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2018 Boston Celtics offseason
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 22, 2018 11:45:42 GMT -5
Few notes after looking at the comments;
Robert Williams wasn't my guy. After Divincenzo and Okogie went off the board, my guys were gone. I loved those two players. Given where I had Williams ranked he just made sense. At 14 I would have most likely taken one of those two guards, but at 27 he's a steal. Best player available meets huge need.
If no Williams I might have traded down if the Celtics didn't like Spellman. I just didn't see much difference in Evans, Thomas, Brown, Melton and even Alkins who went undrafted. I liked the group as future defenders, I just didn't see the next Rozier after Okogie went off the board. It was more like a bunch of Semi type players.
While Robert Williams and Jordan Bell are similar, they are also very different. Bell was like Smart, he could do everything but basically shoot and score besides dunks and put backs. Yet he was a very polished player, did the little things, was a great passer, and was going to be very good defensively from day one. Williams is DeAndre Jordan, as he's raw, but has upside Bell can never have. Williams is just a massive, well built, incredible athlete. He could be a future all-star even if he never learns to shoot. He seems better built for todays NBA than Jordan frankly, because he's smaller he moves better which allows him to guard people in space. The guy would guard shooters and block 3 point shots in College. The guy has the potential to guard guys like Embiid, LeBron, Durant, Greek Freak, and guys like Simmons. I just think its going to take some time for him to become that player.
He played out of position last year, playing PF. Which is why you saw him guarding a bunch of guys on the perimeter. He was guarding those SF that play PF in College all year and was very good. He has elite defensive boxscore numbers that almost match Bamba and for his career were the 22nd best ever in College Basketball in its history. He was a 59% FT shooter his freshmen year and 47.1% last year. So he needs to get back to his freshmen year and hopefully build on that. That's probably his biggest weakness right now. You can live with a guy like him around 60%, but below 50% is going to really limit him.
As Jay Bilas said about Ayton it seems we always question big mens motor more than any other position. Kinda hard to question Aytons motor when he had the second most double doubles for a freshmen big ever, yet people did. I feel the same way about Williams. I don't question he plays hard, not sure how you see that watching the tape. Its because he's very raw, didn't always know what to do. A large part of that was him playing out of position. Him playing PF when he can't shoot and another big is clogging the middle is hard. I do question if he has his head on straight. I can see some Rondo in him. Example he had an 11am confrence call today and it was canceled because the team can't reach him. So guys like Horford, Smart, Baynes will need to take him under there wing like KG did with Rondo. We have the perfect team and culture for him, so lets hope he realizes that he might be the luckiest guy in the draft. Its a perfect fit for him to learn and grow the right way. Stevens and the Celtics can make him one of the leagues best defensive centers and a ton of money. He just needs to buy in.
So I love the pick, not because he's my guy, because its crazy good value. His upside is worth the risk and the rest of the players were so-so in my book. We have a ton of future picks still, we could afford to gamble on Williams. Its what teams like the Celtics should do when you have a stacked team, swing for the fences. Outside of Porter going 14, Williams is the second best value pick in the draft.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 22, 2018 12:00:36 GMT -5
I’m really worried about Philly at that 10th pick. I really hope they F is up. Also, I think Lonnie Walker is going to be a guy drafted lower that when they do the redraft years from he’s a top 7 pick and maybe even top 3/4. Yea I’m ridiculously high on him. I thought Bridges was perfect for them. A very smart team player, that was going to be a very good 3 and D guy. He's a very good shooter, something they need with Simmons. To trade him for Zhaire Smith and a Heat 2021 pick is crazy. The Heat are rarely bad and won't tank without owning there pick. I just don't get it, Smith looks like a Tony Allen type player to me. I don't get passing on Bridges and Porter for him. Heck if they wanted to trade down take Divincenzo, that would have made a ton of sense because they likely lose Reddick. So I think they really messed up. Seems like they were trying to pull a Danny, but they aren't Danny. They passed on a bunch of great fits and talent to draft a guy thats a great athlete, but is a hesitant shooter, with a funky release. Along with a future pick that could be a mid first rounder in a draft that might not be as deep as this one. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 22, 2018 12:08:18 GMT -5
Non-Celtics note here: The Suns absolutely nailed this draft. They got Ayton obviously and I’m not his biggest fan but the dude is good. Then they made that trade and got Mikal Bridges who adds shooting and defense and a level of maturity/ work ethos to a young team and they topped it off with Elie Okobo. My god this team will be exciting: Pg: Knight/Okobo Sg: Booker 3/4: Jackson/Bridges C: Ayton I really like there draft. They took very good players that fit needs and were rated as very good picks. I just question taking Bridges over Porter. Ayton, Porter and Okobo would have been epic. Given they got Ayton, I just thought they could take the risk with Porter. Looking at this draft I wonder if the Cavs, Knicks, Hornets, Clippers, Sixers, and Suns might all regret not taking a chance on Porter. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 22, 2018 12:21:42 GMT -5
