mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Mar 25, 2019 12:58:38 GMT -5
Danny must be losing sleep over the whole Kyrie thing. Do you make him the face of the franchise and pay him max $$? What seemed like an easy/obvious answer for the past few years has become a rather huge decision. How deflating it would be to lose him for nothing. Seems like Danny might have finally lost a trade. Been an interesting season, it will be an interesting off season. I think the team is in a worse position than it has been for a long time. There is not a clear path to get better without Kyrie (unless Brown/Tatum somehow get back on their previous development path) and I don't think a Kyrie/Hayward/Davis/Smart/  ? team is an appreciable step forward. The protections on the first rounders always made them a crap shoot and they just aren't going to be as valuable as they could have been. Every single asset they have (including the coach) has deteriorated in value this season through draft position, age, performance or whackadoodle behavior. |
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Post by jimed14 on Mar 25, 2019 16:21:00 GMT -5
They were within one game of the finals last season without Kyrie. Why can't they win without him?
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Mar 25, 2019 17:08:17 GMT -5
Any team with Davis is a massive step forward. The question becomes whether or not it’s a title contender, but there are too many mitigating factors to answer that right now.
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ianrs
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Post by ianrs on Mar 25, 2019 18:00:46 GMT -5
They were within one game of the finals last season without Kyrie. Why can't they win without him? In short, because the East is better than it was and still improving. Not to mention Horford is aging very fast. |
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Mar 25, 2019 18:36:31 GMT -5
Any team with Davis is a massive step forward. The question becomes whether or not it’s a title contender, but there are too many mitigating factors to answer that right now. I guess the lack of success of Davis and a plus PG in Holiday over the past few years makes me worry that bleeding depth to get him will put us closer to Pellies East than a leap over everyone else. |
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Post by texs31 on Mar 25, 2019 20:33:52 GMT -5
Is Holiday really a PG? I know he covers PGs but I believe he lines up next to traditional ball handlers quite often. Rondo last year. Payton was the intended partner this year but has only managed 33 games due to injury. Still . . .
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Post by soxfansince67 on Mar 25, 2019 22:22:57 GMT -5
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 26, 2019 10:38:33 GMT -5
So what happened with Baynes? Heard out till playoffs maybe longer and he was playing like 4 days later. Some good news for once.
Is Irving anymore of a PG than Holiday? The thing with Iving and Davis is they don't seem to make players around them better. Great talents, yet do you really want two of them on the same team? Like name another guy seen as a top 5 player in his prime, with guys like Randle, Holiday, Morictic, etc that can't even make the playoffs. I love Davis, but Davis and Irving seems like a bad pairing. You'd become the Houston Rockets, just a bunch of iso basketball and I hate that. Last year showed you the power of team Basketball.
Take away Irving we still have one of the best young cores in the league. Guys like Tatum and Brown are years away from their primes. We still have a bunch of picks to find a future big. Nevermind the East will age, those teams aren't built with 21 year old players and I don't see dominate Warrior like teams you can't beat. Heck this mess of a team has done rather well against the top teams.
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Post by texs31 on Mar 26, 2019 10:43:20 GMT -5
Admittedly, I watch ZERO Pelican games. So my statement was based off of reports (he's said he prefers to play off the ball), lineups (next to Rondo and Payton who are 100% PGs) and just watching Irving (majority of the time, ball is in his hands to initiate the offense). Not scientific, for sure.
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Post by Don Caballero on Mar 26, 2019 13:50:54 GMT -5
Everyone who has watched Celtics basketball knows the offense should star Brown and Tatum. They're one of the most dynamic young duos in the league. Yeah they're inconsistent, but they're so damn young you live with that. Instead they're relegated to "leftover" offense, like you know early in the quarter and then they'll disappear and watch the action from the corner while Irving or Smart handle the ball forever with very little ball movement. It's so irritating to watch Tatum deliver a nice play and then go missing for several possessions, don't even get me started on Brown's minutes. Point is, Stevens isn't a moron and yet every sign thus far on this season point at that direction. Which to me says there's been some sh*t we don't know about. I don't even mean Kyrie being a bad leader or guys not being particularly fond of each other, I think some monumental sh*t happened. Like someone banged someone's girlfriend. Something happened. |
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Mar 26, 2019 13:51:53 GMT -5
Take away Irving we still have one of the best young cores in the league. Guys like Tatum and Brown are years away from their primes. We still have a bunch of picks to find a future big. Nevermind the East will age, those teams aren't built with 21 year old players and I don't see dominate Warrior like teams you can't beat. Heck this mess of a team has done rather well against the top teams. But now Horford/Hayward don't fit the team. They haven't figured out a good Hayward/Brown/Tatum/Smart (God, let's forget Morris plz) balance yet, and their collective swings between over-deference and ball-hogging have killed the offense. Horford is a fit for any team, but his cap to value is getting really tough to justify. I guess if Hayward is used in spurts as a ball handler, Tatum stops settling for long 2s, and JB can find an offensive groove (like we all thought would happen 6 months ago) there's still a lot of potential with that trio. But nothing from this season has shown it. Still, put me down for that plus picks bevy over the Kyrie/Davis train. Agree Tatum/Brown/other picks present a better path to sustained success. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 26, 2019 14:21:52 GMT -5
Everyone who has watched Celtics basketball knows the offense should star Brown and Tatum. They're one of the most dynamic young duos in the league. Yeah they're inconsistent, but they're so damn young you live with that. Instead they're relegated to "leftover" offense, like you know early in the quarter and then they'll disappear and watch the action from the corner while Irving or Smart handle the ball forever with very little ball movement. It's so irritating to watch Tatum deliver a nice play and then go missing for several possessions, don't even get me started on Brown's minutes. Point is, Stevens isn't a moron and yet every sign thus far on this season point at that direction. Which to me says there's been some sh*t we don't know about. I don't even mean Kyrie being a bad leader or guys not being particularly fond of each other, I think some monumental sh*t happened. Like someone banged someone's girlfriend. Something happened. Thanks for the laugh 😁 |
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Post by voiceofreason on Mar 26, 2019 14:37:58 GMT -5
Maybe some one did, they definitely don't play like a team that likes each other.
