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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 12, 2019 18:37:36 GMT -5
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,862
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Post by wcp3 on Jan 12, 2019 21:24:05 GMT -5
Not sure it’s possible to do worse at your job than Stevens has done this year.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Jan 12, 2019 22:20:20 GMT -5
Didn't watch, didn't listen, but it looked like an ugly ending. I think the season will run out well before Stevens figures out how to win consistently with this particular group of players. Too bad....
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 12, 2019 22:21:33 GMT -5
If the Celtics can't beat the Heat or Miami, then they are in a world of hurt in the playoffs.
This team needs another rebounder. Baynes being gone hurts. Horford got abused late in the 4th quarter. Vucevic has the ball in his hands all the time late in the 4th quarter.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Jan 12, 2019 22:38:20 GMT -5
If the Celtics can't beat the Heat or Miami, then they are in a world of hurt in the playoffs. This team needs another rebounder. Baynes being gone hurts. Horford got abused late in the 4th quarter. Vucevic has the ball in his hands all the time late in the 4th quarter. just "watching" the game on ESPN Gamecast, it looked like the Celtics just couldn't get important stops consistently over the last 7 minutes or so. Haywood with a -11, Theis -16, Rozier -20 on a shutout - nothing dropped with 5 shots in 17 minutes. 8 for 32 - 25% - on threes (Kyrie 0 for 5) - some real yuck in those stats. If the team thinks it can tread water and be middling going into the playoffs and then be able to just flick the switch to awesome, they are fooling themselves...and they will be out really quick. |
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Post by Don Caballero on Jan 12, 2019 23:36:42 GMT -5
Wow, ok how can you talk about young guys and include our oldest Vet? That's my whole point about it not just being the young guys. Do you know why I preach team ball Don? It gets you easier shots. Good team basketball helps get guys going. Nevermind we've seen Rozier and Brown both shoot like this before then catch fire and vice versa. Happend all playoff long, they just played team ball then though. No matter what happened we never stopped playing team ball. If your a PG and a guy like Brown is struggling. You seem to support the don't give him the ball approach. I think its the PG duty to help get him going, get him an easy shot, layup, dunk, etc. I don't think its the PGs duty to just stop passing and try and take over scoring. Hence why I think Irving needs to be a full-time SG. You worry too much about roles when it comes to Irving. He's their main scorer and he's going to do that playing PG or SG. He shoots quite a lot, but it's not insane and certainly not something that is beyond his talent level. There's plenty of opportunity for other guys, they just have to perform better. Team ball is only possible when guys are cutting inside and screening everywhere. For the past 2 games they just kind of stood around. That's not on Irving. That's on everyone (including Stevens). Morris is having a great season but I really wish Danny would try to move him for a big. This team needs size and needs someone that can play inside. Baynes is not that guy either. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 13, 2019 0:01:29 GMT -5
sports.yahoo.com/gordon-hayward-explains-happened-final-030804538.htmlCeltics down 1 when Irving enters for Rozier with 7:48 left in the game. Celtics end up losing by two. You look at the boxscore and it looks like the second unit lost the game. Yet down one, just about equal over half a quarter left, starters back in and they lose ground. Why? Maybe zero assists from the 7:48 mark when Irving entered till the end of the game. The Magic had 5 assists in that time. Not playing team ball, not even close. Then to make matters worse Irving is upset that Hayward didn't do exactly what he wanted. Like Hayward said Tatum is very good at that shot and it was a good attempt. Basketball is a team sport and this Celtic squad isn't a team. Not even close to it.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 13, 2019 0:17:13 GMT -5