Talk about depth, Rawle Alkins, Trevon Duval, Allonzo Trier, Kenrich Williams, Bonzier Colson, Billy Preston and Brandon McCoy all went undrafted. I'd take all of them over Bird and Allen for the 2 way contracts. Would go crazy if we could add even one of these guys. Duval never should have left Duke. He shouldn't have gone to Duke. That's the issue with guys that want to be one and done type players. You go to these big time programs and they have so much talent your just another player, not the man. Duval and Trent Jr. were both top 10 players and one went mid second round, the other undrafted. Either player goes to my school UMass and they would have been the man. Things would have been different, as Duval would have been the go to scorer, not just a passer like at Duke. He's not that type of guy yet, he wasn't horrible, but that was never going to make him look good. Still can't believe an athlete like him went undrafted. Would love either Duval or Alkins to be a 2 way contract player. Those two guys have big time defensive upside and could add depth in case Smart or Rozier leave at some point. Alkins was getting second workouts late in the process and buzz that he could go in the 20s. Just shows how deep this draft was. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 22, 2018 13:46:55 GMT -5
Few notes after looking at the comments; Robert Williams wasn't my guy. After Divincenzo and Okogie went off the board, my guys were gone. I loved those two players. Given where I had Williams ranked he just made sense. At 14 I would have most likely taken one of those two guards, but at 27 he's a steal. Best player available meets huge need. If no Williams I might have traded down if the Celtics didn't like Spellman. I just didn't see much difference in Evans, Thomas, Brown, Melton and even Alkins who went undrafted. I liked the group as future defenders, I just didn't see the next Rozier after Okogie went off the board. It was more like a bunch of Semi type players. While Robert Williams and Jordan Bell are similar, they are also very different. Bell was like Smart, he could do everything but basically shoot and score besides dunks and put backs. Yet he was a very polished player, did the little things, was a great passer, and was going to be very good defensively from day one. Williams is DeAndre Jordan, as he's raw, but has upside Bell can never have. Williams is just a massive, well built, incredible athlete. He could be a future all-star even if he never learns to shoot. He seems better built for todays NBA than Jordan frankly, because he's smaller he moves better which allows him to guard people in space. The guy would guard shooters and block 3 point shots in College. The guy has the potential to guard guys like Embiid, LeBron, Durant, Greek Freak, and guys like Simmons. I just think its going to take some time for him to become that player. He played out of position last year, playing PF. Which is why you saw him guarding a bunch of guys on the perimeter. He was guarding those SF that play PF in College all year and was very good. He has elite defensive boxscore numbers that almost match Bamba and for his career were the 22nd best ever in College Basketball in its history. He was a 59% FT shooter his freshmen year and 47.1% last year. So he needs to get back to his freshmen year and hopefully build on that. That's probably his biggest weakness right now. You can live with a guy like him around 60%, but below 50% is going to really limit him. As Jay Bilas said about Ayton it seems we always question big mens motor more than any other position. Kinda hard to question Aytons motor when he had the second most double doubles for a freshmen big ever, yet people did. I feel the same way about Williams. I don't question he plays hard, not sure how you see that watching the tape. Its because he's very raw, didn't always know what to do. A large part of that was him playing out of position. Him playing PF when he can't shoot and another big is clogging the middle is hard. I do question if he has his head on straight. I can see some Rondo in him. Example he had an 11am confrence call today and it was canceled because the team can't reach him. So guys like Horford, Smart, Baynes will need to take him under there wing like KG did with Rondo. We have the perfect team and culture for him, so lets hope he realizes that he might be the luckiest guy in the draft. Its a perfect fit for him to learn and grow the right way. Stevens and the Celtics can make him one of the leagues best defensive centers and a ton of money. He just needs to buy in. So I love the pick, not because he's my guy, because its crazy good value. His upside is worth the risk and the rest of the players were so-so in my book. We have a ton of future picks still, we could afford to gamble on Williams. Its what teams like the Celtics should do when you have a stacked team, swing for the fences. Outside of Porter going 14, Williams is the second best value pick in the draft. Supposedly missing the call was because he didn’t know about the one hour time difference. I’m not going to kill the kid for that but it’s a concern. It’s quite possible he fell due to a combo of minor concerns and his position not being valued in the NBA. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 22, 2018 14:15:25 GMT -5
Yea its not really a big deal, said he overslept. I think you're 100% right it was a bunch of little things. Teams over thinking it because he's a one dimensional player. Its why players normally don't go back to school if there seen as a lottery pick. If you don't improve the way teams expect it can kill your value. We saw the samething with Rabb last year. Went from likely lottery pick to second round pick. Good for us!
