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Kyrie Irving to Boston for Thomas, Crowder, Nets 1st, Zizic
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 26, 2017 7:02:14 GMT -5
I'll be so annoyed if the Celtics get worked here by Cleveland and have to give up more pieces when they already gave up too much for a superstar the Cavs basically needed to trade. I wouldn't care if they throw in any other picks besides the Lakers pick. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 26, 2017 7:16:51 GMT -5
Throw in the Memphis or Clippers pick. Whatever, just make sure you get the player. Both those picks are lottery protected anyways.
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Post by texs31 on Aug 26, 2017 8:39:16 GMT -5
I've figured this out!!
Frustrated by all the talk of other teams being afraid to trade with him, Danny decided to throw this trade.
Now Trader Danny can get back in the game.
Genius!
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Post by Don Caballero on Aug 26, 2017 9:35:19 GMT -5
Cavs clearly trying to bamboozle the Celtics here, if I'm Danny I'm telling the Cavs GM to f*ck right off out of principle. Don't give up anything else, hold your ground.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 26, 2017 10:54:25 GMT -5
I agree 100% with Rip. There is no way Danny didn't share all the Medicals on Thomas. When it comes to the hip I don't see how they would have found anything they didn't already know.
This is also very weird the way this is happening. Trades get called off all the time because of a failed physical. You don't get things like this. If you're the Cavs and IT'S hip needs surgery you call off trade. It seems that simple. You won't risk maybe LeBrons last year and Irving for an extra late first round pick.
I don't give the Cavs anything. It seems to me that the Nets pick was already added because of the risk of IT hip.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 26, 2017 11:18:27 GMT -5
I just want the player. This might be the last superstar that's available the next two years and you're not going to be good with a injured IT.
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Post by Don Caballero on Aug 26, 2017 11:29:10 GMT -5
I agree 100% with Rip. There is no way Danny didn't share all the Medicals on Thomas. When it comes to the hip I don't see how they would have found anything they didn't already know. This is also very weird the way this is happening. Trades get called off all the time because of a failed physical. You don't get things like this. If you're the Cavs and IT'S hip needs surgery you call off trade. It seems that simple. You won't risk maybe LeBrons last year and Irving for an extra late first round pick. I don't give the Cavs anything. It seems to me that the Nets pick was already added because of the risk of IT hip. Agreed, I think this is the Cavs GM going way over his head and trying too hard to "win" this trade. The fact that he's doing it to Danny of all people is telling. I would send them maybe a second rounder and a Delonte jersey. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 26, 2017 12:04:06 GMT -5
I just want the player. This might be the last superstar that's available the next two years and you're not going to be good with a injured IT. I think the hip issue is getting overblown. Sure there is a chance, but it has to be low. The Cavs would never have went this far if they believed there was a big time chance that Thomas doesn't play this year or won't be close to 100%. Just think ahout it from the Cavs view. Just a pure guess but I would say 25% or less. I don't see the Cavs doing this if it was 50% or higher. I want the player, but at what cost ? We already overpaid. I don't see how a late first makes any difference if Thomas hip is an issue. More like they would want Tatum instead of Zizic or something like that. They know they have major leverage with Thomas being so upset, fans burning his jerseys and he does have an injury risk. They are trying to use that to get more. Irving wanted to be traded, so he's not upset. At the same time they won't get a better offer. If they did they would have taken it. So I call there bluff. This just seems like a new GM trying to make a name for himself. I might send some second round picks and pay Delonte West to be there ball boy for a year! That's about it. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 26, 2017 12:48:06 GMT -5
If the difference between completing a deal and not completing a deal is a late Celtics first round pick, then you have to do it.
If the difference between not completing a deal is Tatum instead of Zicic then you obviously don't do the deal.
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Post by maxwellsdemon on Aug 26, 2017 13:50:05 GMT -5
You send them nothing else unless they ave some objective evidence that there was misrepresentation on the part of the Celtics regarding IT's injury. You tell them that if they demand to renegotiate they will have 2 alternatives: replace IT with Smart or the Pilly pick with the Lakers pick because that's the price of bad faith.
Cav's are in a spot now because no one else can match the offer Boston gave them and all they are doing will piss off IT who won't resign with them or their fans if they end up with a lesser package and of course Irving.
