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Post by texs31 on Dec 13, 2018 11:37:43 GMT -5
That just doesn't make sense. As an RFA, the only way to get him was to force Boston not to match. That means giving him a bad contract bc Danny would've matched any reasonable one (plus as stated above, you tie up your space until the match).
How many offer sheets do we see a year? 1? 2 maybe?
Nobody disagrees that Marcus has some significant limitations in his game. Teams need what Smart brings to a team. However, they are rarely willing to overpay for it (like they would with scoring, rebounding, assists, blocks, etc).
That's a FAR cry from teams not being high on him.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 13, 2018 11:59:42 GMT -5
Why can't it? Moving him to SG did everything I've been saying for a year now! Less Irving means better team ball and better results. It has been crazy clear since last year Irving isn't good at running our offense. He's a scorer first and passer second, not good when your the PG and our offense is all about ball movement. I'm sorry you feel the need to keep debating the exact samething. But I'm done! There's nothing left to debate Irving as a full-time PG hurts the team. Just look at the last six games. Irving was a huge issue as a PG! Can you please stop twisting my words? Can be a net negative, isn't the same as is a net negative all the time. Oh I’m sorry you literally blame every issue on the team on Kyrie. If other players aren’t doing well it’s his fault. You’ve set him up so when it all goes wrong it’s his fault and when it goes right it’s because they’ve supposedly limited his role. Kyrie isn’t perfect, no player is. Every guy needs the right players and combinations around him to maximize abilities. Every one, the line up change was a good move and I have no issues with talking about which guys fit without who better and why, but you go way too far when you start talking about the team being better without Kyrie. He hasn’t been moved to shooting guard tho, that’s just a fallacy. They added a second ball handler but Kyrie isn’t playing some Ray Allen or even Avery Bradley role, let’s simmer with that. It’s a shame too, because you’re missing Kyrie play really inspired basketball and he has all year. He’s not the best defensive player by a long stretch but we should be celebrating how he’s embraced that role and how he’s battling possession after possession getting loose balls and causing deflections. He doesn’t bitch even a little when he’s taken out in a strategic lineup when playing offense defense down the stretch. He’s 26... he’s learning how to be a leader; it won’t always be perfect but he’s embracing the role. If you’re going to stigmatize him as “playing hero” ball, then you either don’t want a star player on your NBA team or you’re being intellectually dishonest because you have an issue with Kyrie. Great scorers have those moments and they are supposed to. How isn't Irving playing SG? I'm litterally watching the majority of the time he's not bringing the ball, up and starting our offense, after doing that the majority of the time as a Celtic. Smart and Rozier are calling the plays. He goes back and demands it sometimes, but you have Smart and Rozier sitting there waiting for the ball. It's crystal clear what has happened. Acting like because he's not Ray Allen he hasn't had the majority of his PG duties taken away is funny. He'll never be Ray Allen. He'll always still have the ball a lot, just not as much. Which as been my issue since last year. The results are clear backed up by stats like 40 extra passes a game because of Irving scoring within the offense. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 13, 2018 12:10:29 GMT -5
John Wall is the absolute worst. Guys an embarrassment. Talk about screwing a franchise over. He’s such an ass. He got mad and tried for a stretch last night and was unstoppable, then he fakes an injury like a Prima Dona because he was tired of taking it to the rim and not getting a foul call. The Wizards should be able to sue him for breach of contract. That guy is one of the highest paid players in the league and barely even tries. He wanted a foul on 3 straight possessions and threw that fit at the end that allowed Irving to drive the court and find Tatum for the dunk. Just horrible and a bad leader. It was like a playoff game, refs weren't calling a little contact if you made the basket. That whole team was acting like a bunch of babies at the end of regulation. He had to be close to getting a technical. At the same time that was some type of show he put on as Irving, Smart, and Rozier couldn't slow him down. |
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Post by unitspin on Dec 13, 2018 13:21:17 GMT -5
