. Seeing how good our top 3 RB are, it could make sense to keep more depth at a weaker position like DE or LB. DE looks to a problem. Nink retired, Elay is coming along very slow and Rivers just got injured. If Elay just doesn't have the IQ to play in our D we are in trouble. That's why the rumors about trading Lewis for a DE make a ton of sense to me. I worry more about our top 3-4 DE's than our #4 RB.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 17, 2017 13:26:39 GMT -5
I don't worry about Carr making the practice squad. Hollister is another story. He seems like AG Derby. I can see a bunch of teams claiming a receiving threat like him to be the third TE. Personally I hope he makes the team over a stud special team player. We all know Gronk and Allen get injured a lot. Allen isn't Bennett either. If Gronk goes down we would need another pass catching TE. Maybe we get lucky and he makes it to practice squad.
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 17, 2017 18:32:56 GMT -5
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 17, 2017 18:34:59 GMT -5
By the way I agree with you on Whites development and how it makes Lewis more expendable. And there is a lot more depth which makes them all more expendable but I don't see Lewis getting cut. If anything, the depth makes his return ability more valuable which intern makes him more valuable to the roster. He's likely the teams best kick returner.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 18, 2017 2:04:54 GMT -5
Well ok I was off by 3 days. By Aug. 21 it was clear White was #2. Talk about nitpicking 😁. 4 out of those 6 articles are from like May 2016, one is late July and other is Aug 21. I don't see any much deeper into camp.
Sure well before camp everyone loved Brown. Things changed in camp though, like they always do. Heck the late July one is just a guess. Brown because Pats always turn around old aging players. No inside knowledge.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 18, 2017 3:57:56 GMT -5
There is a chance they could always make a trade at the end of camp. BB always surprises us when it comes to this. As I mention Dion Lewis could get traded. Butler could get traded. Who knows, maybe even Jimmy G. could get traded (very slim chance).
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 18, 2017 8:05:50 GMT -5
Well ok I was off by 3 days. By Aug. 21 it was clear White was #2. Talk about nitpicking 😁. 4 out of those 6 articles are from like May 2016, one is late July and other is Aug 21. I don't see any much deeper into camp. Sure well before camp everyone loved Brown. Things changed in camp though, like they always do. Heck the late July one is just a guess. Brown because Pats always turn around old aging players. No inside knowledge. lol yea fair enough. I am having trouble with coming to terms with the summer being almost over. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 18, 2017 10:10:47 GMT -5
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Post by oilcan73 on Aug 18, 2017 11:16:03 GMT -5
I agree. The Rivers injury along with Ninkovich retiring and Wise's head injury has really thinned out the depth at DE. Sounds like Rivers was coming along nicely in camp too...unfortunate. Perhaps they can trade D. Lewis for a DE or coax Ninkovich out of retirement for one more year. This is really the only position of concern at this point, but it is getting scary. I wonder if Coach B. might shift Hightower now that the have Harris at MLB.
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Post by texs31 on Aug 18, 2017 12:28:48 GMT -5
Some feel that with the flexibility of Hightower, Langhi, Van Noy, McLellin, etc, they are still okay and OT would be more of a concern (Fleming only real "ready" swing tackle with Waddle down).
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Post by oilcan73 on Aug 18, 2017 14:27:54 GMT -5
And with Brady back there OT is very important!
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 18, 2017 15:40:57 GMT -5
Well OT has it top back-up from last year in Flemming. He didn't play that bad. Then you have Garcia and McDermott. They might not be ready now, but give Dante some time to coach them up. By mid-season they should be good depth.
Right now Wise is our 3rd DE. Which means heavy playing time. No Rivers for depth. Flowers, Elay, Nink, Rivers and Wise looked like a strong group. Flowers, Elay, Wise, Grissom and a couple new guys I kmow nothing a about looks weak. Maybe the weakest unit by far. No depth to start the season, nevermind if an injury happens. Also reports say Elay doesn't look good.
Now we do have some LB that can help rush the passer. A bunch of them have played DE. Thing is they were moved off the position because they weren't good at it. So I don't feel great about that. Who knows maybe Bill works his magic.
For me I would want them to bring in one, heck maybe two more solid players. The idea of Grissom playing major minutes scares me to death.
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Post by texs31 on Aug 18, 2017 21:18:37 GMT -5
Of course, I'd feel better if Hightower got off the PUP too. The idea of him being one of the candidates only works if he's available.
FWIW, Matt Chatham proposed the following sub/nickel package (which they spend a ton of time in).
Buck = Hightower
DL = Guy
DL = Branch
DL = Brown
RDE = Flowers
LB = Harris
CB = Gilmore
CB = Butler
S = McCourty
S = Chung
S = Harmon
EDIT: Rowe would be the 3rd CB in those looks. Valentine rotating in with Branch and Brown. Wise and Ealy backing up Flowers. Ealy also backing up Guy. KVN, McClellin and Langhi backing up High. Roberts and Freeney (if he makes the cut) backing up Harris?
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Post by texs31 on Aug 18, 2017 21:52:26 GMT -5
And this is not intended as a rebuttal to the idea of needing more DE depth. A number of those guys are dealing with health or performance issues.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 19, 2017 13:24:49 GMT -5
Does anyone know the breakdown of the amount of time we played 4-3 vs 3-4 last year? Also when we did it on Running vs passing plays?
That just seems like an old school Patriot wanting the team to get back to more 3-4. Over the last couple years it sure seems they have mainly been a 4-3 team, that sprinkles in different looks. Sure they could sprinkle that formation in. I don't see the depth to play it a ton on passing down. Nevermind you are counting on Hightower for a pass rush. I would feel a lot better about that formation with Rivers as a back up for the 3-4 games a year Hightower will miss.
It would seem a 4-3 better suits this teams personal. Flowers and Elay at DE, and Guy and Brown at DT. Then you can pick your spots to blitz Hightower. That's 3 guys that can get after the QB and Guy is inside where he was a beast last year. I could also see them moving Wise inside on some plays to get more of a pass rush. That's the problem though. You could be using your top 3 DE on passing downs, leaving Grissom as your top back-up.
Just my two sense. In reality who knows what they will do. BB has a way of making things work. They do seem to have the big bodies for a 3-4 front. DT looks like a very deep position, with Butler looking like a rookie free agent find. The LB are another story. Right now only Hightower looks like Buck LB. Though Van Noy, McClellin and Langli could play it. Can they get pressure on a regular basis? Can Elay play in space? Can Flowers?
The preason games will be a lot more interesting that's for sure. It's very hard to judge if we have the personal for a modern day 3-4, because it will look nothing like the 3-4 of the early 2000s. Less LBs and a lot more DBs.
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