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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 12, 2018 14:50:10 GMT -5
I don’t understand what you consider creating for him.... You watch the games. Jaylen takes his man off the dribble and goes to the hoop. That’s creating for himself. You remember his buzzer beating 3 the last game? That was self creating. He gets sloppy (so does Tatum), but Brown most certainly creates his own shots. Is it your contention that anyone who’s not a great ISO scorer needs guys to set him up? I’m not even sure this flies as if they have the right match up they do iso Jaylen. You’re acting like other players just set him up all the time by drawing his defender away and leaving him alone. That’s just not the case. It’s a nice narrative to talk about but there’s really no meaning behind it. But I do agree that different fits are better. You just call that a Kyrie problem and I don’t. Jaylen is freer in the second unit, not because Kyrie holds him back on the first, it’s because he’s the 5th option on the first unit, like he should be. Moving him to the second unit moves him up the pecking order. We will never agree on this since you consider the best player on the team a “net negative”. Yea he can create jump shots, but we both know that isn't what you were talking about. Acting like Tatum is anything like Brown is just funny. Tatum can with ease take the ball from the 3 point line and drive. Remember the one handed jam from last game? All playoffs long he did just that, he can actually dribble. Brown can't do stuff like that with any regularity. It turns into the possession where he just dribbled for like 15 seconds and we got a shot clock violation. I thought Morris was going to punch him. Brown can do ISO if you get him the ball in the low post, you just can't clear out a side and let him attack though. He really can't dribble around guys and a bunch of defenders. It gets ugly everytime. If you agree then why do you keep making post after post that its all on Brown? Moves to second unit, plays will guys that get him more involved he looks like Brown again. Yet we still get its all on Brown to be aggressive. He's not Tatum with the ability to do almost anything he wants on the court, yet he keeps taking a bunch of jumpers. I really don't want to keep bringing up Irving yet you and Don just won't let it go. I'm sorry but this it was everyone else but Irving crap doesn't fly anymore. We are 6-0 since Irving was basically made a SG and had the ball taken away. Less Irving Dominating the ball, less of him scoring has resulted in much better team basketball. We are scoring more, which is kinda comical giving people posting Irving was the only guy that could score articles. If this winning streak and the way they are playing doesn't show you that Irving can be a net negative I don't know what to tell you. This isn't everyone else changed type crap. This is Smart is the PG now, Rozier is the backup and Irving is playing off the ball, scoring within our offense for the first time in two years. The end result an offensive explosion not seen since the days of the orginal big three lead by Larry Bird. Because it can’t be all on a guy who wasn’t taken out of the lineup that’s why. By your logic a lineup with Smart and Brown would be better than a lineup of Smart and Kyrie. Net negative means the team is better without him playing. Also, never claimed Brown was Tatum but Brown gets to the rim with high frequency. He just can’t finish. He’s like Rozier in that regard; but they get to the rim differently so no Brown isn’t Rozier before you start breaking down how Terry is a better dribbler. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 12, 2018 14:51:51 GMT -5
Besides injury, what was Bradley’s biggest negative as a player? His size. The biggest reason, I felt you couldn’t win with Bradley was because he was this great on ball defender who could only guard point guards but couldn’t play point guard. He’s not a good team defender, just a one on one perimeter guy. If you put him in Jaylen’s body, he would have been a borderline all-star. I don’t think they are all that comparable but if Jaylen Brown were everything Bradley was plus the ability to guard 4 positions, get to the rim and rebound then we should all be very pleased. I agree with you overall assessment on Bradley, but to me his biggest negative as a player besides his size was his inability to pass the ball decisively. He was also somewhat inconsistent on a night to night basis and when he was off he looked terrible. He also wasn't great controlling the ball, but maybe that happened because defenses knew he wouldn't create anything to they would force him to keep it and drive. But for a guy his size, Avery was a fantastic defender and he was a very good shooter overall. Jaylen showed plenty of flashes of that (his defense is weirdly underrated) while also matching the same flaws. I don’t see Brown ever being a great facilitator. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 12, 2018 15:31:47 GMT -5