That just doesn't make sense. As an RFA, the only way to get him was to force Boston not to match. That means giving him a bad contract bc Danny would've matched any reasonable one (plus as stated above, you tie up your space until the match). How many offer sheets do we see a year? 1? 2 maybe? Nobody disagrees that Marcus has some significant limitations in his game. Teams need what Smart brings to a team. However, they are rarely willing to overpay for it (like they would with scoring, rebounding, assists, blocks, etc). That's a FAR cry from teams not being high on him. Well thats your opinion difference between yours and mine is 29 nba gms agreed with my opinion. There are plenty of offer sheets season to season and there have been plenty of times teams did not meet the offer sheet. The problem is the player has to be deemed worth it and they deemed smart unworthy of more then 52 over 4. Contrary to what smart thought not many teams value his skill set at those numbers. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 13, 2018 13:33:48 GMT -5
You can't say that without knowing how the negotiations went. You have zero clue if Smart turned down signing other offers for more money to remain a Celtic and not go to a crappy team. There were plenty of reports that other teams showed interest. Nevermind teams don't make many offers to restricted free agents unless they think they can pry them away. Example teams knew Danny wanted cap space and Olynk would eat into that, so that isn't a surprise. With Smart that was gone because we were caped out. Losing him meant losing the ability to sign a guy to a contract like that and losing him for nothing.
So without inside information you really know nothing. For all we know Danny was telling every team he'd match all offers and Smart isn't the type of guy teams go crazy for and give a max level deal so a team might not match.
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Post by texs31 on Dec 13, 2018 14:06:14 GMT -5
Your opinion is what it is. It's the assertion that the outcome confirms your opinion that doesn't make sense. The outcome is easily explained by the system so it CAN'T be the defense of your opinion.
As UMass says, without knowing what they were thinking we can only speculate. You're trying to state a fact and building a case for that fact with information that has alternate reasoning.
THAT doesn't make sense.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 13, 2018 14:32:12 GMT -5
Danny didn't just give Smart 4 years 54 million for no reason. I had him pegged at like 10 million per. If Danny thought Smart would get no offers next year he would just had played hard ball. Something made him go that high either interest from other teams or the fact Danny thought he'd get that or more next year. Danny isn't stupid and most of his extensions look brillant after a few years. Look at Bradley and Crowder, people thought he overpaid for both of them!
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Post by unitspin on Dec 13, 2018 15:22:35 GMT -5
Danny didn't just give Smart 4 years 54 million for no reason. I had him pegged at like 10 million per. If Danny thought Smart would get no offers next year he would just had played hard ball. Something made him go that high either interest from other teams or the fact Danny thought he'd get that or more next year. Danny isn't stupid and most of his extensions look brillant after a few years. Look at Bradley and Crowder, people thought he overpaid for both of them! 52 million over 4 years and I'm sorry to take the green teamer goggles off you fellas but smart is a defense only player. And I do not need to know what other gms were thinking bcs not one team made an offer. If a team offered him 70 over 4 years Danny was not matching it so I beg the differ he was not matching all offers. They went over his stats last season while a free agent and he is in the bottom of the pack in the history of the game shooting. History of the game marcus smart right there bottom of the pack. He will never justify his contract. |
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Post by unitspin on Dec 13, 2018 15:37:07 GMT -5
Your opinion is what it is. It's the assertion that the outcome confirms your opinion that doesn't make sense. The outcome is easily explained by the system so it CAN'T be the defense of your opinion. As UMass says, without knowing what they were thinking we can only speculate. You're trying to state a fact and building a case for that fact with information that has alternate reasoning. THAT doesn't make sense. How would you judge an opinion other than an outcome. Hence red sox are the best team in baseball before they win the title it was up for debate after they win a title it is longer up for debate. An outcome determines an opinion which is Marcus smart is not a hot commondity teams are not dying to get him on their team otherwise they would have made an attempt to get him. |
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Post by texs31 on Dec 13, 2018 15:40:53 GMT -5
Wow, really?