Wow, ok how can you talk about young guys and include our oldest Vet? That's my whole point about it not just being the young guys. Do you know why I preach team ball Don? It gets you easier shots. Good team basketball helps get guys going. Nevermind we've seen Rozier and Brown both shoot like this before then catch fire and vice versa. Happend all playoff long, they just played team ball then though. No matter what happened we never stopped playing team ball. If your a PG and a guy like Brown is struggling. You seem to support the don't give him the ball approach. I think its the PG duty to help get him going, get him an easy shot, layup, dunk, etc. I don't think its the PGs duty to just stop passing and try and take over scoring. Hence why I think Irving needs to be a full-time SG. You worry too much about roles when it comes to Irving. He's their main scorer and he's going to do that playing PG or SG. He shoots quite a lot, but it's not insane and certainly not something that is beyond his talent level. There's plenty of opportunity for other guys, they just have to perform better. Team ball is only possible when guys are cutting inside and screening everywhere. For the past 2 games they just kind of stood around. That's not on Irving. That's on everyone (including Stevens). Morris is having a great season but I really wish Danny would try to move him for a big. This team needs size and needs someone that can play inside. Baynes is not that guy either. Guys can score and make others around them better, or they can do it in a way that makes the other players worse. No player on this team kills team ball like Irving can. Out of our three PGs he dominates the ball the most. I didn't watch tonights game, but against the Heat he did just that. Everyone sucks, I'm taking over. Our team isn't built to play that way. Either Irving plays our way or we need to make trades. If you want to play Irvings way you need a team like the Cavs. Full of shooters and a very good rebounding defensive big like a Thompson. Not a team full of slashers like Hayward, Tatum, Brown, and Rozier. They will never play to their potential in an Irving system this year. Heck maybe in time as they grown into Vets and evolve. Right now the best system is team ball. Just watch Smart and Rozier run the point and then Irving. Irving dominates the ball a ton, which means less passes. He can play our brand of ball in spurts, yet everytime things go bad or close games he reverts back to the old Irving. I go after Randle offering Morris and Rozier. He's an impact big that can score inside, rebound, and draw fouls. |
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,862
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Post by wcp3 on Jan 13, 2019 8:39:47 GMT -5
Lmaooooooo this has to be trolling. Edit: You’re talking about how much Irving kills ball movement in one post and then suggesting the Celtics trade for Randle in the next post. Have you read any of the scouting reports on Randle? Do you know what the biggest criticism of him is? |
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Post by Don Caballero on Jan 13, 2019 9:05:55 GMT -5
Guys can score and make others around them better, or they can do it in a way that makes the other players worse. No player on this team kills team ball like Irving can. Out of our three PGs he dominates the ball the most. I didn't watch tonights game, but against the Heat he did just that. Everyone sucks, I'm taking over. Our team isn't built to play that way. Either Irving plays our way or we need to make trades. If you want to play Irvings way you need a team like the Cavs. Full of shooters and a very good rebounding defensive big like a Thompson. Not a team full of slashers like Hayward, Tatum, Brown, and Rozier. They will never play to their potential in an Irving system this year. Heck maybe in time as they grown into Vets and evolve. Right now the best system is team ball. Just watch Smart and Rozier run the point and then Irving. Irving dominates the ball a ton, which means less passes. He can play our brand of ball in spurts, yet everytime things go bad or close games he reverts back to the old Irving. I go after Randle offering Morris and Rozier. He's an impact big that can score inside, rebound, and draw fouls. Then why aren't guys moving? Kyrie may dominate the ball (as he should because he's an elite scorer), but guys should move more to give him an option. It's not his fault the younger guys are still wildly inconsistent or that he plays on a small balling line-up that can't muscle anyone. You can talk about team ball all you want, it will not matter if guys are just standing around or getting bumped into oblivion for most of the plays on offense. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 13, 2019 10:11:50 GMT -5
I think Horford getting dominated in the paint was way more of a obvious flaw than anything else in last night's game. Everytime the Magic needed points, they went to Vucevic and he posted up Al like he was nothing.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Jan 13, 2019 12:14:46 GMT -5
Playing with stats, and this could be essentially meaningless - but in the 17 losses, Irving is high scorer in 11 - 65%
In the 25 wins, he is high scorer in 13 - 52%
I've not had time to look at his shooting percentages in the losses, or his percent of shots....
