SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
2019 Patriots Offseason Thread
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Mar 19, 2019 15:00:37 GMT -5
100K workout and 50*16 = 800 per game in Volin's follow up. EDIT: Not sure what the rest of the 600K bonuses are based on. My guess will be snap percentage that’s the other bonus they use a lot. |
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Mar 19, 2019 15:03:05 GMT -5
I find it extremely odd that Simmons keeps getting mocked to the Patriots. I can’t imagine they’d take on a guy with his off the field past. Domestic violence is something they are scared from the Christian Peter fiasco.
|
|
mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 3,044
|
Post by mobaz on Mar 19, 2019 15:11:06 GMT -5
I find it extremely odd that Simmons keeps getting mocked to the Patriots. I can’t imagine they’d take on a guy with his off the field past. Domestic violence is something they are scared from the Christian Peter fiasco. Has the Chiefs written all over him. |
|
|
|
Post by texs31 on Mar 19, 2019 15:42:00 GMT -5
FWIW, based on their contracts, Volin thinks Simon, Bolden and Brooks are locks to make the team. Pennel is a good bet and Ellington and Harris are long-shots.
|
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 19, 2019 15:56:07 GMT -5
Well when looking at draft prospects fit is only one part of the equation. Frankly that's the easiest one. Value and ranking is the hardest part to nailing mock drafts.
Now WR is our biggest need by a mile right now. What is the prototypical Patriot WR? They love quick, change of direction slot WRs. 3 cone drill time is a common theme with almost every WR they bring in recently. They like outside WR that can be a deep threat, but also work underneath. So much of our offense is short quick routes. So they like guys that can get open quickly, but also make defenders miss. Make plays in space. These guys need to be able to run good routes and a big route tree, get open and probably more than anything catch the darn ball.
This draft is filled with massive big outside WRs that don't move well in space and have little change of direction. Guys like Metcalf, Harry, Harmon, Butler, Hurd, Arcega-Whiteside, Humphrey's etc. It's all about size, physical play and contested catches for those guys, well expect Metcalf. A bunch of them intrigue me at certain points in the draft, but they are the type of guys we have stayed away from for almost two decades. They are also huge boom or bust guys.
You then have your guys that can be slot or outside guys Marquise Brown,A.J Brown, Samuel, Ridley, Campbell, Boykins,Johnson, Morgan Jr., Isabella, etc. Heck even Ratlif-Wilson is an interesting player because he's a jack of all trades type guy.
Your true slot guys and I will note certain people think guys in the list above might be pure slot guys, but they don't agree. Your Hunter Renrow, Ryan Davis, Cody Thompson, Penny Hart, etc.
Then your burners, fast outside guys, but questions about being good slot guys. Terry McLaurin, Emanuel Hall, Alex Wesley, Mecole Hardman, Darius Slayton, David Stills etc.
This is far from an all inclusive list, just more of a quick outline showing the different options and some of the depth of the class.
Just my two cents but if your targeting a guy in round two he should be in that second group and heck a bunch of those guys will go after round two, some a lot later in the draft.
Which brings me back to Terry McLaurin. Pluses he's fast, played four years at a major program, special team player, team captain, very hard worker, ok size. The minuses he's raw, was only a deep threat, limited route tree, route running was very inconsistent, small hands, body catcher, small catch radius, and overall lack of production outside those big broken plays and while he's not a stiff by any means he doesn't have close to any elite change of direction or quick-twitch athletic traits. He's a little bit bigger Dorsett, yet has smaller hands and lacks Dorsetts elite change of direction skills. I bet he's on our board, first we have to take a few WRs so I'm assuming the WR board will be bigger than normal. Second most of those traits they'll love aren't his WR skills, it's everything else. Which is why where you pick him really matters. Whole lot of projecting with him that he's a lot better player than he showed at Ohio State taking him in the second. Especially when you can't point to a guy like him doing well in the Patriot system. Those outside guys with limited route trees have been horrible for us in Bethel Johnson, Chad Jackson, and Aaron Dobson.
