Kyrie Irving to Boston for Thomas, Crowder, Nets 1st, Zizic

Yes, I was talking about where they would rank after the season, not lottery odds. Projected wins are just guess of the teams average expected wins. They could do better or worse. You can't just assume they will match the projected win total. Few teams do. We can talk lottery odds after the season when we know where they rank.

Actually, KO was a better defender at the 5 than at the 4. The Celtics had probably their best line-up with IT, AB, JC, Al and KO. Those 5 were good on defense (not great, but more than reasonable) and a big part of that is how stout Kelly played down there. He didn't block many shots, but he stood in guys way and held tight. Love is a terrible interior defender and he really can't guard the center. Crowder is very good defending SFs, but he's mediocre to bad guarding PFs. Yeah he can do it, but he really shouldn't. That line-up only works if Lebron is doing the Draymond role, which he honestly can't. The thing about the Warriors is that their small ball works that well because Green is a legendary defender. Lebron is prone to highlight plays but he's at this point in his career overrated on that end. The Warriors would run circles around a Lebron-Crowder-Love frontcourt, and probably the Celtics could too.

I do agree with you that Crowder is a significant upgrade over Jefferson and whatever sad stuff the Cavs had at the wings last season. He should also give some much needed rest to Lebron if Lue isn't a blazing savant imbecile which remains to be seen. He's a very good player and he should be good, but I don't agree with the sentiment that the Cavs now can play some killer small ball. IMO they can't. We'll see though, maybe they will surprise me.

I just don't like the fit for them and I doubt Lue is the coach to X and O Crowder to maximize his talents.

I'm sorry but I need to question this.... first I will say I do agree the Nets could be the worst team in the league next year. However, tanking teams like the Hawks, Bulls and Pacers do not have a lot more good young players or better rosters. At least it's not clear or obvious that they do.

The Hawks have Schroder... Taurean Prince maybe if you want to stretch. Dedmon if you really want to stretch.

Pacers I'll give you but their roster sucks and Turner, Leaf, Sabonis and Anigobu really don't compliment one another and as a group are a poor fit in today's NBA as far as where you want to concentrate your talent. Besides them all they have is Oladipo. It's going to be a bad team.

Bulls roster and young talent is lacking. Dunn is a a talent as the 5th pick but he was a train-wreck. LaVine is clearly the best talent and coming off a major knee injury and his game is almost all explosiveness. Makes him a big question.

All 3 of these teams have zero incentive to win games and the atmosphere will be as such.

The Nets already showed to be scrappy and they likely got better this offseason and there is no incentive to lose games. They have a good coach and good front office there. I think the key to the Nets is Lin's health. They won 13 of their 20 games when he played and he only played in 36 games. 13-23 when he played. Thats a 30 win pace and they would have had the 5th worst record. He was a big difference maker for them.

There is plenty of reason to think this deal makes LeBron more likely to stay and the Cavs more dangerous. The Brooklyn pick is still the best asset any contending team can have. The Cavs now have the ammunition to use it in a trade to get a serious player.

The thing is the Hawks and Pacers haven't acted like tanking teams they added solid vets in Ilysavoa and Dedmon for Hawks.  While Pacers added Collison and Bodanovic.  Those are the type of players tanking teams normally stay away from.

Hawks starters Schroder, Bazemore, Prince/Bembry, IIyasova and Dedmon.  Solid Vets in Belinelli, Muscala, Plumlee.  John Collins was a beast in summer league.  I wanted Bembry and Prince for Celtics I really like those two players, did a ton of research on them. Bembry is going to be a solid player.  Collins could surprise,  he looked really good.  I even really like Dorsey on that team, he fits well.

Pacers starters Collison, Oladipo, Bogdanovic, Young and Turner.  Some solid Vets in Jefferson and Stephenson.  Young guys I like in Leaf, Sabonis, Robinson, Anigbogu.  They look heavy at pf/c, but maybe they play Young at SF, because of the shooting of bigs like Turner, Leaf and Sabonis.  

Bulls still have Lopez, Wade, Portis and now Lavine.   Plus a lot of young players in Payne, Grant, Valentine, Zipser, Dunn and Markkanen.  Wade is the key, if they buy him out they clearly have the worst roster in league.  I really like Valentine, he might surprise people next year.  Markkanen could surprise people,  he has got a perfect skill set for todays NBA.  They just need one of the young PGs to step up.

