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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 17, 2018 21:40:44 GMT -5
Not watching, just looking at the Gamecast and box. with 10 minutes remaining they are down by 19 AT HOME and 4 for 28 from 3 (that would be 14%). Rozier, Morris and Brown are combining for 1 for 16 from 3. Back to the drawing board for Brad and the boys. Kyrie with zero assists and 5 fouls. What a disaster. |
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Post by soxfansince67 on Nov 17, 2018 21:50:55 GMT -5
I've only watched a few of the games this season but followed Gamecast and box scores regularly... seems like a roster of deep talent that hasn't blended well at all, hasn't adjusted to having Irving and Hayward back....Stevens is taking his first real blemish to his rep.
Wondering if trying to keep all of the players happy with minutes is making few to none of them happy. One step forward followed by a big fall back is not going to do it. Time to settle on who gets the most minutes and ponder moving some of the excess? Not sure what needs to be done at this point. But...it is still pretty early in the season.
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Post by Don Caballero on Nov 17, 2018 22:18:42 GMT -5
You cannot overstate how bad of a job Stevens has done with this roster. Did you even watch the game? Jaylen can't hit goddamn layups, Rozier looks like he forgot how to play basketball, Horford is a small baller, Hayward still doesn't look like a pro baller and the whole team depends on Kyrie and Tatum to score because everyone else is unable to. Which leads to guys like Marcus Morris thinking they should shoot more to pick up the pace. It's a nightmare. Every single coach in the league will look bad when everyone on the team is playing like ass and this is 100% on the players. |
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Post by soxfansince67 on Nov 17, 2018 22:31:20 GMT -5
You cannot overstate how bad of a job Stevens has done with this roster. Did you even watch the game? Jaylen can't hit goddamn layups, Rozier looks like he forgot how to play basketball, Horford is a small baller, Hayward still doesn't look like a pro baller and the whole team depends on Kyrie and Tatum to score because everyone else is unable to. Which leads to guys like Marcus Morris thinking they should shoot more to pick up the pace. It's a nightmare. Every single coach in the league will look bad when everyone on the team is playing like ass and this is 100% on the players. Article about this today - weei.radio.com/blogs/weei/does-brad-stevens-have-toughest-coaching-job-nba |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 17, 2018 23:12:04 GMT -5
You cannot overstate how bad of a job Stevens has done with this roster. Did you even watch the game? Jaylen can't hit goddamn layups, Rozier looks like he forgot how to play basketball, Horford is a small baller, Hayward still doesn't look like a pro baller and the whole team depends on Kyrie and Tatum to score because everyone else is unable to. Which leads to guys like Marcus Morris thinking they should shoot more to pick up the pace. It's a nightmare. Every single coach in the league will look bad when everyone on the team is playing like ass and this is 100% on the players. Brown's play has been downright depressing. It's one thing if Rozier regresses in a bench role, it is another when one of your starting 5 players looks like fools gold in Brown. Hayward is just going to take time I guess. Whether it is a full year or a half a year is the question. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 18, 2018 0:18:27 GMT -5
The ESPN article explains the teams struggles clearly. It all starts with your floor general and Irving's slow style of iso ball doesn't fit with Tatum, Rozier and Brown. Tatum still looks good, but he looked better in the playoffs, all three did with team ball and a faster paced offense. Even Horford looked a lot better playing that way. Get your young athletic team out on the break. We were getting tons of wide open threes, the quick shots got us more opportunities. If Irving want to be the man, adjust to your team. That was Melo issue, all about him, not team ball. Sorry but this team is loaded and one of the worst offensive teams in the league, that is on Irving.
Hayward is the other big issue, seen a couple good games,yet he should be a bench player till he recovers fully. In theory he was a big part of making this work, his passing and being able to create
The other issue is that so many players means less Smart and Rozier compared to last year, which is highlighting Irving even more. You've taken out Baynes and inserted Hayward and the offense is worse. A guy like Brown is just like Rozier, very streaky and they need to be heavily involved. I don't think Brown just sucks now, he's just not fitting in to this offense they way its constructed. You can deal with an Irving, you can deal with a Hayward, you can deal with too much depth, yet you can't deal with all three at once. It's why I wanted Morris traded plus the salary cap. He's been great, but doesn't play team ball. More minutes for Brown and two guards would go a long way towards helping us at least get back towards last year. That and Stevens needs to tell the team to stop shooting so many three point shots and go to the basket. Either that or pick up the pace and take a lot more shots.
I miss the playoff team frankly. I loved that team and the way it played. Yea sure sometimes they couldn't hit the side of a barn. Yet they were still better than this team. Not because they had more talent, but they played as a team and played a style that fit the players skills. Watching this team play like the old Cleveland teams is killing me.