I love Miles Boykins. A perfect fit for us at outside WR, because he can also play the slot. You can't ask for a better overall athlete or a bigger catch radius. He's very unique in that very few guys his size can run, jump, and move vertically like he can. Yet he needs to refine his route running, be more physical and he's not great after the catch. I'd love to mock him at pick 32, yet it's bad value and you can't let things like the senior bowl and combine blow up your draft boards like that. So he's a round two guy for me, would jump up and down if you got him in round three. The biggest draft plunders of all-time are guys skyrocketing up draft boards because of workouts and the combine when the tape didn't agree.
|
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 19, 2019 17:01:52 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by philarhody on Mar 19, 2019 17:32:28 GMT -5
It’s a tough call because he was 17 when the event occurred and Mississippi State is going to say he’s been the second coming since arriving on campus. Family stuff gets weird. Him teaming up on a woman with his aunt is horrific, but isn’t in the same stratosphere as what Tyreek Hill or Ray Rice were convicte of (mercilessly pummeling their wives). I’m of the opinion that Kareem Hunt should be in the league. Greg Hardy should not have been reinstated. These cases aren’t all the same. Simmons is a tough call. A 17 year old man child involving himself in a fight with his aunt should not be defined by stupid violence for the rest of his life. Aaron Hernandez was shooting people outside Gainesville clubs and never showed up for class, so I wouldn’t be shocked if NE takes a chance on Simmons |
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Mar 19, 2019 19:03:03 GMT -5
It’s a tough call because he was 17 when the event occurred and Mississippi State is going to say he’s been the second coming since arriving on campus. Family stuff gets weird. Him teaming up on a woman with his aunt is horrific, but isn’t in the same stratosphere as what Tyreek Hill or Ray Rice were convicte of (mercilessly pummeling their wives). I’m of the opinion that Kareem Hunt should be in the league. Greg Hardy should not have been reinstated. These cases aren’t all the same. Simmons is a tough call. A 17 year old man child involving himself in a fight with his aunt should not be defined by stupid violence for the rest of his life. Aaron Hernandez was shooting people outside Gainesville clubs and never showed up for class, so I wouldn’t be shocked if NE takes a chance on Simmons Videos change everything also, Christian Peter is remembered vividly by the Krafts. I agree with your second chance view though, just don’t think it’s in the Patriots cards |
|
|
|
Post by texs31 on Mar 19, 2019 19:30:14 GMT -5
Recently released Bengal LB is signing with the Raiders.
Of course he is.
|
|
|
|
Post by voiceofreason on Mar 19, 2019 20:01:01 GMT -5
Yeah, they really do need to nail this draft. I don't worry about the AFC East, but I do think KC is not far off from being a real force in the AFC. Mahomes is great and I think he has better days ahead of him. Andy Reid will always be outcoached in big games. If Mahomes is some kind of genius like Manning or Brady, then he could overcome it, but that's asking a lot. The Chiefs came within 1 stupid lining up offsides call of winning this year. |
|
|
|
Post by voiceofreason on Mar 19, 2019 20:08:52 GMT -5
I find it extremely odd that Simmons keeps getting mocked to the Patriots. I can’t imagine they’d take on a guy with his off the field past. Domestic violence is something they are scared from the Christian Peter fiasco. He was defending his sister, makes it a little different. I don't care who it was attacking my sister I might throw a few punches. |
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 19, 2019 23:19:05 GMT -5
It’s a tough call because he was 17 when the event occurred and Mississippi State is going to say he’s been the second coming since arriving on campus. Family stuff gets weird. Him teaming up on a woman with his aunt is horrific, but isn’t in the same stratosphere as what Tyreek Hill or Ray Rice were convicte of (mercilessly pummeling their wives). I’m of the opinion that Kareem Hunt should be in the league. Greg Hardy should not have been reinstated. These cases aren’t all the same. Simmons is a tough call. A 17 year old man child involving himself in a fight with his aunt should not be defined by stupid violence for the rest of his life. Aaron Hernandez was shooting people outside Gainesville clubs and never showed up for class, so I wouldn’t be shocked if NE takes a chance on Simmons I don't agree at all. From what I remember Ray Rices GF attacked him, he just reacted and one punch knocked her out. They were both crazy drunk and she went on to marry him. That is crazy bad, but that video is worse in my opinion. He's not just reacting or protecting himself, he's on top of a girl on the ground giving her a big combo plate of punches while she is in a fetal position. Then his family follows the girl around talking more smack to her. Maybe we missed something in the beginning, yet that looks awful. That's the worst video I've seen of Ray Rice, Hunt, and Mixon. They were all dealing with crazy aggressive women coming at them. It's all crazy wrong given how big these guys are. I'm a big believer in second chances for most people. I'm not saying he should be out of the league, but I'm not drafting him either. Would I give him a training camp invite? Maybe, but he's off my dratt board. Send a message that costs him millions. I'm going to take your Hernandez comments as a Joke because no one knew he was that guy. Tons of red flags, got in trouble a lot, lots of weed, killing was a shock to most people. It's also why I remove Simmons from my board. I don't take any chances with major red flags and that is a major one. |