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Post by Don Caballero on Dec 12, 2018 19:03:00 GMT -5
I don’t see Brown ever being a great facilitator. Avery was that? He played within the offense and could save you in a pinch with some timely shots, but Brown definitely did that during the playoffs. Brown isn't there yet, however he showed plenty to me to suggest he'll be that player. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 12, 2018 19:21:55 GMT -5
I'm not devastated that Horford is going to miss a bunch more games and Robert Williams gets more looks against the Celtics soft schedule coming up.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 12, 2018 19:25:58 GMT -5
Yea he can create jump shots, but we both know that isn't what you were talking about. Acting like Tatum is anything like Brown is just funny. Tatum can with ease take the ball from the 3 point line and drive. Remember the one handed jam from last game? All playoffs long he did just that, he can actually dribble. Brown can't do stuff like that with any regularity. It turns into the possession where he just dribbled for like 15 seconds and we got a shot clock violation. I thought Morris was going to punch him. Brown can do ISO if you get him the ball in the low post, you just can't clear out a side and let him attack though. He really can't dribble around guys and a bunch of defenders. It gets ugly everytime. If you agree then why do you keep making post after post that its all on Brown? Moves to second unit, plays will guys that get him more involved he looks like Brown again. Yet we still get its all on Brown to be aggressive. He's not Tatum with the ability to do almost anything he wants on the court, yet he keeps taking a bunch of jumpers. I really don't want to keep bringing up Irving yet you and Don just won't let it go. I'm sorry but this it was everyone else but Irving crap doesn't fly anymore. We are 6-0 since Irving was basically made a SG and had the ball taken away. Less Irving Dominating the ball, less of him scoring has resulted in much better team basketball. We are scoring more, which is kinda comical giving people posting Irving was the only guy that could score articles. If this winning streak and the way they are playing doesn't show you that Irving can be a net negative I don't know what to tell you. This isn't everyone else changed type crap. This is Smart is the PG now, Rozier is the backup and Irving is playing off the ball, scoring within our offense for the first time in two years. The end result an offensive explosion not seen since the days of the orginal big three lead by Larry Bird. Because it can’t be all on a guy who wasn’t taken out of the lineup that’s why. By your logic a lineup with Smart and Brown would be better than a lineup of Smart and Kyrie. Net negative means the team is better without him playing. Also, never claimed Brown was Tatum but Brown gets to the rim with high frequency. He just can’t finish. He’s like Rozier in that regard; but they get to the rim differently so no Brown isn’t Rozier before you start breaking down how Terry is a better dribbler. Why can't it? Moving him to SG did everything I've been saying for a year now! Less Irving means better team ball and better results. It has been crazy clear since last year Irving isn't good at running our offense. He's a scorer first and passer second, not good when your the PG and our offense is all about ball movement. I'm sorry you feel the need to keep debating the exact samething. But I'm done! There's nothing left to debate Irving as a full-time PG hurts the team. Just look at the last six games. Irving was a huge issue as a PG! Can you please stop twisting my words? Can be a net negative, isn't the same as is a net negative all the time. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 12, 2018 19:44:24 GMT -5
I'm not devastated that Horford is going to miss a bunch more games and Robert Williams gets more looks against the Celtics softball tr schedule coming up. Two blocks in less than a minute! |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 12, 2018 19:56:07 GMT -5
Why no Brown?
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ianrs
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Post by ianrs on Dec 12, 2018 20:02:41 GMT -5
He's unfortunately dealing with an illness, pretty sure he was a late scratch. |
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Dec 12, 2018 21:26:51 GMT -5
Top-notch defense to close this one out.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 12, 2018 22:15:20 GMT -5
Great win considering everyone out and the Wiz playing 100%. That felt like a playoff game.
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Post by Don Caballero on Dec 12, 2018 22:18:20 GMT -5
I'm starting to think the team maybe should explore resigning Marcus Morris and punting another wing instead. I still don't like him as a player all that much, but it's remarkable how he's taking less flat out terrible shots than he did before.
Smart totally is the heart of this team in a way that is ridiculous.