Beyond any impact Irving is having on the record, I am coming around to thinking that this team, as constructed, has a chemistry or structural problem - something is clearly amiss. Coaches always bear some of the responsibility, of course, but I just can't put much of the issue on Brad at this point.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 13, 2019 13:41:55 GMT -5
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 13, 2019 14:59:19 GMT -5
Guys can score and make others around them better, or they can do it in a way that makes the other players worse. No player on this team kills team ball like Irving can. Out of our three PGs he dominates the ball the most. I didn't watch tonights game, but against the Heat he did just that. Everyone sucks, I'm taking over. Our team isn't built to play that way. Either Irving plays our way or we need to make trades. If you want to play Irvings way you need a team like the Cavs. Full of shooters and a very good rebounding defensive big like a Thompson. Not a team full of slashers like Hayward, Tatum, Brown, and Rozier. They will never play to their potential in an Irving system this year. Heck maybe in time as they grown into Vets and evolve. Right now the best system is team ball. Just watch Smart and Rozier run the point and then Irving. Irving dominates the ball a ton, which means less passes. He can play our brand of ball in spurts, yet everytime things go bad or close games he reverts back to the old Irving. I go after Randle offering Morris and Rozier. He's an impact big that can score inside, rebound, and draw fouls. Then why aren't guys moving? Kyrie may dominate the ball (as he should because he's an elite scorer), but guys should move more to give him an option. It's not his fault the younger guys are still wildly inconsistent or that he plays on a small balling line-up that can't muscle anyone. You can talk about team ball all you want, it will not matter if guys are just standing around or getting bumped into oblivion for most of the plays on offense. Don why is there zero issues the last two years with team ball without Irving? This is all Irving trying to change the way we play at times. Irving when he goes on these spurts doesn't play team ball, its more of an iso game. So guys give him space, which he needs to work. You like Irving are complaining that the Celtics aren't mind readers and can't know when Irving actually wants to pass out of iso. Which doesn't happen that often. Your arguing the Celtics need to play better at Irvings game. When our best games are Irving playing well at the Celtics game. When Irving passes first and scores second we are a much better team. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 13, 2019 15:04:34 GMT -5
sports.yahoo.com/kyrie-irving-demands-more-young-044632071.htmlColor me confused these young guys that Irving said lack experience and hunger won two playoff series and 11 playoff games last year. Not once did they not play hard. Nevermind Irving hasn't been to the playoffs without LeBron and has zero playoff wins without LeBron. I'm so sick and tired of him acting like its our young guys. Like he's a proven leader that has lead a team to a championship. He's not LeBron and these young guys looked like the best young team in the league without him.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,862
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Post by wcp3 on Jan 13, 2019 18:32:05 GMT -5
I like Randle’s game a lot, but you can’t be harping on Kyrie for killing ball movement and then turn around and say the Celtics need Randle. As I mentioned earlier, some of the criticism of Kyrie is valid, but you clearly have an irrational dislike of him that makes you place too much blame on him. It’s time for you to admit that. |
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Post by Don Caballero on Jan 13, 2019 19:04:33 GMT -5
Don why is there zero issues the last two years with team ball without Irving? This is all Irving trying to change the way we play at times. Irving when he goes on these spurts doesn't play team ball, its more of an iso game. So guys give him space, which he needs to work. You like Irving are complaining that the Celtics aren't mind readers and can't know when Irving actually wants to pass out of iso. Which doesn't happen that often. Your arguing the Celtics need to play better at Irvings game. When our best games are Irving playing well at the Celtics game. When Irving passes first and scores second we are a much better team. My point is that they can do both. There are obviously multiple possessions on a game so there's plenty of space to play more than one offense. You can attack with Irving and you can use him as decoy and move the ball around. But there needs to be movement and a threat inside to go along with the outside shooting we all know the Cs have. The problem is they haven't been consistent on that plan and they get lazy and predictable at times. A bigger issue here might be Kyrie continuously throwing Tatum, Brown and Rozier under the bus (let's be honest here, he's talking about them). Something's fishy here, I feel like there's some locker room drama we don't know about. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 13, 2019 19:44:25 GMT -5