|
|
|
Post by philarhody on Mar 20, 2019 1:06:58 GMT -5
It’s a tough call because he was 17 when the event occurred and Mississippi State is going to say he’s been the second coming since arriving on campus. Family stuff gets weird. Him teaming up on a woman with his aunt is horrific, but isn’t in the same stratosphere as what Tyreek Hill or Ray Rice were convicte of (mercilessly pummeling their wives). I’m of the opinion that Kareem Hunt should be in the league. Greg Hardy should not have been reinstated. These cases aren’t all the same. Simmons is a tough call. A 17 year old man child involving himself in a fight with his aunt should not be defined by stupid violence for the rest of his life. Aaron Hernandez was shooting people outside Gainesville clubs and never showed up for class, so I wouldn’t be shocked if NE takes a chance on Simmons I don't agree at all. From what I remember Ray Rices GF attacked him, he just reacted and one punch knocked her out. They were both crazy drunk and she went on to marry him. That is crazy bad, but that video is worse in my opinion. He's not just reacting or protecting himself, he's on top of a girl on the ground giving her a big combo plate of punches while she is in a fetal position. Then his family follows the girl around talking more smack to her. Maybe we missed something in the beginning, yet that looks awful. That's the worst video I've seen of Ray Rice, Hunt, and Mixon. They were all dealing with crazy aggressive women coming at them. It's all crazy wrong given how big these guys are. I'm a big believer in second chances for most people. I'm not saying he should be out of the league, but I'm not drafting him either. Would I give him a training camp invite? Maybe, but he's off my dratt board. Send a message that costs him millions. I'm going to take your Hernandez comments as a Joke because no one knew he was that guy. Tons of red flags, got in trouble a lot, lots of weed, killing was a shock to most people. It's also why I remove Simmons from my board. I don't take any chances with major red flags and that is a major one. There was already at least one attempted murder investigation involving Hernandez in Gainesville. But he was a freakazoid talent who was a legit slot reciever with the body of a 245 lb tight end. I’m not going to argue that what Simmons did is less egregious than knocking your wife unconscious. |
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Mar 20, 2019 6:42:50 GMT -5
I find it extremely odd that Simmons keeps getting mocked to the Patriots. I can’t imagine they’d take on a guy with his off the field past. Domestic violence is something they are scared from the Christian Peter fiasco. He was defending his sister, makes it a little different. I don't care who it was attacking my sister I might throw a few punches. Sorry, no. Defending your sister would be pulling the woman off of her. Standing over her throwing punches while she’s in the fetal position on the ground is not defending anyone. The only redeeming thing you can try to say is that he wasn’t winding up and unloading on her or she wouldn’t have gotten up, but still inexcusable. I don’t think the guy should be punished for life. People can change. He grew up in a tough environment and if he’s changed his life around then that should be applauded. IF I were going to draft him there would be so many interviews of him and those around him. He’d also have to agree to be a community leader speaking to kids in similarly tough situations of his and talk about right and wrong etc. You don’t get to do that kind of thing and get the benefit of the doubt without taking hard core responsibility and not just changing but you have to try and change others who were similar to you. Be a leader. It may be a lot to ask but it’s a lot for him to ask teams to just accept he’s changed because he didn’t get in trouble at college. |
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Mar 20, 2019 8:54:00 GMT -5
Andy Reid will always be outcoached in big games. If Mahomes is some kind of genius like Manning or Brady, then he could overcome it, but that's asking a lot. The Chiefs came within 1 stupid lining up offsides call of winning this year. Exactly. Good point. I had almost forgotten about that play with less than a minute left. I thought the season was over. You can counter and say, "Well, Belichick's teams wouldn't shoot themselves in the foot like that", but it does happen. I remember thinking Willie McGinest cost the Pats their first superbowl victory when he held Marshall Faulk in SB 36. That was the play where Warner was stripped and Tebucky Jones ran it 99 yards down the sidelines to make the score 24-3 Patriots. Game over. Except it wasn't. That penalty by McGinest gave the Rams life and they instead scored on the next play and tied the game with 90 seconds to go. And then Tom Brady and Bill Belichick took John Madden's advice and took a knee, and then lost in overtime. Oh, wait that last part didn't happen.  But the point is that penalties can happen at any given time. I agree that Belichick's teams get penalized far less often which reflects very well on Belichick, but at any given moment a penalty can occur - and that's all that stood in the way of the Patriots losing to the Chiefs this past season - a guy lined up in the neutral zone. Phew. |
|
|
|
Post by voiceofreason on Mar 20, 2019 9:19:03 GMT -5
Many games come down to 1 play or penalty.