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Post by sarasoxer on Nov 18, 2018 9:02:18 GMT -5
If we're going to live and die with the 3, we need better shooters. What's happened to Brown?....shooting has so far seriously regressed from deep. Last year he looked dangerous.
Rozier of the playoffs has disappeared except for his rebounding.
Will Hayward fully come back? After practicing his stroke for 10 months and being praised for improving, even his open shots are bricking. Can he play fast-paced ball?
Is there a hangover from last year's all-out effort and overachievement?
We need an inside scoring presence and a rim robber. Mr. Williams?
I suspect that Danny is squinting at the tea leaves even this early. Kyrie said he would re-sign. Danny did not say he would re-up him.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Nov 18, 2018 9:40:34 GMT -5
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,860
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Post by wcp3 on Nov 18, 2018 9:43:48 GMT -5
You cannot overstate how bad of a job Stevens has done with this roster. Did you even watch the game? Jaylen can't hit goddamn layups, Rozier looks like he forgot how to play basketball, Horford is a small baller, Hayward still doesn't look like a pro baller and the whole team depends on Kyrie and Tatum to score because everyone else is unable to. Which leads to guys like Marcus Morris thinking they should shoot more to pick up the pace. It's a nightmare. Every single coach in the league will look bad when everyone on the team is playing like ass and this is 100% on the players. Sure did. |
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Post by Don Caballero on Nov 18, 2018 14:31:30 GMT -5
Then don't be unfair, it's not Brad's fault that a lot of the young guys are playing like sh*t (and I disagree with umass, this is NOT on the scheme as Jaylen is missing layups and Rozier seems to have no idea what even constitutes a good shot anymore) or that you can't rely on the 2 biggest salaries on the team to give you more than 10 points. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 18, 2018 15:23:25 GMT -5
Brown missed a ton of layups in the playoffs, yet last years of Tatum, Horford, Brown, Baynes, and Rozier attacked the rim relentlessly. This year the Celtics are what dead last in FG attempted in the paint. This isn't because Brown missed a layup, its we aren't running our offense and playing team ball. Moving the ball creates mismatches and lanes for guys to drive. We are just shooting jumpers this year.
Everyone thought I was crazy that no Irving made Rozier, Tatum, Brown, and Horford better. Roziers pace and running our offense. Even though he's no where near the player Irving is we still improved as a team. The sum of our pieces was better than our talent level. Well Irvings back, the pace is slow as crap again, our offense is worse again and all four of those players are playing worse. We are now worse than the sum of our talent, not better. Irving is a great scorer, but there is a reason why a Melo led team never came close to winning anything.
If your going to build around Irving then you need to change this team. Players like Brown, Rozier, Smart aren't great fits. You need a Cleveland type team loaded with good shooters, not a team full of guys that excell slashing, playing a faster pace or can't shot. Even Horford is a waste if your just going to use him as shooter, you need to be posting him up.
I prefer the playoff style of a faster pace, using our crazy athletic players. Not the Cavs sytle that seems to be outdated in today's NBA. You can't beat the Warriors playing that way.
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Post by Don Caballero on Nov 19, 2018 10:24:21 GMT -5
Brown missed a ton of layups in the playoffs, yet last years of Tatum, Horford, Brown, Baynes, and Rozier attacked the rim relentlessly. This year the Celtics are what dead last in FG attempted in the paint. This isn't because Brown missed a layup, its we aren't running our offense and playing team ball. Moving the ball creates mismatches and lanes for guys to drive. We are just shooting jumpers this year. Everyone thought I was crazy that no Irving made Rozier, Tatum, Brown, and Horford better. Roziers pace and running our offense. Even though he's no where near the player Irving is we still improved as a team. The sum of our pieces was better than our talent level. Well Irvings back, the pace is slow as crap again, our offense is worse again and all four of those players are playing worse. We are now worse than the sum of our talent, not better. Irving is a great scorer, but there is a reason why a Melo led team never came close to winning anything. If your going to build around Irving then you need to change this team. Players like Brown, Rozier, Smart aren't great fits. You need a Cleveland type team loaded with good shooters, not a team full of guys that excell slashing, playing a faster pace or can't shot. Even Horford is a waste if your just going to use him as shooter, you need to be posting him up. I prefer the playoff style of a faster pace, using our crazy athletic players. Not the Cavs sytle that seems to be outdated in today's NBA. You can't beat the Warriors playing that way. So what do you propose? Replace Irving with the Rozier/Smart combo? That's not going to change anything, they're also playing poorly. It's even more unfair to pin this on Irving than it is on Stevens. Irving is the best player on the roster. By far. Before you start questioning his fit on the offense, you need to question the players around him playing like garbage. This team is for sure rocking a losing record right now if we didn't have Irving. The Celtics rank 23rd in the pace, which is not great but you know, the Warriors are 18th and not far ahead. We're in the top half in assist ratio. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 19, 2018 16:56:22 GMT -5
Like I said start off small and trade Morris. Try and fix the easiest issue first too much depth and too many guys not playing team ball. I'm tempted to say trade Rozier, yet given the way the season is going Irving isn't a lock to resign so you can't do that.