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Post by hongkyongnae on Jun 22, 2018 14:49:20 GMT -5
Hopefully this is only a small thing for Williams. But there may also be context. Williams did:
* Not attend the combine though he was supposed to be there but was didn't show.
* No-show at the draft (only first rounder that wasn't there?)
* Missed a team phone call the night of the draft as well as the conference call with the team that drafted him.
He was also suspended for 2 games by his team, and only started 40 of the 61 games he played. It just isn't a great look for a young kid.
But this may well be straining at gnats and he will be fine once Stephens tutors him.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 22, 2018 15:51:27 GMT -5
Hopefully this is only a small thing for Williams. But there may also be context. Williams did: * Not attend the combine though he was supposed to be there but was didn't show. * No-show at the draft (only first rounder that wasn't there?) * Missed a team phone call the night of the draft as well as the conference call with the team that drafted him. He was also suspended for 2 games by his team, and only started 40 of the 61 games he played. It just isn't a great look for a young kid. But this may well be straining at gnats and he will be fine once Stephens tutors him. You have a few details wrong. He declined an invite to the combine, he wasn't a no show. Which players do, Ayton also declined for example. He was hardly the only first rounder not there. 19 guys in green room, plus Wagner was in the stands, can't remember if other guys were, but I certainly know they all weren't in the stands. Sure he was the higgest rated guy not there, he turned down the invite to be with family and friends at a draft party at buffalo wild wings per reports. Maybe a little red flag, but not really in my book. You see guys do that all the time. The missed call is one, but not really a big deal. The early reports made it sound worse than it was really. He messed up the time and overslept after the biggest night of his life. He wasn't unreachable for more than an hour. That suspension is a worry for sure. What was it for? As for the games starting I need more info to know if that is even a worry. For example he didn't start after the suspension. Then started 18 of the last 19 games. With the last game being the last game of the season at home before confrence tourney. Was it senior night? Was it a punishment? If so that could be big. Have you heard anything or you just going off his stats? I'm asking because a guy like Donte Divicenzo only started 12 out of 85 games and I think he's going to be really good. The whole him learning to play PF might explain a lot or maybe there were issues. nesn.com/2018/06/nba-rumors-heres-why-robert-williams-slipped-to-celtics-in-nba-draft/Seems he dropped because teams couldn't get medical records and worried about his knee. Got a new agent two weeks ago, which frankly he needed if teams weren't getting medical data. Celtics did a ton of research on him and he's well liked, which is huge. Maybe the best news yet. Celtics are great at drafting and this draft shows why. They did there homework on a guy they really thought they had no chance at. Then while other teams are saying they can't get medical data on him, the Celtics get his Mecicals at like pick 18 and go over them thinking he might drop to them. Couldn't have been that hard to get the information it seems. Just a bunch of teams not fully prepared for a guy they didn't think would be there. It just shows why Ainge is one of the best in the business. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 22, 2018 17:18:37 GMT -5
I love how people were surprised Ainge was so active last night and leading up to the draft... what’s a GM supposed to do? My god if you aren’t active exploring every option you’re a bum of a GM. Even if it’s just long shot crap. Like last night they tried hard getting up to Sacramento or Atlanta’s pick but wouldn’t include Brown or Tatum so it wouldn’t work. But why wouldn’t you try to sell Rozier and your picks to get up there and work every angle possible to make that happen?