Like a QB that almost gets sacked by 3 guys but throws up a prayer that an unheralded WR catches by blindly pinning it to the top of his helmet while surrounded by 4 Patriots. On a play that should never have happened as Asante Samuel dropped an easy INT on the prvious play.
And then there was the Butler!
|
|
|
|
Post by texs31 on Mar 20, 2019 9:44:53 GMT -5
Miguel has the Pats now at 3.4M in space with the Allen deal pending (it's actually not official yet).
|
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Mar 20, 2019 9:54:31 GMT -5
Many games come down to 1 play or penalty. Like a QB that almost gets sacked by 3 guys but throws up a prayer that an unheralded WR catches by blindly pinning it to the top of his helmet while surrounded by 4 Patriots. On a play that should never have happened as Asante Samuel dropped an easy INT on the prvious play. And then there was the Butler! I hate to be this guy but as a coach I can’t resist. Games don’t come down to one play. Big plays exist at big times that are a lot easier to see how they impacted the result because nothing comes after them. But there’s a whole game worth of plays that set that situation up and if you do your job before that point then those plays never happen. For example the Saints didn’t lose solely because the refs screwed them. They lost because of all the plays they didn’t make they caused them to be in that spot. I always tell my teams if you put yourself in a spot where a bad call can cost you then that’s on you for not doing enough. That Manningham catch happened because the Patriots linemen were too scared to finish the tackle on Eli because of calls previously in that game. Doesn’t matter they should have finished the tackle. And Asante should have caught that ball and we should have score more points. |
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 20, 2019 10:21:45 GMT -5
I don't agree at all. From what I remember Ray Rices GF attacked him, he just reacted and one punch knocked her out. They were both crazy drunk and she went on to marry him. That is crazy bad, but that video is worse in my opinion. He's not just reacting or protecting himself, he's on top of a girl on the ground giving her a big combo plate of punches while she is in a fetal position. Then his family follows the girl around talking more smack to her. Maybe we missed something in the beginning, yet that looks awful. That's the worst video I've seen of Ray Rice, Hunt, and Mixon. They were all dealing with crazy aggressive women coming at them. It's all crazy wrong given how big these guys are. I'm a big believer in second chances for most people. I'm not saying he should be out of the league, but I'm not drafting him either. Would I give him a training camp invite? Maybe, but he's off my dratt board. Send a message that costs him millions. I'm going to take your Hernandez comments as a Joke because no one knew he was that guy. Tons of red flags, got in trouble a lot, lots of weed, killing was a shock to most people. It's also why I remove Simmons from my board. I don't take any chances with major red flags and that is a major one. There was already at least one attempted murder investigation involving Hernandez in Gainesville. But he was a freakazoid talent who was a legit slot reciever with the body of a 245 lb tight end. I’m not going to argue that what Simmons did is less egregious than knocking your wife unconscious. Yea that's not true. A guy basically lied because he had an issue with the group of Florida players. Saying it was Nelson and a guy that looked like Hernandez. Yet a bunch of other witnesses say the guy didn't look anything like Hernandez. When pressed by police again that guy admitted he didn't see the shooter. Per the Police chief Hernandez and all the other players were never suspects because of the many witnesses. That was a day or two after the shooting. After he was arrested Massachusetts State Police asked Florida to look into it again. They closed the case saying Hernandez wasn't involved and was never even a suspect. So there was never an attempted murder investigation into Hernandez. Huge red flag, but no one thought he was a killer. If he was really a suspect in a murder investigation he wouldn't have been drafted. Given how that turned out we need to just eliminate anyone that is seen as high risk. In so many ways Hernandez screwed us because we don't take any chances after him. 8 truly believe guys like Jordan Richards were a direct result of Hernandez. Give me the smart, great team guys that are 100% the opposite of Hernandez. If you have any major issue I feel 100% safe saying your not on the Patriots draft board. |
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 20, 2019 10:23:53 GMT -5
Miguel has the Pats now at 3.4M in space with the Allen deal pending (it's actually not official yet). Does that include Dorsett? He's the one guy I haven't seen numbers on yet. |
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Mar 20, 2019 11:02:23 GMT -5
Miguel has the Pats now at 3.4M in space with the Allen deal pending (it's actually not official yet). Does that include Dorsett? He's the one guy I haven't seen numbers on yet. He’s 1 year 2.6 1.5m salary 500k signing 600k roster |
|
|
|