I'm assuming there are multiple ways to drive to where you live. If I arrive at your house, does that mean you KNOW how I got there?
EDIT: Or better. I rolled 2 dice and the result was 10. Tell me what was on each one. You CAN'T bc there are multiple valid combinations.
EDIT2: To get back on point, there are many explanations for why Smart landed the contract he did (including the explanation that has faced almost every RFA in the NBA). Unless you know what all NBA GMs/Owners were thinking, you're just speculating. We are too. The difference is that we're not trying to pawn it off as fact.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 13, 2018 16:42:59 GMT -5
Danny didn't just give Smart 4 years 54 million for no reason. I had him pegged at like 10 million per. If Danny thought Smart would get no offers next year he would just had played hard ball. Something made him go that high either interest from other teams or the fact Danny thought he'd get that or more next year. Danny isn't stupid and most of his extensions look brillant after a few years. Look at Bradley and Crowder, people thought he overpaid for both of them! 52 million over 4 years and I'm sorry to take the green teamer goggles off you fellas but smart is a defense only player. And I do not need to know what other gms were thinking bcs not one team made an offer. If a team offered him 70 over 4 years Danny was not matching it so I beg the differ he was not matching all offers. They went over his stats last season while a free agent and he is in the bottom of the pack in the history of the game shooting. History of the game marcus smart right there bottom of the pack. He will never justify his contract. Your hatred of Smart is ridiculous and frankly outlandish. Smart is arguably the leader of the Celtics right now. Not Kyrie, not Tatum, not Horford. It's him. He's the one talking after post games all the time and taking the blame. He does stuff on the court that is incredible because of his heart and effort. The Celtics as a team got a lot better when he was inserted into the starting lineup this season. In fact, they have won 7 games in a row now. There's no coincidence behind that and Smart is a big reason for that. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 13, 2018 17:04:46 GMT -5
Danny didn't just give Smart 4 years 54 million for no reason. I had him pegged at like 10 million per. If Danny thought Smart would get no offers next year he would just had played hard ball. Something made him go that high either interest from other teams or the fact Danny thought he'd get that or more next year. Danny isn't stupid and most of his extensions look brillant after a few years. Look at Bradley and Crowder, people thought he overpaid for both of them! 52 million over 4 years and I'm sorry to take the green teamer goggles off you fellas but smart is a defense only player. And I do not need to know what other gms were thinking bcs not one team made an offer. If a team offered him 70 over 4 years Danny was not matching it so I beg the differ he was not matching all offers. They went over his stats last season while a free agent and he is in the bottom of the pack in the history of the game shooting. History of the game marcus smart right there bottom of the pack. He will never justify his contract. Top seven guys, only two guys got offers from other teams, one matched and one team let him go. What the 5 guys all suck because teams didn't make offers? There are a bunch more guys not on this list. Restricted offers are rare, only a couple a year on the whole class. I'm not going to argue Smart is a good shooter. Advanced numbers show he's our second best defender and has the third best point differently on the team after Irving and Horford. He's been a huge part of our 7 game winning streak. You know him moving into the starting lineup was game one of this streak! So how do you measure his play won't justify the contract? A starter and key clog on a title contenders isn't worth that contract? Really funny time to bring up something like this. Might not be a better time than right now for him showing you his value to this team. Look what you've done! Got me defending Smart and I'm far from his biggest fan. |
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Post by unitspin on Dec 13, 2018 17:22:16 GMT -5
52 million over 4 years and I'm sorry to take the green teamer goggles off you fellas but smart is a defense only player. And I do not need to know what other gms were thinking bcs not one team made an offer. If a team offered him 70 over 4 years Danny was not matching it so I beg the differ he was not matching all offers. They went over his stats last season while a free agent and he is in the bottom of the pack in the history of the game shooting. History of the game marcus smart right there bottom of the pack. He will never justify his contract. Your hatred of Smart is ridiculous and frankly outlandish. Smart is arguably the leader of the Celtics right now. Not Kyrie, not Tatum, not Horford. It's him. He's the one talking after post games all the time and taking the blame. He does stuff on the court that is incredible because of his heart and effort. The Celtics as a team got a lot better when he was inserted into the starting lineup this season. In fact, they have won 7 games in a row now. There's no coincidence behind that and Smart is a big reason for that. Ahahaha marcus smart the leader of the team your joking right. Let me guess hes been single handlely winning these games with his 6.9 pt average a game its not kyrie dropping 38 last night its Marcus smart. And I'm the one that is blind ahaha. |
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Post by unitspin on Dec 13, 2018 17:31:44 GMT -5
Umass last season 2017 there was 5 rfa offer sheets. Their common enough that a player deemed worth it are giving the offer sheet which they have to accept so some of those players you are talking about could have turned down offer sheets. That did not happen in this situation. But your just making a guess that they did not recieve offer sheets and stating as fact so we will never know. Sound familiar.