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 22, 2018 17:27:39 GMT -5
A lot of bad GMs in the NBA. RJP any reports on who the target was? I've seen Bamba or Jackson, yet no one seems to know for sure which one it was.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 22, 2018 17:35:40 GMT -5
A lot of bad GMs in the NBA. RJP any reports on who the target was? I've seen Bamba or Jackson, yet no one seems to know for sure which one it was. Jimmy Stewart who’s always in the know somehow says it was Doncic. Take that for what it’s worth but I’ve stopped ignoring him at this point. |
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Post by GyIantosca on Jun 22, 2018 17:46:33 GMT -5
I never was so excited for a late round pick as I was last night. I saw that kid keep dropping. Porter too going 14. Nice move by Ainge. Perfect.
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Post by sarasoxer on Jun 23, 2018 6:10:08 GMT -5
Jason Tatum would not have overslept.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 23, 2018 7:06:47 GMT -5
As long as he isn't missing practices or dogging games, I could live with anything else Williams brings.
I have a feeling that the dogging part is going to be a issue at times though. Kind of comes with the territory with a pick that drops so far to you.
I got to give Danny Ainge credit though, if there's one GM who's willing to overlook that kind of stuff, it's him. Ainge loves talent and will do anything to acquire the best players available.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 23, 2018 7:59:37 GMT -5
As long as he isn't missing practices or dogging games, I could live with anything else Williams brings. I have a feeling that the dogging part is going to be a issue at times though. Kind of comes with the territory with a pick that drops so far to you. I got to give Danny Ainge credit though, if there's one GM who's willing to overlook that kind of stuff, it's him. Ainge loves talent and will do anything to acquire the best players available. I don’t know if I agree with this. I know everyone says this stuff about him but let’s look at some of the subtle evidence that says otherwise. I have no doubt there are some off the court issues; flakiness (at the least), immaturity and bad decision making surrounding Williams. I do doubt the questions about his on court motor and him dogging it on teammates. The guy has a pro-ready body. That takes hard work and dedication in the gym. The guy dives on the floor for loose balls. 6’10 bigs don’t do that every day unless they are hard wired to compete. The first thing he talks about is defense and right away he’s talking about rotations and switches, that’s a guy who gets the team aspect of things. He was a lottery pick if he came out last year like people thought he should. When asked why he returned he talked about was the team “If we make it far in the tournament, maybe some people (teammates) will have a chance to leave who wouldn’t have had the chance to..”. He also talked about his legacy at Texas A&M and wanting to leave the program as a winner and it in a better spot than when he came. So here’s the good news. This is a guy who at least gets it and he’s going to be playing for a coach who will not allow him to turn it off and play when he feels like it and he will be surrounded by a team full of players who already bought in and will be working hard therefore he really won’t be able to not do the same. Or he will not be here and be shipped to the G league. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 23, 2018 8:03:36 GMT -5
I wanted to separate this out:
Ainge has drafted a lot of players with high quality character lately. He was burned on the lazy player in the past and he’s always talking about guys with drive and character. This team is seemingly built on guys like that. Horford, Hayward, Tatum and Brown all fit that mold. Smart has his off court maturity issues but they don’t have anything to do with being a good teammate, motivation or working hard and selflessly. Rozier is a hard worker and great teammate (after the playoffs immediately said it’s Kyrie’s team and he can’t wait to battle in practices and make him and the team better). Even Kyrie is an odd duck but he’s a great teammate for this group and works hard and is selfless with the group. Heck, even Morris is a team first guy and that surprised me. We will see if that changes this year if he’s still here and his PT is way lower, but I suspect he will be fine for a year as they chase a ring.