In memory of Red On Roundball, call it Ainge On Ass#0!3s.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 26, 2017 14:05:09 GMT -5
If the difference between completing a deal and not completing a deal is a late Celtics first round pick, then you have to do it. If the difference between not completing a deal is Tatum instead of Zicic then you obviously don't do the deal. If that's all they want then they are just playing us. Do you think they walk away over a late first? Reports are claiming the Cavs think Thomas needs surgery. If that's the case a late first does nothing. This is all BS in my opinion. If Thomas really needs surgery they walk away. If not they push to swap out Thomas with Smart, or something like that. They aren't doing that. I could see them wanting let's say Rozier over Zizic as Thomas insurance. Again not what reports say. Just they want more picks. It makes zero sense. If you're the Cavs with LeBron maybe leaving next year, do you trade Irving and take on a guy with a high % chance of not playing next year? Danny should just tell them well give you Smart instead of Thomas. You'll see instantly how much they really still want Thomas. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 26, 2017 14:05:42 GMT -5
The Cavs are in a spot where they have to trade Irving. There will be a resolution. The Celtics have a ton of picks. I don't see why people are outraged if they have to give up a extra first round pick or something to make it seem like it was a attempt at good faith.
You have to get the player or the Celtics could be in a very bad position. You might not even be a playoff team in the terrible Eastern conference if you have a injured IT.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 26, 2017 14:21:49 GMT -5
If the difference between completing a deal and not completing a deal is a late Celtics first round pick, then you have to do it. If the difference between not completing a deal is Tatum instead of Zicic then you obviously don't do the deal. If that's all they want then they are just playing us. Do you think they walk away over a late first? I don't think the Cavs are walking away but maybe another team comes in with a better offer last second. Maybe someone gets stupid and offers something better because they see that there's a clear offer that's pretty good on the table already. The Celtics can't lose this opportunity. I'm not trading any other player though, the Celtics need their players because they are trading away a ton of depth already in this deal. Just give them a extra first round pick or two, whatever. Make it seem like they "won" the deal. I don't care. You're getting the best player in the deal. You're by default winning the trade imo. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 26, 2017 14:31:08 GMT -5
The reason is simple I don't believe Ainge didn't act in good faith. I believe the Cavs knew everything the Celtics did. No way Danny tries to pull a fast one with Thomas. He knew they would find out everything in a physical and how bad this would be if Thomas had to come back to Boston. He's the face of the franchise.
Not a playoff team? Are you kidding? Even last year they would have been a playoff team.
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Post by texs31 on Aug 26, 2017 14:36:28 GMT -5
Couple of thoughts:
- You agree to a trade based on exchange of current medical records. It's finalized after physicals. Those are 2 different things. What was known or not at time of agreement and what is known after physicals is different.
- Cleveland has the leverage. If the trade falls apart, they have Irving and 19 other teams (reports are that 20 teams were engaged) to talk to. No ill will from player (or any more than after any failed trade) since this started from him.
- A failed trade not as terrible as people making out. Get the BRK pick back. Crowder will have a big market. Zizic nice prospect. What about Isaiah? Obviously the most akward component. But if Danny could sign IT for short years closer to 20Mn, wold he do it? Now the hip is out there and didn't come from Cs. Could help Danny's leverage in negotiations. Bad feelings from IT? He might have to get over it the way this might play out.
- That being said, the BRK pick was always the get for Cleveland. They could do better in player(s) for this year (than an injured IT) but is anyone offering an asset more valuable than that BRK pick? A rational person would say no. Gilbert not necessarily rational.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 26, 2017 14:42:10 GMT -5
The reason is simple I don't believe Ainge didn't act in good faith. I believe the Cavs knew everything the Celtics did. No way Danny tries to pull a fast one with Thomas. He knew they would find out everything in a physical and how bad this would be if Thomas had to come back to Boston. He's the face of the franchise. Not a playoff team? Are you kidding? Even last year they would have been a playoff team. Yes without IT they aren't a playoff team this past year especially. I have no doubt about that. Danny has won almost all of his trades at the NBA level. The Crowder deal, the IT deal, the Brooklyn trade, the Garnett deal. He's usually making teams look bad in trades in a year or two after. There is a huge chance that Danny disclosed his injuries to some extent but maybe he didn't tell them how serious it is. The Cavs want to trade Irving. I don't see what you're seeing. IT probably needs surgery. That is the hangup. The deal is centered around the Brooklyn pick so there's no reason to not complete this thing. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 26, 2017 16:09:58 GMT -5
We would have had to lost 12 wins last year to not make playoffs. Thomas was a 12.5 win share player. Unless you think the players taking his minutes couldn't give a couple win shares we would make playoffs. Not only did we have a very good reserve players like Smart and Rozier. If no Thomas Danny would have most likely added another player.