I like Randle’s game a lot, but you can’t be harping on Kyrie for killing ball movement and then turn around and say the Celtics need Randle. As I mentioned earlier, some of the criticism of Kyrie is valid, but you clearly have an irrational dislike of him that makes you place too much blame on him. It’s time for you to admit that. Why can't you? Morris is right behind Irving in stopping ball movement and not very good at creating. It would be a rather big upgrade. You act he Randle is some black hole low post player. He's actually one of the better passing bigs in the league. Having Randle and Horford would help team ball, not hurt it. There's nothing irrational about it. As a PG he has the ball a lot and it just gets magnified with Irving. Like Morris can do it, but he has the ball so much less that the impact is a lot less. It's why I want Irving to be a full-time SG. He'll still dominate the ball, yet somone else can make sure we run our offense and it makes him dominate the ball less. If that is irrational then a lot of people are that way towards Irving. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 13, 2019 20:03:12 GMT -5
Don why is there zero issues the last two years with team ball without Irving? This is all Irving trying to change the way we play at times. Irving when he goes on these spurts doesn't play team ball, its more of an iso game. So guys give him space, which he needs to work. You like Irving are complaining that the Celtics aren't mind readers and can't know when Irving actually wants to pass out of iso. Which doesn't happen that often. Your arguing the Celtics need to play better at Irvings game. When our best games are Irving playing well at the Celtics game. When Irving passes first and scores second we are a much better team. My point is that they can do both. There are obviously multiple possessions on a game so there's plenty of space to play more than one offense. You can attack with Irving and you can use him as decoy and move the ball around. But there needs to be movement and a threat inside to go along with the outside shooting we all know the Cs have. The problem is they haven't been consistent on that plan and they get lazy and predictable at times. A bigger issue here might be Kyrie continuously throwing Tatum, Brown and Rozier under the bus (let's be honest here, he's talking about them). Something's fishy here, I feel like there's some locker room drama we don't know about. I've never heard of a team using two totally different offensive systems. I think that is our problem, the main Celtics system and the way Irving wants to play. Like I said before unless the players are mind readers that is the issue. They have no clue what Irving is doing. He just scaps our system and plays his way. His way is mainly iso where he shoots must of the time. Gotta stick to the Celtic plays that the guys now. Maybe with a LeBron Irving could just go off script and it worked. We don't have a LeBron. Our team isn't built to play iso ball. That's the beginning of the year trying to make our slashers jump shooters. It doesn't work. You really gotta pick Celtic ball or ISO ball. Irving talks about our young guys needing experience, yet its like he needs a ton in how to be a leader and best player on the team. All of our other vets are careful about what they say, not calling guys out unlike Irving. If I am Rozier, Tatum, and Brown I'm really upset everytime theres an issue, Irving is blaming them. Acting like what they did last year means nothing and only he knows what they need to do. Acting like if they dog one play that is the issue, like all players don't dog a few plays. It should be tough love, not throw them under the bus type crap. Or at minimum stop telling the press and keep it in house. It's like once a week those guys have to hear about Irving bashing them from the press. Not good. |
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Post by Don Caballero on Jan 14, 2019 17:32:43 GMT -5
So Kyrie came out publicly and said he won't question his teammates like that again. Good for him, great for us. I was very disappointed in how he frequently criticizes the Brown, Tatum and Rozier trio and now I'm very encouraged to see he's learning as well.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,862
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Post by wcp3 on Jan 14, 2019 20:11:10 GMT -5
I continue to be fooored at how bad of a job Stevens has done with such a talented roster.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,862
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Post by wcp3 on Jan 14, 2019 21:03:03 GMT -5
Brad Stevens is getting completely exposed as a coach this year. Just incompetence at the highest degree.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 14, 2019 21:33:42 GMT -5
Brad Stevens is getting completely exposed as a coach this year. Just incompetence at the highest degree. And he had his good team tonight |
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Post by soxfansince67 on Jan 14, 2019 21:47:20 GMT -5
Just finished watching a remarkable Duke game- Syracuse pulled off quite a victory (Jones going down with an injury at the 6 min mark and Reddish out sick left them really short, but...no excuses. Great job by Syracuse beating a still strong Duke team at Cameron).
What the hell is going on with the Celts game tonight? I know Smart and Irving are out - but Haywood and Rozier looking like they are really laying an egg. Can't listen or watch, so just watching the box score now.
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Post by sarasoxer on Jan 14, 2019 22:02:07 GMT -5
If you had watched.....you would have gone blind. Horrible. Hayward is nowhere near the player he once was. Rozier .... Woof.
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