Baynes - Theis as well... even tho it’s easier for them with their defined roles
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Post by sarasoxer on Jun 23, 2018 9:08:49 GMT -5
I wanted to separate this out: Ainge has drafted a lot of players with high quality character lately. He was burned on the lazy player in the past and he’s always talking about guys with drive and character. This team is seemingly built on guys like that. Horford, Hayward, Tatum and Brown all fit that mold. Smart has his off court maturity issues but they don’t have anything to do with being a good teammate, motivation or working hard and selflessly. Rozier is a hard worker and great teammate (after the playoffs immediately said it’s Kyrie’s team and he can’t wait to battle in practices and make him and the team better). Even Kyrie is an odd duck but he’s a great teammate for this group and works hard and is selfless with the group. Heck, even Morris is a team first guy and that surprised me. We will see if that changes this year if he’s still here and his PT is way lower, but I suspect he will be fine for a year as they chase a ring. Baynes - Theis as well... even tho it’s easier for them with their defined roles Yes...spot on. There is a very strong emphasis on character....and all great Celtic teams have had that element. That is what attracted me in the first place and makes me proud to be a fan. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 23, 2018 9:21:54 GMT -5
This is a bleacher report write up on Bagley. I’m a huge Duke fan and love the guy because of that. However, this is kind of what I said earlier. I think the Celtics made out by him being drafted by Sacramento (assuming they don’t end up first overall then we got screwed). Wendell Carter is going to be a better pro than Bagley. Bagley destroyed the NCAA with his athleticism, but his skills are lacking big time and he can’t stretch the floor (yet) and they are right about his D being a liability. If he plays big minutes and isn’t always in foul trouble, then his numbers will look nice, maybe even double double territory, but they will be empty stats.
Any time you can grab an offense-only big man with dubious floor-stretching ability at an already crowded position, you've got to go for it, right?
That seems to have been the Sacramento Kings' approach, which is how Marvin Bagley III wound up as the second overall pick.
Bagley is a supreme athlete who'll wreak havoc on the offensive glass, run the floor and maybe prove his small-sample three-point shooting at Duke wasn't a complete aberration. But in a league that demands outside excellence, defensive versatility and guard skill from its frontcourt players, Bagley feels like an anachronistic selection. Ten years ago, this move would have made more sense.
In 2018, Bagley is a massive defensive liability who'll be targeted relentlessly by opponents.
It's possible Sacramento went this direction because Bagley agreed to work out for them, while Doncic and others opted not to. But this was a reach, one that makes even less sense in light of the Kings' glut of non-spacing bigs, a list that already includes Willie Cauley-Stein, Harry Giles, Skal Labissiere and Kosta Koufos. You don't draft for positional need this high in the proceedings, but Doncic would have filled a clear void on the wing.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 23, 2018 12:33:44 GMT -5
That earlier report that I posted was the telling one. The coaches, trainers, teammates, and friends all liked him. So right off the bat he's not Rondo, which is huge. Rondo rubbed everyone the wrong way and was a full-time job keeping him in check. Remember Perkins was his best friend and did a great job. When we traded him things just got worse.
That suspension also included two other players, one who was drunk while driving. They didn't give out details, but I think a fair guess is the group was drinking while underage. Typical college stuff, nothing more untill I hear otherwise.
I just don't get the motor issues or dogging it stuff. You don't see that on film. The prime example of that is Fab Melo. You clearly saw the issues with him on the court and in the stat sheets. I just don't see that with Williams. I think the issues are more off the court stuff. Even then I question reports like he's not in shape. How? Look at the guy, how is that not in shape? Melo, Sullinger, and Yabu are guys that weren't in shape, Williams already has an NBA body.
Frankly I think a lot of this is bad advice from his former agent, that seemed to handle the process horribly. A good agent would have made him go to combine. I wouldn't have had him play, but do everything else. He would have lit up the athletic testing part, killed the measurement part, and all teams would have his medicals. The way his former agent handled it, made it seem like something was up. Like maybe they were hiding something. When it seems he skipped the combine because none of his teammates were invited. Which is great he's a good teammate, but if he had Bill Duffy to start with things would have been different. It just gave people reason to doubt him. We should be glad though, because he doesn't drop unless his agent acts like a moron.
One report nailed it, he just needs structure. Well welcome to the Celtics. The more I read about him the less I worry. It's kinda the problem with College Basketball the longer you stay, the more questions and issues teams seem to find. When I think the motor issues and dogging it are all because he didn't improve the way experts expected in his second year. The thing is they played him at PF and out on the perimeter because they had another very good center that was not athletic. He had to play center, where Williams athletically could play PF. Just with his skills he wasn't going to get more points and rebounds playing in that role. At the same time that extra experience is going to be huge for him in the NBA. Unlike most guys like him, we know day one he can switch onto smaller quicker players and shut them down.