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 13, 2018 17:33:48 GMT -5
John Wall is the absolute worst. Guys an embarrassment. Talk about screwing a franchise over. He’s such an ass. He got mad and tried for a stretch last night and was unstoppable, then he fakes an injury like a Prima Dona because he was tired of taking it to the rim and not getting a foul call. The Wizards should be able to sue him for breach of contract. That guy is one of the highest paid players in the league and barely even tries. He wanted a foul on 3 straight possessions and threw that fit at the end that allowed Irving to drive the court and find Tatum for the dunk. Just horrible and a bad leader. It was like a playoff game, refs weren't calling a little contact if you made the basket. That whole team was acting like a bunch of babies at the end of regulation. He had to be close to getting a technical. At the same time that was some type of show he put on as Irving, Smart, and Rozier couldn't slow him down. Bradley Beal must want to kill himself playing with these guys. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 13, 2018 17:35:13 GMT -5
Your hatred of Smart is ridiculous and frankly outlandish. Smart is arguably the leader of the Celtics right now. Not Kyrie, not Tatum, not Horford. It's him. He's the one talking after post games all the time and taking the blame. He does stuff on the court that is incredible because of his heart and effort. The Celtics as a team got a lot better when he was inserted into the starting lineup this season. In fact, they have won 7 games in a row now. There's no coincidence behind that and Smart is a big reason for that. Ahahaha marcus smart the leader of the team your joking right. Let me guess hes been single handlely winning these games with his 6.9 pt average a game its not kyrie dropping 38 last night its Marcus smart. And I'm the one that is blind ahaha. Smart's job isn't to score, that's what makes him special. He changes the game beyond his scoring, not many if any players can say that. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 13, 2018 17:43:54 GMT -5
Oh I’m sorry you literally blame every issue on the team on Kyrie. If other players aren’t doing well it’s his fault. You’ve set him up so when it all goes wrong it’s his fault and when it goes right it’s because they’ve supposedly limited his role. Kyrie isn’t perfect, no player is. Every guy needs the right players and combinations around him to maximize abilities. Every one, the line up change was a good move and I have no issues with talking about which guys fit without who better and why, but you go way too far when you start talking about the team being better without Kyrie. He hasn’t been moved to shooting guard tho, that’s just a fallacy. They added a second ball handler but Kyrie isn’t playing some Ray Allen or even Avery Bradley role, let’s simmer with that. It’s a shame too, because you’re missing Kyrie play really inspired basketball and he has all year. He’s not the best defensive player by a long stretch but we should be celebrating how he’s embraced that role and how he’s battling possession after possession getting loose balls and causing deflections. He doesn’t bitch even a little when he’s taken out in a strategic lineup when playing offense defense down the stretch. He’s 26... he’s learning how to be a leader; it won’t always be perfect but he’s embracing the role. If you’re going to stigmatize him as “playing hero” ball, then you either don’t want a star player on your NBA team or you’re being intellectually dishonest because you have an issue with Kyrie. Great scorers have those moments and they are supposed to. How isn't Irving playing SG? I'm litterally watching the majority of the time he's not bringing the ball, up and starting our offense, after doing that the majority of the time as a Celtic. Smart and Rozier are calling the plays. He goes back and demands it sometimes, but you have Smart and Rozier sitting there waiting for the ball. It's crystal clear what has happened. Acting like because he's not Ray Allen he hasn't had the majority of his PG duties taken away is funny. He'll never be Ray Allen. He'll always still have the ball a lot, just not as much. Which as been my issue since last year. The results are clear backed up by stats like 40 extra passes a game because of Irving scoring within the offense. I’ll track it with pen to paper next game I can watch, but what I see is when Smart and Kyrie share the court Kyrie brings the ball up the majority of the time after an opponents made basket when Kyrie and Smart are both in the back court. Obviously, there are times where it’s a fast break or transition and one isn’t back so the other is going to bring it up and after rebounds it’s hard because it depends who gets it. On a side out, they do inbound to Smart more and run Kyrie off a screen. They let Rozier bring it up when he’s in but that’s always the case. Keeps him from crying probably (jk). |
