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2019 Patriots Offseason Thread
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Mar 1, 2019 12:34:19 GMT -5
Hightower tried to get a better deal but the only deal that was close was the Jets and due to New York's cost of living and tax situation, the difference was negligible.
McCourty is a rare example of Bill raising his price at the last minute, he may have realized it may have been a slight overpay, but sometimes it can be worth it to overpay a little bit. There aren't many cases of that in Bill's nearly two decade tenure here.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 1, 2019 12:41:21 GMT -5
Considering you meet with way more players than you can draft and you can’t meet with everyone you’re interested in, it’s obviously the case that most of the guy you meet with won’t get drafted. It helps them gather information. The Patriots have a lot stricter standard for a players mental make up than most teams so it stands to reason they eliminate a lot of guys thru these talks. They’ve met with a lot of linemen thus far, I don’t think that’s to try and fool other teams. Quite frankly, other teams aren’t paying much attention to who’s meeting with who nor should they. Last four drafts they have only picked two players they knowingly meet with, the reports your going off of. Last year they met with more DE than any other position and took none of them. Bill has said he uses those meeting to get a lot of info on guys they won't draft, but could later trade for or sign as free agents. Maybe they want an OT, yet your almost better off looking at who they aren't meeting with. Example they didn't meet with Wynn last year, but did meet with a bunch of other top OTs. You can certainly think whatever you want, but every team is paying attention to everything all the other teams do. It's why you hear we think team X was taking that player so we jumped above them. You see it every year. So much of the draft process is getting through the smoke to find the fires. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 1, 2019 13:00:45 GMT -5
Hightower tried to get a better deal but the only deal that was close was the Jets and due to New York's cost of living and tax situation, the difference was negligible. McCourty is a rare example of Bill raising his price at the last minute, he may have realized it may have been a slight overpay, but sometimes it can be worth it to overpay a little bit. There aren't many cases of that in Bill's nearly two decade tenure here. The two deals weren't even close. The Jets deal topped out at almost 30 million more. Now the details after differ, Hightower said he used the Jets to get more from the Patriots and always wanted to stay, Jets say they walked away after the physical. Believe whatever you want, but they paid market rate for a good defensive player. You can't deny that, he's one of the highest paid LBers in the game. They aren't going to keep Flowers if some team goes crazy and offers him a 100 million. That's a lot different than they have no chance to resign him and won't pay big money. |
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Mar 1, 2019 14:07:06 GMT -5
Its funny how if you only look at Hightower's regular season production, he is overpaid, but if you add in his post season production, he has been a good deal. Not many guys fit that category I feel like.
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Post by voiceofreason on Mar 1, 2019 16:25:13 GMT -5
John Simon could be the current day version of Mike Vrabel and Rob Ninkovich. Came in this year and played 5 days after joining the team in late Sept, played more as the season went on and even more in the playoffs. Give him an off season and he will be even better.
Former defensive POY in Big ten, just like Vrabel at OSU. What another diamond in the rough find that would be. I'm guessing Pats lock him up soon, real soon.
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Post by voiceofreason on Mar 1, 2019 16:40:09 GMT -5
The Pats have 12 picks this year. Do you really think 12 rookies will make the team? BB knows that's impossible, so trading some of the picks for either veteran players and/or future picks will be his game plan. He might not even keep his 1st round pick, depending who is available at 32. He has enough draft capital to do anything he wants. If I was the rest of the league, I would be afraid. Belichick's unparalleled job security allows him to be patient and trade for future picks in a way new coaches can't afford to do, because they have to turn things around quickly. Some years it doesn't work out, like last year Bill traded a 2018 second for a 2019 second that will end up being a worse pick, but most of the time, they're able to get better future picks for trading out of a slot where none of their guys are there in that range anyway. BB is hard to predict, is their a player he likes enough to move up for using some of those extra picks? Yeah never know. But you are most likely correct some of those picks will be pushed off to next year as that is what he does. And I also find it hard to believe that they can add many rookies to next years team, especially if you consider their is 2018 1st, 2nd and 5th Bentley will all be back healthy. This draft is supposed to be strong where the Pats have picks so it is a good problem to have. When the Pats made those trades for the 2nd round they also got an extra pick so it wasn't completely a loser by swapping 2018 to 2019. |
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Post by voiceofreason on Mar 1, 2019 16:45:04 GMT -5
Pats could get lucky and sign a veteran who has never won and wants a chance so will play for less. Not unheard of, anybody come to mind umass or rjp? Tate?