Move Hayward to the bench and start Smart. More D, more hustle, more team first type crap. Hope and pray Hayward just needs time and can become our LeBron lite type player that Irving needs. The guy that allows him to focus on scoring and who he trusts to give the ball too a lot.
If that doesn't work things get hard and you need to make major changes and pick a path. An Irving type team and style or what we saw in the playoffs.
I'm not going to debate Irving to death anymore. I think it's rather clear, has been since last year. ESPN article clearly stats a ton of my thoughts. Shows I'm not the only one seeing those things.
This team ranks 24th points, 27th in offensive efficiency, 23rd in pace, 4th in 3 point attempts and 22nd in 2 point attempts. If you don't think that's on the PG ok, but a Rozier lead team without Irving was better last year. Heck the one game Rozier started is still our second highest point total in 4 quarters. Without Irving 115 points against the Jazz, with Irving 86 points the second time.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 19, 2018 18:23:37 GMT -5
we aren't running our offense and playing team ball. Moving the ball creates mismatches and lanes for guys to drive. We are just shooting jumpers this year. This is getting really annoying. You act like you know their offense and then blame it on Kyrie for not running it. You’re just making up what you want to be true. For example, Baynes is jacking 3s because that’s the offense. The ball is being moved guys are just settling for 3s or mid range jumpers. Rozier sucking and not attacking the rim is on him not any one else. Brown acting like this team already earned a spot in the finals and taking that to his play is on him not any one else. Actually, it’s also on the coach. They are playing like guys who can’t play with any pressure or expectations. They need to pick their play up along with Tatum and Hayward (has an excuse) and Horford we well. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 19, 2018 19:07:12 GMT -5
Baynes inserted for Hayward in the starting lineup tonight.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,860
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Post by wcp3 on Nov 19, 2018 19:40:54 GMT -5
Breaking: the Celtics still stink.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,860
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Post by wcp3 on Nov 19, 2018 20:59:48 GMT -5
Brad is spectacular at watching an entire lead evaporate right before his eyes and refusing to call a timeout.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 19, 2018 21:04:25 GMT -5
Kemba Walker is abusing the Celtics. Yeah bad letting the Celtics blow a lead before a timeout by Brad.
Can't believe they might lose to the Hornets now. Another lottery team.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 19, 2018 21:12:58 GMT -5
Will the real Celtics please stand up at any point for more than 1 game this year?
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,860
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Post by wcp3 on Nov 19, 2018 21:13:10 GMT -5
Can we finally admit this team is soft? Because they just let Tony Parker’s corpse torch them down the stretch.
Embarrassing stuff.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,860
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Post by wcp3 on Nov 19, 2018 21:20:59 GMT -5
Stevens deserves lower than an F tonight. Refused to call a timeout when the Celts were blowing the lead and made zero adjustments to take the ball out of Kemba’s hands.
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Post by Don Caballero on Nov 19, 2018 21:34:00 GMT -5
Like I said start off small and trade Morris. Try and fix the easiest issue first too much depth and too many guys not playing team ball. This is one thing I agree with you a lot, they need to play bigger and Morris could be an addition by Subtraction in that sense. This team blows right now. |
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Post by soxfansince67 on Nov 20, 2018 9:20:14 GMT -5
Season so far is turning out to be a dud - the team generates barely any discussion here. I didn't watch last night's game - only another sad look at the box score as it showed us coughing up another lead and an inability to close.
How long can Brad and Danny wait as the season melts away in mediocrity?
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Post by Don Caballero on Nov 20, 2018 10:27:38 GMT -5
Brad deserves some heat for last night usage of players. Brown was for once having a nice game on offense and yet he plays less than 20 minutes. Morris played 25. I can't stress this enough, but no matter how bad Brown has been on the year (and he was playing some flat out bad defense last night), you can't play Morris more minutes than him. Ever. Theis was a nice change and he got only 15 minutes. Stevens rotations have been really poor this season thus far.
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Post by texs31 on Nov 20, 2018 10:52:14 GMT -5
Season so far is turning out to be a dud - the team generates barely any discussion here. I didn't watch last night's game - only another sad look at the box score as it showed us coughing up another lead and an inability to close. How long can Brad and Danny wait as the season melts away in mediocrity? But what can Danny really do at this point? AD is NOT an option and he's really the only big move they could make. So you're trading off pending FAs or Smart. It wouldn't surprise any of us if Danny wants to wait until a healthy Irving signs on the dotted line before moving Rozier/Smart. So Morris. And you're getting maybe a late 1st for him (and tax relief)? Okay. Sure. But bigger issues with this team as has been discussed. |
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