Nets starters Lin, Russell, Carroll, Booker and Mozgov.  Some Vets in Hollis-Jefferson, Kilpatrick, and Crabbe.  Young guys in Whitehead, LeVert and Allen.  They have talent, but they look very weak in front court.  Like really weak. Can Carroll and Mozgov bounce back ? The two best players are PGs, how will that workout?  I really like Allen, but he is raw.  So the only two centers have major question marks.  Is Hollis-Jefferson the back-up PF?

The Nets look to have more overall talent, but lost Lopez by far the Nets best player.  Lin and Lopez played very well together.  They look to have maybe the weakest front court in the league.  Maybe Allen surprises, he has a world of talent.  Maybe Hollis-Jefferson becomes Thad Young 2.0.  Russell could have a breakout year and I do really like LeVert.  They just have a ton of question marks.  Hence why I think they could be better than expected or worse.  Not a big Crabbe fan, his contract made people think he was better than he was.  He's a lot like Robinson the 3rd on Pacers in my opinion.  A very good 3 point shooter that doesn't do much else.  Carroll might just be washed up.  Mozgov looked like he just didn't care after getting paid. Can Lin have the same impact he did last year without Lopez?  Let's not also forget that the Nets also lost Bodanovic from last years team, he was probably the 3rd best player on team.

The front court being so weak is why I questioned the Nets taking on Carroll and Crabbe, instead of going after a guy like Mason Plumlee as a restricted free agent.  I don't think Denver would have matched a decent offer.  Not after getting Millsap and having to pay Jokic in the near future.

In my opinion KO was a good defensive player, but didn't do much to help protect the rim.  He would try, but he didn't stop players from getting layups all game long against us. Johnson was much better at rim protection than KO.  KO allowed us to space the floor and added offense.   We were one of the worst rim protection teams in league last year.  The easy layups the Hawks and Cavs got in playoffs wasn't even funny.  It drove me mad.

You keep bringing up center with Love.  I just don't get it.  In small ball he will be matched up against a PF.  He did a very good job on Green in finals.  They played a ton with Thompson at Center and it was a disaster.  The Warriors just ran up and down the court like it was an all star game.  Putting Love at center helped that, while playing Jefferson.  Thing was Jefferson is old.  The biggest issue for Cavs against Warriors was clearly matching up against Green, Durant and Iggy.  Crowder allows them to do that.  

Is Lue a good coach?  I don't think so.  That's a very good point.  Maybe he isn't smart enough to do that.  I just think Crowders talent will force his hand.  He will be forced to play him and the Cavs will be better for it.  Love is going to be on the court regardless of position.  He won't offer much rim protection, but neither did Thompson when he was at half court while the Warriors got layups.  Green is a very good defender, but he can't easily guard Love.  The Finals showed that.  The downgrade in rim protection from Thompson to Love is offset by the increase in scoring and the ability to better handle the Warriors in the open court.  It's really a no brainer if Warriors play Durant, Green and Iggy 30 mins a night.  What's  better Thompson, Love and James or Love, James and Crowder?  Love is going to play major minutes in both lineups.  As good of a defender as Green is, he's not much of a rim protector either.  Small ball is all about match ups and scoring.   You sacrifice things like rim protection for more athletic players and better floor spacing.

Another thing that helps that Brooklyn pick be worse than we were hoping for (when it was ours) is how bad the conference is relative to the West.

They could have worse players but a better record than a number of Western Conf bottom dwellers.

So many variables. This, obviously, could go either way. But the overall point is that they no longer have 1 of the pieces that gave them a chance at the perceived "final piece" of a championship core (a young above avg or better big). That bums me out (Gahh, I'm going backwards. I was starting to rationalize this!)

Wow!

According to Woj, Cleveland might void the deal bc of IT's hip.

If IT's hip is truly FUBAR then we're pretty much boned anyway since there's no way Smart should be the starting PG.

Edelman injures knee, Sox get blown out and now this.... not a good morning for Boston sports fans. I want to go back to sleep and wakeup to an alternative reality.

I knew the hip was a real issue before the deal. It's the main reason why I wanted the deal in the first place. There's still a real chance that IT needs surgery on it and will be out for the year.

The deal is centered around the pick. I still don't see this deal not happening. Just more picks might have to be thrown in.