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 2, 2019 6:07:02 GMT -5
Pats could get lucky and sign a veteran who has never won and wants a chance so will play for less. Not unheard of, anybody come to mind umass or rjp? Tate? Tate and Cameron Wake come to mind. No reason for me to think Wake wants to come on shorter pay but he’s older - still effective and has never won |
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 2, 2019 8:33:48 GMT -5
Couple interesting notes on potential Patriots WR targets:
Andy Isabella - Hand size 8 3/8 - pretty small
Deebow Samuel - 10”
Riley Ridley - 10 1/8”
Hunter Renfrow 7 7/8” really small
Ridley and Samuel have huge hands whereas the others have really small hands, especially Renfrow. Should help him drop further. Isabella is a burner - might be a second round option. The other two may not be available in the second for the Pats... those hands are impressive. We will see.
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 2, 2019 9:17:44 GMT -5
You can do your own mock draft at draftnetwork... the player rankings need to be updated - maybe they are waiting for after the combine, but I did the first 4 rounds for the Pats and this is what I got. Scharping is a G/T so I felt his value was too good there and Mack after taking Tillery wasn’t ideal but I felt he had really good value and we love to rotate the Dline. Jones was still there, which is possible, and I feel like his mental ability and supposed work ethic are very Patriot like.  |
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Post by texs31 on Mar 2, 2019 11:48:06 GMT -5
Patriots releasing Allen. May re-sign him but he's free for now.
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Post by voiceofreason on Mar 2, 2019 13:06:06 GMT -5
Out there prediction, Jarrett Stidham QB 2nd pick.
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Post by voiceofreason on Mar 2, 2019 13:08:34 GMT -5
Patriots releasing Allen. May re-sign him but he's free for now. I could see him coming back on the cheap as he is a very good blocker but Pats should see what they get in the draft. Maybe they get someone who is more of a risk catching the ball. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 2, 2019 13:31:25 GMT -5
Out of all the WRs I'm interested in, only Boykins in doing the combine. Like WTF, since when do second to late round picks skip the combine? Boykins is blowing up dominating the combine, yet I wanted to compare him to Ridley and Whiteside.
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 2, 2019 13:59:27 GMT -5
Out of all the WRs I'm interested in, only Boykins in doing the combine. Like WTF, since when do second to late round picks skip the combine? Boykins is blowing up dominating the combine, yet I wanted to compare him to Ridley and Whiteside. Probably because they know running a 40 is kind of dumb. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 2, 2019 14:00:09 GMT -5
Patriots releasing Allen. May re-sign him but he's free for now. Probably the most predictable move of the offseason. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 2, 2019 14:29:21 GMT -5
Out of all the WRs I'm interested in, only Boykins in doing the combine. Like WTF, since when do second to late round picks skip the combine? Boykins is blowing up dominating the combine, yet I wanted to compare him to Ridley and Whiteside. Probably because they know running a 40 is kind of dumb. Let me guess you think Jerry Rice really was a 4.71 40 guy don't you? Range matters because if Jerry Rice was really that slow he wouldn't have been the best WR of his time. Nevermind it gives you a second chance. Blow the combine, you can do it again at your pro day, like Jerry Rice did. No combine, then a bad pro day and you could tank your value. It's not an end all and I won't change a players range, yet it helps determine where in that range he'll go. Nevermind I use 40, max vert, and 3 cone drill for WRs. Every player will run the 40, it just combine or pro day. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 2, 2019 14:55:42 GMT -5
Probably because they know running a 40 is kind of dumb. Let me guess you think Jerry Rice really was a 4.71 40 guy don't you? Range matters because if Jerry Rice was really that slow he wouldn't have been the best WR of his time. Nevermind it gives you a second chance. Blow the combine, you can do it again at your pro day, like Jerry Rice did. No combine, then a bad pro day and you could tank your value. It's not an end all and I won't change a players range, yet it helps determine where in that range he'll go. Nevermind I use 40, max vert, and 3 cone drill for WRs. Every player will run the 40, it just combine or pro day. I complete agree it affects a guys value. It just really shouldn’t. It doesn’t prove football field speed. Obviously, it tells you a little something but Antonio Brown ran a 4.57 and Landry ran something over 4.7. Ones just a meh time and the other is god awful and they are both great. On the flip. Every year receivers get over drafted based off of a great 40 and they end up being terrible. Point is focusing on a guys 40 is a fools errand. Not everyone does but way too many people do. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 2, 2019 15:25:01 GMT -5