Pedro there is no huge chance Danny didn't fully disclose Thomas injury. It's like Texas said, they got all his medical records and information from us. The physical might have showed Thomas recovery was behind were they thought he would be. Hence he might miss games to start year while recovering or he will miss more games than they thought at first.
The hangup isn't that Thomas needs surgery. That would kill the deal. It makes no sense for the Cavs to trade Irving this year and not get back a pg that can help them this year.
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Aug 26, 2017 17:38:01 GMT -5
I thought the Celtcs gave up too much already in the trade. Anything more than a James Young/Jordan Mickey type player is Ainge acting like Theon Greyjoy.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 26, 2017 17:49:47 GMT -5
The hangup isn't that Thomas needs surgery. That would kill the deal. It makes no sense for the Cavs to trade Irving this year and not get back a pg that can help them this year. The Cavs signed Derick Rose. They could get by. LeBron is the ball dominant point forward anyways. It also could be a situation where the Cavs doctors recommend surgery and the Celtics doctors don't. There's just no way of knowing unless you were in the room where the physical was taking place. I don't think having a IT out for the year kills the deal. The deal is centered around this pick. |
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Post by tizzle on Aug 26, 2017 18:38:09 GMT -5
Come on, Danny. Don't be suckered. You already gave up too much, don't give up any more.
I could see maybe giving up Brown and Rozier instead of IT, but then no BKN pick. Maybe the Memphis pick instead.
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Post by sarasoxer on Aug 26, 2017 18:57:12 GMT -5
Mexican standoff.
If deal fails, Celts and Cavs have disgruntled players returning....Big incentive to get it done although more so for C's as Irving will be gone somewhere. Seller's market with Irving... Celtics want the emerging superstar... advantage Cavs particularly as other teams, getting a second chance, may up their ante.
OTOH, C's must have shared medicals. So is this a shakedown or buyers remorse? Cavs need to share their medical findings. Who blinks?
If no deal, Isaiah stays and hopefully recovers physically and emotionally. Tough tho as his heart is his best asset.
Crowder has to go and will be traded for a potential late 1st rounder if only to relieve logjam.
Zizic will get Zeller minutes to rebound and develop.
I don't yet accept that the Nets, even in the east, will be greatly improved so....on balance, I am ambivalent.
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Post by texs31 on Aug 26, 2017 19:41:20 GMT -5
I'm not a doctor but I would think a very plausible scenario is as follows:
1. Cleveland gets IT with a focus on one last run with he and LJ.
2. The medicals (which may be out dated by now) that the Cs have don't indicate anything that would prevent that (may suggest a long term issue but Cavs don't care bc they just want 1 yr before blowing it up when LJ leaves).
3. An in person physical suggests that surgery IS needed so they aren't getting that asset that helps them next year.
And THAT is the issue.
Not saying it's the case but it would seem a plausible thing related to the difference between meds and a physical.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 26, 2017 20:06:30 GMT -5
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 26, 2017 20:14:34 GMT -5
The hangup isn't that Thomas needs surgery. That would kill the deal. It makes no sense for the Cavs to trade Irving this year and not get back a pg that can help them this year. The Cavs signed Derick Rose. They could get by. LeBron is the ball dominant point forward anyways. It also could be a situation where the Cavs doctors recommend surgery and the Celtics doctors don't. There's just no way of knowing unless you were in the room where the physical was taking place. I don't think having a IT out for the year kills the deal. The deal is centered around this pick. Cavs want Thomas. They need his scoring more than his point guard skills. Cleveland has no chance at a title with Rose only. Read the current article. It's about rehab time. They want and need Thomas because of James and his contract. The deal is centered around Thomas and Crowder and the pick. It's all about being good this year and a future asset. Not just a future asset. |
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Post by Don Caballero on Aug 26, 2017 22:56:27 GMT -5
You know, the more I think about this, the more I think that Danny should really tell that unprofessional a**hole they got GMing for the Cavs to go f*ck himself and walk away from this. I really *really* think he's trying to pull a fast one.
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