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Mar 26, 2019 20:00:45 GMT -5
It’s literally beyond belief Morris is playing so much more than Jaylen.
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Post by Don Caballero on Mar 26, 2019 21:58:25 GMT -5
It’s literally beyond belief Morris is playing so much more than Jaylen. I don't know man, usually I'd be upset but lately I'm finding every Celtics win to be blissful. Enjoy them while they come I guess. On the other hand, Morris played THIRTY MINUTES and Jaylen played less than 20. Stevens is hard to defend right now, this is bullsh*t. Back on that first thought, I've accepted this issue will only be fixed when Morris is out of here. On very related news, the Celtics move up to 597-1 when Kyrie Irving doesn't play. |
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Post by soxfansince67 on Mar 26, 2019 22:07:03 GMT -5
When Kyrie doesn't play, we have a very balanced offense. This game is just another data point. I love watching him as a player...but not on our team (!!).
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Post by Don Caballero on Mar 27, 2019 11:38:59 GMT -5
When Kyrie doesn't play, we have a very balanced offense. This game is just another data point. I love watching him as a player...but not on our team (!!). He's not our guy. Kyrie is the best player in the roster by far, but he just isn't our guy. Not saying that can't lead to something good, Kevin Durant visibly doesn't fit with the Warriors and they got 2 championships. If only Rozier was just a bit more polished, like a more consistent shooter and an actually good finisher at the rim. |
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Post by sarasoxer on Mar 28, 2019 8:30:08 GMT -5
IMO, Smart is a better, quicker player this season. To me he has lost some bulk and while still being the usual defensive bulwark, the slim down has afforded him greater agility. His shot from deep looks more fluid, less seemingly constricted and he has a more varied offensive game. He is the guy that has made a leap this year....not Rozier, not Tatum, not Brown.
I think Tatum came into the league more mature, more advanced in his game than most. I wonder about his upside.
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Post by Don Caballero on Mar 28, 2019 13:59:47 GMT -5
I think Tatum came into the league more mature, more advanced in his game than most. I wonder about his upside. I wonder about that too, especially considering Tatum lacks top end explosion. He's always going to be a slow guy with a herky jerky offensive game. That's nice if he develops a couple of go to moves, but right now he's a bit predictable. He's definitely a work in progress. Brown still has a higher ceiling though. |
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Post by Don Caballero on Mar 29, 2019 20:34:10 GMT -5
Great effort there near the end but damn me if Kyrie didn't try his best to lose this game.
One thing to notice and maybe it's nothing and I'm paranoid, but I think I saw Kyrie shaking his head as Brad was calling that final play. Then it clearly went into scramble mode and Kyrie mentioned on the interview that it wasn't what they drew up. I think that play was designed for Horford and Indiana saw it, but messed up the defense. It's been a disjointed season on every level for sure.
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Post by voiceofreason on Mar 30, 2019 9:09:11 GMT -5
Who would have guessed that the C's would have the same record as the Clippers this year?
If that isn't bad enough who would have predicted the Kings would deliver the 13th or 14th pick in the draft?
And now it looks like the Grizzlies may end up giving the C's the 9th pick in the draft. They seem to be the only team tanking that isn't really tanking.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 30, 2019 10:55:21 GMT -5
I certainly never thought the Kings would be this good, yet I kept saying they could easily not give us a top pick like everyone thought. Years and years of high picks mean you have to be a horrible GM for your team to not greatly improve.
The Grizz are harder depending what they do. Yet veterans like JV and Bradley fit that team like a glove. Add Conley, Jackson and if they hit on a rookie again. That isn't a bad team at all next year. While it would suck the 9th pick might not be worse case scenario crap either.
Watching Duke Jones impresses me. He's not special, yet he's smart, runs a good offense, plays good D and just seems like the glue on that team.
I'm kinda shocked that Duke has no depth though. No Reddish and it was literally 3 guys. Bolden was an over active defender, made a few plays. Yet nothing really in terms of depth and it almost cost them in both games.
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Post by voiceofreason on Mar 30, 2019 13:09:50 GMT -5
I read something earlier this year about how the Kings had no reason to tank so they could be better than expected, turns out to be prophetic. Says am lot about the level of tanking.
I really don't like the idea of 4 1st round picks, it would be a lot better to spread them out especially with this team. Danny has the assets to make some noise, should be interesting.
Duke is thin and getting lucky we will see just how far Zion can take them, he needs to shoot more.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 30, 2019 13:47:35 GMT -5
You certainly don't want four first round picks, heck we don't need three. Yet while certainly not ideal, the 9th pick from the Grizz isn't the worst outcome I can see happening either.
This draft is also intriguing in that range. Looks like a deep draft, so it gives you a lot of options.
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Post by Don Caballero on Mar 30, 2019 16:19:07 GMT -5
9th gives us a shot at Coby White, doesn't it? Seriously he would fit in beautifully playing next to Kyrie.
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? team is an appreciable step forward. The protections on the first rounders always made them a crap shoot and they just aren't going to be as valuable as they could have been. Every single asset they have (including the coach) has deteriorated in value this season through draft position, age, performance or whackadoodle behavior. 