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Post by unitspin on Dec 12, 2018 23:18:00 GMT -5
I'm starting to think the team maybe should explore resigning Marcus Morris and punting another wing instead. I still don't like him as a player all that much, but it's remarkable how he's taking less flat out terrible shots than he did before. Smart totally is the heart of this team in a way that is ridiculous. Smart is so important that no team was willing to give him an Evan turner contract. He had to crawl back to the Celts and take what they were offering. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 12, 2018 23:48:50 GMT -5
Morris fits well with Irving. He looks great right now, but we saw this last year. He was on fire for a stretch. He's still the same guy for me, he's just making his shots so he looks great.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 13, 2018 3:24:35 GMT -5
I'm starting to think the team maybe should explore resigning Marcus Morris and punting another wing instead. I still don't like him as a player all that much, but it's remarkable how he's taking less flat out terrible shots than he did before. Smart totally is the heart of this team in a way that is ridiculous. Smart is so important that no team was willing to give him an Evan turner contract. He had to crawl back to the Celts and take what they were offering. Smart was a restricted free agent. Any team but the Celtics had to give up a first round pick plus money to sign Smart. The way you put it makes it sound like Smart isn't desirable at all. He just wasn't a true free agent and it cost him to really negotiate with other teams. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 13, 2018 6:40:38 GMT -5
Morris fits well with Irving. He looks great right now, but we saw this last year. He was on fire for a stretch. He's still the same guy for me, he's just making his shots so he looks great. He’s less of a black hole this year. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 13, 2018 6:44:07 GMT -5
Smart is so important that no team was willing to give him an Evan turner contract. He had to crawl back to the Celts and take what they were offering. Smart was a restricted free agent. Any team but the Celtics had to give up a first round pick plus money to sign Smart. The way you put it makes it sound like Smart isn't desirable at all. He just wasn't a true free agent and it cost him to really negotiate with other teams. A restricted free agent in basketball just means the original team has the right to match. Teams generally avoid them because it’s a waste of time. Once a guy signs the offer sheet your cap is tied up and the original team has a couple days to match (forget exact period now). During that time you can’t do anything with that money so teams avoid it; especially contending teams which is who Smart would be attractive too. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 13, 2018 7:04:36 GMT -5
Because it can’t be all on a guy who wasn’t taken out of the lineup that’s why. By your logic a lineup with Smart and Brown would be better than a lineup of Smart and Kyrie. Net negative means the team is better without him playing. Also, never claimed Brown was Tatum but Brown gets to the rim with high frequency. He just can’t finish. He’s like Rozier in that regard; but they get to the rim differently so no Brown isn’t Rozier before you start breaking down how Terry is a better dribbler. Why can't it? Moving him to SG did everything I've been saying for a year now! Less Irving means better team ball and better results. It has been crazy clear since last year Irving isn't good at running our offense. He's a scorer first and passer second, not good when your the PG and our offense is all about ball movement. I'm sorry you feel the need to keep debating the exact samething. But I'm done! There's nothing left to debate Irving as a full-time PG hurts the team. Just look at the last six games. Irving was a huge issue as a PG! Can you please stop twisting my words? Can be a net negative, isn't the same as is a net negative all the time. Oh I’m sorry you literally blame every issue on the team on Kyrie. If other players aren’t doing well it’s his fault. You’ve set him up so when it all goes wrong it’s his fault and when it goes right it’s because they’ve supposedly limited his role. Kyrie isn’t perfect, no player is. Every guy needs the right players and combinations around him to maximize abilities. Every one, the line up change was a good move and I have no issues with talking about which guys fit without who better and why, but you go way too far when you start talking about the team being better without Kyrie. He hasn’t been moved to shooting guard tho, that’s just a fallacy. They added a second ball handler but Kyrie isn’t playing some Ray Allen or even Avery Bradley role, let’s simmer with that. It’s a shame too, because you’re missing Kyrie play really inspired basketball and he has all year. He’s not the best defensive player by a long stretch but we should be celebrating how he’s embraced that role and how he’s battling possession after possession getting loose balls and causing deflections. He doesn’t bitch even a little when he’s taken out in a strategic lineup when playing offense defense down the stretch. He’s 26... he’s learning how to be a leader; it won’t always be perfect but he’s embracing the role. If you’re going to stigmatize him as “playing hero” ball, then you either don’t want a star player on your NBA team or you’re being intellectually dishonest because you have an issue with Kyrie. Great scorers have those moments and they are supposed to. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 13, 2018 7:07:48 GMT -5
John Wall is the absolute worst. Guys an embarrassment. Talk about screwing a franchise over. He’s such an ass. He got mad and tried for a stretch last night and was unstoppable, then he fakes an injury like a Prima Dona because he was tired of taking it to the rim and not getting a foul call. The Wizards should be able to sue him for breach of contract. That guy is one of the highest paid players in the league and barely even tries.