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 13, 2018 17:47:04 GMT -5
The results are clear backed up by stats like 40 extra passes a game because of Irving scoring within the offense. These are he comments of where you lose me. It’s the blame Kyrie for the issues and give no credit for the positives. They are passing more because they are playing more 2 point guard lineups. I just can’t get behind the logic that Brown and Hayward are taken off the court but it’s the guy or guys still on the court who were to blame for the other lineup not performing. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 13, 2018 17:52:47 GMT -5
Umass last season 2017 there was 5 rfa offer sheets. Their common enough that a player deemed worth it are giving the offer sheet which they have to accept so some of those players you are talking about could have turned down offer sheets. That did not happen in this situation. But your just making a guess that they did not recieve offer sheets and stating as fact so we will never know. Sound familiar. Was there? For who? I'm seeing Lavine and Anderson. Everyone else had the offers rescinded from what I'm seeing guys like Parker, Randle, McDermott, Bjelica, Farrell. If there was 3 others they weren't even top 20 guys, because the top 20 list shows only two guys got offer sheets. 10% isn't common. Six out of the top seven guys didn't get offer sheets. Smart got what the third largest contract? This whole argument makes no sense. You just can't value a guy because he doesn't get a restricted offer, I'm seeing two for all restricted free agents. I'm seeing more guys have rescinded offers than getting offer sheets. |
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Post by unitspin on Dec 13, 2018 19:54:14 GMT -5
Ahahaha marcus smart the leader of the team your joking right. Let me guess hes been single handlely winning these games with his 6.9 pt average a game its not kyrie dropping 38 last night its Marcus smart. And I'm the one that is blind ahaha. Smart's job isn't to score, that's what makes him special. He changes the game beyond his scoring, not many if any players can say that. Right gotcha hes special because he does not score points mmmkay. Ill tell ya what I can not score in the nba either guess I should get 52 mil. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 13, 2018 20:03:46 GMT -5
Smart's job isn't to score, that's what makes him special. He changes the game beyond his scoring, not many if any players can say that. Right gotcha hes special because he does not score points mmmkay. Ill tell ya what I can not score in the nba either guess I should get 52 mil. You can not do even 1/100th of what Smart does in the NBA. 52 million is literally nothing in the NBA with the rising salaries. Smart actually has more value now because you can match salaries easier in a trade now because of his contract. If you want to start campaign against Smart, you're the only one. He's special because he plays elite defense, can guard any position on the court, is a skilled passer, can handle the ball and run a team on offense. He can literally do a little bit of everything on a basketball court. Yes all of that is easily worth 52 million. |
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Post by unitspin on Dec 13, 2018 22:24:49 GMT -5