Post by philarhody on Mar 20, 2019 12:31:19 GMT -5
There was already at least one attempted murder investigation involving Hernandez in Gainesville. But he was a freakazoid talent who was a legit slot reciever with the body of a 245 lb tight end. I’m not going to argue that what Simmons did is less egregious than knocking your wife unconscious. Yea that's not true. A guy basically lied because he had an issue with the group of Florida players. Saying it was Nelson and a guy that looked like Hernandez. Yet a bunch of other witnesses say the guy didn't look anything like Hernandez. When pressed by police again that guy admitted he didn't see the shooter. Per the Police chief Hernandez and all the other players were never suspects because of the many witnesses. That was a day or two after the shooting. After he was arrested Massachusetts State Police asked Florida to look into it again. They closed the case saying Hernandez wasn't involved and was never even a suspect. So there was never an attempted murder investigation into Hernandez. Huge red flag, but no one thought he was a killer. If he was really a suspect in a murder investigation he wouldn't have been drafted. Given how that turned out we need to just eliminate anyone that is seen as high risk. In so many ways Hernandez screwed us because we don't take any chances after him. 8 truly believe guys like Jordan Richards were a direct result of Hernandez. Give me the smart, great team guys that are 100% the opposite of Hernandez. If you have any major issue I feel 100% safe saying your not on the Patriots draft board. I didnt say he was a suspect. I said he was involved in an investigation. If you can’t define your opponent’s terms, you shouldn’t be arguing. Are you saying it’s “not true” that Hernandez was involved in an murder investigation in Gainsville? I agree that the Patriots have been risk averse since Hernandez, at least when it comes to the draft. |
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 20, 2019 12:48:40 GMT -5
Yea that's not true. A guy basically lied because he had an issue with the group of Florida players. Saying it was Nelson and a guy that looked like Hernandez. Yet a bunch of other witnesses say the guy didn't look anything like Hernandez. When pressed by police again that guy admitted he didn't see the shooter. Per the Police chief Hernandez and all the other players were never suspects because of the many witnesses. That was a day or two after the shooting. After he was arrested Massachusetts State Police asked Florida to look into it again. They closed the case saying Hernandez wasn't involved and was never even a suspect. So there was never an attempted murder investigation into Hernandez. Huge red flag, but no one thought he was a killer. If he was really a suspect in a murder investigation he wouldn't have been drafted. Given how that turned out we need to just eliminate anyone that is seen as high risk. In so many ways Hernandez screwed us because we don't take any chances after him. 8 truly believe guys like Jordan Richards were a direct result of Hernandez. Give me the smart, great team guys that are 100% the opposite of Hernandez. If you have any major issue I feel 100% safe saying your not on the Patriots draft board. I didnt say he was a suspect. I said he was involved in an investigation. If you can’t define your opponent’s terms, you shouldn’t be arguing. Are you saying it’s “not true” that Hernandez was involved in an murder investigation in Gainsville? I agree that the Patriots have been risk averse since Hernandez, at least when it comes to the draft. Haha you know exactly what you were implying. Also no I don't think I'd say a witness or potential witness was involved in a murder investigation. |
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Mar 21, 2019 6:16:54 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 21, 2019 10:33:45 GMT -5
www.clnsmedia.com/lazars-mock-draft-1-0-patriots-load-pass-catchers/Kinda why I hate tweets. People say shit just to say shit and then everyone thinks it means something. He says that then passes over McLaurin in his mock in both the second and third rounds, while saying he'd be there late third round. Nevermind he couldn't have watched much tape, because all six on my sources have a lot of negatives about his tape. You can't overlook that. Everyone agrees though he looks good at practices, senior bowl, combine, and pro-day which isn't surprising for a track guy. It's also the one part of the process that means the least to the smart teams. Heck I bet the most important part of McLaurin pro-day for the Patriots was how he looked returning punts, which he did after teams wanted to see if he could do that. Look at the senior bowl, combine, private workouts, and pro-days like the Patriots do. They have watched all the tape on McLaurin and don't care how he looks in a practice setting. It's about getting to know the player more and things like getting a first look at returning punts. Heck a lot of the time we've heard they are mostly looking at the backups and guys they didn't have a lot of tape on. You can like Terry McLaurin, but you can't take him over a guy like Deebo Samuel. Heck even in the third McLaurin isn't the clear cut best WR that will be available.
|
|
|