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 13, 2018 7:09:48 GMT -5
I'm not devastated that Horford is going to miss a bunch more games and Robert Williams gets more looks against the Celtics softball tr schedule coming up. Two blocks in less than a minute! He does look good. Tatum is my boy and I was actually mad when they took Williams out down the stretch and put Tatum back in. He’s earned more minutes right now and just the fact he can play at all allows them the ability to sit Horford for a longer stretch. |
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Post by texs31 on Dec 13, 2018 8:47:06 GMT -5
I'm probably bringing up drama where they likely isn't anyone but did anyone else notice that, after Kyrie's sick pass to Tatum for a dunk during the C's flurry towards the end of regulation, Tatum didn't even look at Irving as they sat down on the bench? It looked like Tatum was sulking.
Not sure if he's pissed bc he was believing his own hype and felt he'd be leading the team but Kyrie's back and he's second (and, with Morris doing what he's doing, sometimes 3rd) fiddle?
Again, it's possible I'm seeing something that isn't there but it just struck me as strange when every other Celtic was bouncing around and high-fiving. Struck me weird.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 13, 2018 9:12:15 GMT -5
Smart was a restricted free agent. Any team but the Celtics had to give up a first round pick plus money to sign Smart. The way you put it makes it sound like Smart isn't desirable at all. He just wasn't a true free agent and it cost him to really negotiate with other teams. A restricted free agent in basketball just means the original team has the right to match. Teams generally avoid them because it’s a waste of time. Once a guy signs the offer sheet your cap is tied up and the original team has a couple days to match (forget exact period now). During that time you can’t do anything with that money so teams avoid it; especially contending teams which is who Smart would be attractive too. Ohh okay, mixing up the leagues again. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 13, 2018 10:38:11 GMT -5
I'm probably bringing up drama where they likely isn't anyone but did anyone else notice that, after Kyrie's sick pass to Tatum for a dunk during the C's flurry towards the end of regulation, Tatum didn't even look at Irving as they sat down on the bench? It looked like Tatum was sulking. Not sure if he's pissed bc he was believing his own hype and felt he'd be leading the team but Kyrie's back and he's second (and, with Morris doing what he's doing, sometimes 3rd) fiddle? Again, it's possible I'm seeing something that isn't there but it just struck me as strange when every other Celtic was bouncing around and high-fiving. Struck me weird. I did not notice anything but Tatum and Kyrie are pretty tight from what I’ve heard. They got that Duke thing going on. Tatum gets a lot of love and opportunity though so if he has an issue he needs to check himself. He’s been playing really well tho so I’d be surprised. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 13, 2018 10:39:21 GMT -5
By the way the Celtics were 25 of 25 from the line last night...
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Post by unitspin on Dec 13, 2018 11:04:50 GMT -5
A restricted free agent in basketball just means the original team has the right to match. Teams generally avoid them because it’s a waste of time. Once a guy signs the offer sheet your cap is tied up and the original team has a couple days to match (forget exact period now). During that time you can’t do anything with that money so teams avoid it; especially contending teams which is who Smart would be attractive too. Ohh okay, mixing up the leagues again. If a team desired a 6th man for more then 13 mil a year then ya they would have offered him a deal. In the nba rfa get offers from other teams all the time. To be honest he just is not high on peoples list of how to build a team. If he could shoot a lil bit then we are talking a valuable piece to other teams. But I believe by numbers he is one of the worse shooters in the nbas history. |
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