If you want to worry, I'd focuss on his skills. FT shooting, learning the defensive plays, and learning how to screen and go to the hole.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 23, 2018 12:46:09 GMT -5
I think Williams would hope the Celtics bring back Smart. There's no one better on this team at the lob pass than Smart. They could connect dozens of times this season on the lob play if they teamed up on the second unit. I just had to comment on this because I think its so false. No one on the team created more turnovers on lob passes than Smart. How many lob passes did he throw out of bounds in the playoffs? Not that Smart can't do it, I just think Irving, Rozier and Smart are all about equal at doing it. Still remember Rozier trying to get it into Horford, but it was well guarded. So he gives it to Smart who throws a crazy bad lob into Horford that gets picked off. Its the part of Smarts game that drives me crazy. He can't create well, so he tries riskier passes to make an impact. He can sometimes pull it off, but he crestes a lot of turnovers. I'd pick Irving, Rozier, and then Smart if I wanted to list the best guys at the pick and role. Irving and Rozier can just create more, drawing in the D and getting guys open. |
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Post by jmei on Jun 23, 2018 13:15:28 GMT -5
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 23, 2018 13:41:12 GMT -5
www.nba.com/draft/2018/prospects/marvin_bagley_iii#/I think Bagley has a lot of work to do on D, at the sametime RJP I think you and that author are blowing it way out of proportion. He ranked in the 94th percent in one on one D in College. He's a highly athletic player. Sure he'll struggle against stronger player at first. He's not going to be a Monroe or a Korver type either. In the new NBA there aren't a ton of huge bang down low PFs. Guys like Horford, Randall, Randolph types and Alridge will hurt him his rookie year. At the same time the new small ball fours aren't going to hurt him at all. Teams go small and he can play center. Frankly I think that guy is an idiot. How is the Kings PF position crowded? He can't be talking about a dirt old Randolph can he? Skal a decent young player, but he's a bench guy. Giles is going to be a center in the NBA. The guys a moron because you take best player available. He's the guy that would have ripped the Tatum pick because of fit. Almost everyone had Bagley as a top three player. Sure I have some questions about him, but that's true of almost every player in the draft. I can post some crazy negative opinions about your binkie Carter. He seems to have a lot more question marks than Bagley. I get it you want a top 5 pick from the Kings. I just don't see how you think he makes them worse defensively. They were dreadful last year. His rebounding alone probaly improves there D. The more head scratching move in my opinion was trading the 37th pick for two second picks. They needed a SF and there were a bunch of interesting guys there. You want to guage the Kings pick wait till after free agency. There one minor trade away from having max cap space. The owners want to win, they won't tank. Jabari Parker would be my target if I was them. I hate to be negative but in todays NBA with Tanking its hard to be that bad unless your team tanks. Nevermind after they add an amazing talent like Bagley. I just don't see how he's going to be anywhere close to a net negative for that team. Add in the other young players getting better and your looking most likely at a pick in the 6-10 range. For the first time in a while I'm starting to see a nice core group of young players on the Kings. They have back ups like Skal and Mason, legit NBA player depth. So just hope they mess up free agency and bring in some old as dirt players like last year.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 23, 2018 15:33:44 GMT -5
I think Williams would hope the Celtics bring back Smart. There's no one better on this team at the lob pass than Smart. They could connect dozens of times this season on the lob play if they teamed up on the second unit. I just had to comment on this because I think its so false. No one on the team created more turnovers on lob passes than Smart. How many lob passes did he throw out of bounds in the playoffs? Not that Smart can't do it, I just think Irving, Rozier and Smart are all about equal at doing it. Still remember Rozier trying to get it into Horford, but it was well guarded. So he gives it to Smart who throws a crazy bad lob into Horford that gets picked off. Its the part of Smarts game that drives me crazy. He can't create well, so he tries riskier passes to make an impact. He can sometimes pull it off, but he crestes a lot of turnovers. I'd pick Irving, Rozier, and then Smart if I wanted to list the best guys at the pick and role. Irving and Rozier can just create more, drawing in the D and getting guys open. See Jmie's answer. He is really good at the lob pass (pick and roll). Probably better than Rozier and might be better than even Irving. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 23, 2018 15:35:25 GMT -5