Right gotcha hes special because he does not score points mmmkay. Ill tell ya what I can not score in the nba either guess I should get 52 mil. You can not do even 1/100th of what Smart does in the NBA. 52 million is literally nothing in the NBA with the rising salaries. Smart actually has more value now because you can match salaries easier in a trade now because of his contract. If you want to start campaign against Smart, you're the only one. He's special because he plays elite defense, can guard any position on the court, is a skilled passer, can handle the ball and run a team on offense. He can literally do a little bit of everything on a basketball court. Yes all of that is easily worth 52 million. News in smart can guard centers in the nba now how tall is he but he can guard 7 footers lol. Whats next can he beat LeBron one on one. Hes more vaulable then kyrie, guards 7 footers all while being passed over for a measly 52 mil. Guess all the other gms most be stupid. Fanboy much you have smart pajamas. |
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Post by Don Caballero on Dec 13, 2018 23:43:07 GMT -5
News in smart can guard centers in the nba now how tall is he but he can guard 7 footers lol. Whats next can he beat LeBron one on one. Hes more vaulable then kyrie, guards 7 footers all while being passed over for a measly 52 mil. Guess all the other gms most be stupid. Fanboy much you have smart pajamas. Please try a bit harder. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 14, 2018 4:30:07 GMT -5
You can not do even 1/100th of what Smart does in the NBA. 52 million is literally nothing in the NBA with the rising salaries. Smart actually has more value now because you can match salaries easier in a trade now because of his contract. If you want to start campaign against Smart, you're the only one. He's special because he plays elite defense, can guard any position on the court, is a skilled passer, can handle the ball and run a team on offense. He can literally do a little bit of everything on a basketball court. Yes all of that is easily worth 52 million. News in smart can guard centers in the nba now how tall is he but he can guard 7 footers lol. Whats next can he beat LeBron one on one. Hes more vaulable then kyrie, guards 7 footers all while being passed over for a measly 52 mil. Guess all the other gms most be stupid. Fanboy much you have smart pajamas. Did you watch the last game? The Wizards played a 7 footer at center only 18 out of 48 minutes. Heck Bryant isn't even seven feet, but 6'11". The rest of the time it was Morris mainly vs his brother playing center for us. That is the new NBA. So yea while it sounds crazy Smart can guard Morris who was playing center. You want to have an intelligent debate most of us are game. We've had some lively ones about Smart. Yet you just seem to want to make fun of him because you think he makes too much. Based on what? Don't give me that restricted free agent crap, that just makes zero sense. Just like using his point total or shooting percentage. Advanced stats love him, we do better on the court with him over everyone but Irving and Horford. You think his D is overrated ok, based off what? Smart is like Bradley for the Red Sox. You can look at his .234 average and think he sucks. Yet he really helps the team on D and can get hits. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 14, 2018 4:32:48 GMT -5
How isn't Irving playing SG? I'm litterally watching the majority of the time he's not bringing the ball, up and starting our offense, after doing that the majority of the time as a Celtic. Smart and Rozier are calling the plays. He goes back and demands it sometimes, but you have Smart and Rozier sitting there waiting for the ball. It's crystal clear what has happened. Acting like because he's not Ray Allen he hasn't had the majority of his PG duties taken away is funny. He'll never be Ray Allen. He'll always still have the ball a lot, just not as much. Which as been my issue since last year. The results are clear backed up by stats like 40 extra passes a game because of Irving scoring within the offense. I’ll track it with pen to paper next game I can watch, but what I see is when Smart and Kyrie share the court Kyrie brings the ball up the majority of the time after an opponents made basket when Kyrie and Smart are both in the back court. Obviously, there are times where it’s a fast break or transition and one isn’t back so the other is going to bring it up and after rebounds it’s hard because it depends who gets it. On a side out, they do inbound to Smart more and run Kyrie off a screen. They let Rozier bring it up when he’s in but that’s always the case. Keeps him from crying probably (jk). Let me know. I think you will be surprised and start seeing what I'm seeing. |
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