2018-19 Celtics Season

Right, and you can’t blame one player playing less aggressively on another player, especial when said player has been aggressive on both ends. If that is the case, then you need to look first at the players who are being less aggressive. It’s no coincidence that said players are young guys still developing. If they want to be on title teams, then they better learn how to play with true high end talent and not play timid. There’s a reason Horford, Morris and Smart don’t give a crap who’s on the court with them, they are going to play their games regardless. Brown has taken it on the chin this season but the last 6 games or so he’s stepped things up and been aggressive no matter who he’s playing with.

4 days ago 🤔

Fact is they’ve been playing really well offensively for well over a month. These last 2 games against awful teams changes nothing. Dallas is literally the worst team in the NBA on the road and Minny is right behind them. Especially, since they’ve have plenty of games like them otherwise.

Add: go ahead get your last word in because i will no longer be entertaining the Kyrie stops the ball narrative.

www.celticsblog.com/2019/1/3/18166805/celtics-improve-to-27-17-all-time-without-kyrie-irving-as-super-subs-shine-vs-wolves-video-nba

It's everywhere and you seem to be one of the only people that think Irving doesn't hurt our ball movement.

Looking good yea I believe that, I said Irving was improving. Yet we've never seen a great offense either and Irving has done this before then goes on a few game tear of going right back to his old ways. He's taking baby steps but we aren't close to playing full on Celtic Basketball with him either. Which is what these games highlight. Add a guy like Irving to the way they are playing and we should be one of the top offense in the league. That just doesn't happen though, the offense is like the same with and without him. Hopefully the gametape can help Irving understand how to blend his play with his teammates and our system. The use of quick cuts and passes, not pounding the rock and clear out iso play. That type of crap is ok every now and then, but not a huge levels.

The one thing that gives me hope is when Irving wants to play team ball he can do it very effectively. Right now though it's like he has to force himself to do it. We won't reach our potential untill that becomes his normal way of playing.

1) That video also talks about how guys sit around and watch Irving play iso ball. So how can you blame the other players and say its on them to play hard and agressive? I guess they could just not give Irving the ball.

2) Did I do that? Or did I agrue Rozier runs the offense better? I argued all offseason that Irving needed to play team ball more, up the pace, and blend into the Celtics offense. You know score within the offense.

Those records show like half the games without Irving as Playoff games. 19 of them in fact and the team went 11-8. They won 11 playoff games without Irving! They won two playoff series and this year shows the Sixers and Bucks are both really good teams. Crazy impressive stuff.

I'm not arguing they are better without Irving. It's the fact they are about the same that is crazy. You are mixing up last years playoffs with this year. It's that all those guys you keep saying need play harder, more aggressive and overall better do exactly that without Irving. Look at the Brown stats I posted, look at how Rozier plays without Irving. Take Harden off of the Rockets and they would fall a part.

I've also made it clear Irving isn't the only issue. Yet most of our issues have been solved with moving Hayward and Brown to the bench. Heck Hayward bouncing back also fixes a huge issue. The most glaring one left is how the teams plays totally different with Irving than Without him. It's why it's a huge talking point right now. Everyone finally sees it.

3) Are you saying Irving doesn't dominate the ball? I don't even know what to say overall about that. I think he does exactly what they talked about in the video.

Here's the thing with Irving he wants the team to play his way. He's said just that. Yea he's made some changes and has improved. Yet he still believes that, just like a Durant does in Golden State. If the team can play so well without you shouldn't you blend into the system rather than try and change it? You think the players need to step and up and play better at Irvings game. I think Irving needs to play our game more, the one that suits the rest of the team. That is going to be the best Celtic team. If this team sucked without Irving and could only win with him I'd side with you. Example the Lakers and teams like Houston. They suck without LeBron and Harden, so yea those guys need to play his style. That isn't the Celtics. I'd fully expect this team to have a very similar record if Irving was out the whole year! Hence they aren't playing close to the level they should with an Irving. That's on him and his different style. The same way I agree with Steve Kerr that Durant needs to blend into Golden States style, not try and change it.

Irving has made progress, but he's not even close to playing full Celtic Basketball all the time. You notice it like crazy when he's out. It's why I'd make him a full-time SG untill he can fully change. He plays a lot better team Basketball off the ball than with it. Even then he has some work to do.

This all comes down to what you think you need to win in the NBA team Basketball or ISO Basketball. I'm a team basketball guy, that is what made us great in last years playoffs. It's what made the big three era great. It's what has made the Warriors an all-time great team. If you want to be an ISO team you need to make some trades, this team isn't built to play that way. It was built to play Stevens style.

I saw your Jaylen Brown numbers and I think they are rather meaningless once you dig deeper into them. You’re using them to try and prove once he was taken out of the lineup and freed from Kyrie then he’s turned a corner. It’s just not true. He started improving before he was even taken out of the lineup. 5 of his last 7 starts were filled with more aggressive play and more efficient scoring. They made the switch and 3 of his next 9 games were this way meaning 6 of them were not. The last 5 games we have seen the high promise Jaylen Brown we get excited about.

So in summary, a switch didn’t go off when he was moved to the bench. He showed signs of finding himself in the 2 weeks prior to that and it hasn’t been until the last 5 games he’s really shown us something. Jaylen Brown is all about being aggressive. He plays within his head too much.


19gp
11.1/39.8/25.3

5 of his last 7 games as a starter before the change he had much improved numbers - shot over 40% (4 of them over 57%)


9GP
12/43.5/31.3

** 3 of these games he played well. The other 6 were all 37.5% shooting and under (mostly well under)

5GP
17/63.5/46.7

Brown has shot over 55% in 8 of his last 13 games. After zero 20 point games in his first 19 he has 5 in his last 13 games. His first two came right after he went to the Bench.

If you look at advanced stats like game score his high before moving to the bench was 12.5, he has topped that 5 times now including a 27.5 game score.

This isn't Brown shooting well like the games you point out on 6, 7, and 9 attempts. This is Brown playing like last years playoffs and shooting awesome on high attempts, hence after no 20 point games in the first 19 he has 5 in his last 13.

Heck during this stretch just look at his two starts, one with Irving, one without him. 6 points vs 21, .333 shooting vs .600. It's just like last year Brown played better without Irving. Playoff Brown opened my eyes and raised my expectations. He did things I didn't think he could last year. We didn't see that player to he went to the bench to play with Hayward and Rozier.

Yes I’m not even gonna bother continuing. I don’t know how to even discuss someone telling me guys can’t cut or set screens for other cutters because a certain player has the ball. Other than a designed play, like at the end of the Philly game, we don’t see 4 guys on one side of the court watching Kyrie go ISO on the other. I thought we were getting somewhere...

I will gently suggest that we all try to move on from the Kyrie discussion. Understand and acknowledge that it continues to be an area of interest, but I think we've gotten to the "beating a dead horse" phase of things. At the very least, would appreciate if posters could please be mindful of not being overly repetitive and understanding that you don't have to reply to every post that you disagree with and that it's OK to just disagree. Thanks.

Impressive:

balldurham.com/2019/01/07/duke-basketball-tre-jones-making-history/


Good defensively too. Celtics pick with Clippers selection.

Jaylen DID look better in the two games without Kyrie. I don't think they like each other much.

He also looked better in the 3 games before that with Kyrie.

I know, I wasn't being serious (although JB is by all reports a nerd and Kyrie is a truther so that could spell trouble). It's been a maddening inconsistent season for Jaylen, it would help if he was able to struggle while not looking unplayable during his off nights.