Let me guess you think Jerry Rice really was a 4.71 40 guy don't you? Range matters because if Jerry Rice was really that slow he wouldn't have been the best WR of his time. Nevermind it gives you a second chance. Blow the combine, you can do it again at your pro day, like Jerry Rice did. No combine, then a bad pro day and you could tank your value. It's not an end all and I won't change a players range, yet it helps determine where in that range he'll go. Nevermind I use 40, max vert, and 3 cone drill for WRs. Every player will run the 40, it just combine or pro day. I complete agree it affects a guys value. It just really shouldn’t. It doesn’t prove football field speed. Obviously, it tells you a little something but Antonio Brown ran a 4.57 and Landry ran something over 4.7. Ones just a meh time and the other is god awful and they are both great. On the flip. Every year receivers get over drafted based off of a great 40 and they end up being terrible. Point is focusing on a guys 40 is a fools errand. Not everyone does but way too many people do. See those guys are just like Rice you state combine numbers but totally overlook the 4.48 and 4.51 40's those guys ran at their pro-days. Those aren't bad numbers at all and is my point. Speed matters. I don't care if a guy runs a slow 40 one time, yet if Landry really couldn't run faster than 4.7 he wouldn't be who he is right now. At the same time if you take that Ohio State WR and now pick him in the top 15 because he runs 4.3 you're a moron. If you take Boykins in the first round because he ran 4.42 at 6'3" 225 you are a moron. Yet a guy like Boykins should be in play round 2-3 now and that makes sense. He looked fast at Notre Dame, yet Books weak arm hurt him a ton. |
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Post by texs31 on Mar 2, 2019 16:12:54 GMT -5
Whether it matters in football or not aside, the fact that Isabella's time was corrected (laser issue) from 4.56 to 4.27 is gonna help him.
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Post by jimed14 on Mar 2, 2019 16:17:46 GMT -5
I don't even get how running from a dead stop for 40 yards is even an NFL skill. Great, it will tell you if they have break away speed if they can ever get into that position, but that is the only thing it tells you. It doesn't tell you if the guy can get open or run a route or catch a ball or read defenses or use proper footwork. 10 yard, 20 yard shuttle and 3 cone drill is worth a lot more. Someone like Edelman has mediocre 40 yard times, but is probably one of the best at 3 cone and that's why he gets open so easily. And that's always who the Pats will lean towards because that's who works best with Brady.
Just looked it up and he was 97th percentile in 20 yard shuttle, 94th in 3 cone and 45th in 40 yard.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 2, 2019 17:04:39 GMT -5
Edelman ran a 4.51 40 and he was a QB at the time. Wouldn't be surprised if that went up as he worked as a WR. That would have been top 15 among WR if he was invited to the combine.
Sure certain skills matter more depending what position you play at WR. Edelman almost never runs 30 and 40 yard deep routes, yet outside guys do.
It matters because you just don't see elite WRs that don't run good 40 times. They don't need to be elite, but they need to be good. Athletes are athletes, like is there a WR that can run 4.7 40 and be elite at the 3 cone drill? I know the reverse is true, but I don't think it goes both ways.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 2, 2019 21:23:43 GMT -5
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 3, 2019 7:52:20 GMT -5
The picture of him cemented him into the first round and his 40 probability pushed him top 10. Good news for Patriots. Just saw his 3 cone drill was 7.38.. which I believe is pretty bad. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 3, 2019 10:27:59 GMT -5
Yea 7.38 isn't that good, then again he's not a slot guy. Not even close.
My boy Miles Boykins currently has the best 3 cone time for WRs at 6.77. Given his size that's crazy impressive. Also currently has the second fastest 20 yard time to that Ohio State burner.
Frankly for the Patriots a team that loves 3 cone times the group of WR isn't good. Renfrew was good at 6.8, but Samuel 7.03, Ridley 7.22, Isabella 6.95 kinda disappointed. Especially Ridley given his production, now a very poor combine. His numbers kinda back up his lack of production.
Fant was the top TE by a mile at 6.81, Kaden Smith was impressive at 7.08, Irv Smith wasn't at 7.32.
This years Edelman looks like QB Easton Stick. 6'1" 224 4.62 40, 6.65 3 cone, 4.05 20 yard. Those are impressive numbers given his size. He's not a QB in the NFL, yet WR, maybe safety, heck special team player. He screams Patriot pick in the late rounds.
Guys in that 4-7 range at WR that had good 3 cone times Stanley Morgan WR Nebraska and Cody Thompson WR Toledo.
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