As long as he isn't missing practices or dogging games, I could live with anything else Williams brings. I have a feeling that the dogging part is going to be a issue at times though. Kind of comes with the territory with a pick that drops so far to you. I got to give Danny Ainge credit though, if there's one GM who's willing to overlook that kind of stuff, it's him. Ainge loves talent and will do anything to acquire the best players available. I don’t know if I agree with this. I know everyone says this stuff about him but let’s look at some of the subtle evidence that says otherwise. I have no doubt there are some off the court issues; flakiness (at the least), immaturity and bad decision making surrounding Williams. I do doubt the questions about his on court motor and him dogging it on teammates. The guy has a pro-ready body. That takes hard work and dedication in the gym. The guy dives on the floor for loose balls. 6’10 bigs don’t do that every day unless they are hard wired to compete. The first thing he talks about is defense and right away he’s talking about rotations and switches, that’s a guy who gets the team aspect of things. He was a lottery pick if he came out last year like people thought he should. When asked why he returned he talked about was the team “If we make it far in the tournament, maybe some people (teammates) will have a chance to leave who wouldn’t have had the chance to..”. He also talked about his legacy at Texas A&M and wanting to leave the program as a winner and it in a better spot than when he came. So here’s the good news. This is a guy who at least gets it and he’s going to be playing for a coach who will not allow him to turn it off and play when he feels like it and he will be surrounded by a team full of players who already bought in and will be working hard therefore he really won’t be able to not do the same. Or he will not be here and be shipped to the G league. Hey, I hope you're right RJP. I wish nothing but the best for this kid, but he fell for some strange reason and that might be one of them. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 23, 2018 15:58:53 GMT -5
www.nba.com/draft/2018/prospects/marvin_bagley_iii#/I think Bagley has a lot of work to do on D, at the sametime RJP I think you and that author are blowing it way out of proportion. He ranked in the 94th percent in one on one D in College. He's a highly athletic player. Sure he'll struggle against stronger player at first. He's not going to be a Monroe or a Korver type either. In the new NBA there aren't a ton of huge bang down low PFs. Guys like Horford, Randall, Randolph types and Alridge will hurt him his rookie year. At the same time the new small ball fours aren't going to hurt him at all. Teams go small and he can play center. Frankly I think that guy is an idiot. How is the Kings PF position crowded? He can't be talking about a dirt old Randolph can he? Skal a decent young player, but he's a bench guy. Giles is going to be a center in the NBA. The guys a moron because you take best player available. He's the guy that would have ripped the Tatum pick because of fit. Almost everyone had Bagley as a top three player. Sure I have some questions about him, but that's true of almost every player in the draft. I can post some crazy negative opinions about your binkie Carter. He seems to have a lot more question marks than Bagley. I get it you want a top 5 pick from the Kings. I just don't see how you think he makes them worse defensively. They were dreadful last year. His rebounding alone probaly improves there D. The more head scratching move in my opinion was trading the 37th pick for two second picks. They needed a SF and there were a bunch of interesting guys there. You want to guage the Kings pick wait till after free agency. There one minor trade away from having max cap space. The owners want to win, they won't tank. Jabari Parker would be my target if I was them. I hate to be negative but in todays NBA with Tanking its hard to be that bad unless your team tanks. Nevermind after they add an amazing talent like Bagley. I just don't see how he's going to be anywhere close to a net negative for that team. Add in the other young players getting better and your looking most likely at a pick in the 6-10 range. For the first time in a while I'm starting to see a nice core group of young players on the Kings. They have back ups like Skal and Mason, legit NBA player depth. So just hope they mess up free agency and bring in some old as dirt players like last year. Did you watch him play a lot at Duke or are you basing it off reading he was in the 94th or whatever percentile in one on one D? Duke has to switch to a lot of zone because their man D was so bad last year and Wendell Carter would take the other teams true low post threat. When Carter was out they got shredded down low if they were playing anyone good. Bagley is a great athlete but he’s not quick enough to guard smaller guys on the perimeter if he gets switched. We will see but from what I watched he’s not a good defender. For the record, I don’t think the part about the fit is bad is true. That I’ll agree on. However, Zach Randolph was good for them last year and so was Vince Carter. Randolph was hardly a corpse. Bagley taking playing time from him is probably a good thing (or not if Randolph was going to fall off this year). I hope they don’t resign Carter or if they do he finally falls off a cliff and can’t play at all. Free agency will be interesting. I don’t know who the really terrible teams will be this year. Atlanta will probably be awful. Orlando will probably be petty bad but not god awful. The Suns might take a big jump. The Bulls will be better. Dallas never tanks. Memphis might if they are injured but they won’t tank. Cleveland might try and tank by trading Love when LeBron leaves... the Nets and Charlotte... who am I missing? Gotta be someone else. Too early for this discussion but there could be fewer bad teams than usual. |
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