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2019 Patriots Offseason Thread
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Post by voiceofreason on Apr 23, 2019 12:27:01 GMT -5
My new prediction is the Patriots trade 32 to Arizona for Rosen... i won’t be happy about it but it’s my feeling right now... My preference today is they take AJ Brown but that will change again. I have been thinking the same thing. He was pretty impressive as a true freshmen. One way or another the Pats will be trading that pick, 100% in my opinion. |
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Post by texs31 on Apr 23, 2019 12:41:49 GMT -5
Seattle trading Clark to KC for a 1st, 2020 2nd and exchange of 3rds. Schefter reporting
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 23, 2019 14:37:47 GMT -5
Kinda shocking trade after only getting a 2020 second for Ford. Teams still going all in for short burst over long-term team building.
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 23, 2019 15:22:23 GMT -5
Seattle trading Clark to KC for a 1st, 2020 2nd and exchange of 3rds. Schefter reporting Jesus - plus a massive contract |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 24, 2019 0:57:09 GMT -5
Ok just finished my TE and WR reviews. They are both very deep classes. They both have a little bit of everything. You really have to ask what you want? Depending on that answer you could certainly see the Patriots wait longer than some might expect to address these huge needs. There will be a good amount of options later in the draft.
I won't talk about the top four, as we've talked a lot about them.
Kahale Warring is small school stud, who just keeps rising up draft boards. He has fairly elite traits, but is raw. I hate to say this, but you want a Gronk type upside that isn't Hockenson, he's your guy.
Drew Sample one of the top blockers, tested a lot better than most thought he would. If you want a very solid two way player after the first two rounds he's it. Not a flashy pick, yet seems like a low risk type guy.
Foster Monroe again a top blockers, yet was seen as just that. Yet he tested off the charts, like first round pick type athlete. You want to gamble in the mid rounds, he's a good bet. Unlike Warring though, you just don't see that type of receiver on tape.
Dax Raymond is even a guy with very good upside as a two way TE, with testing numbers to be an above average receiver. Opened eyes at senior bowl with his ability to get open. Small school guy.
Kaden Smith needs work on route running, limited high end speed, yet very good 3 cone time and short area times. He's good enough to be the Patriots top TE pick, if they plan on double dipping. Riskier type guy, but could be a true starting TE.
Alize Mack upside of starter, needs some work, yet adds the willingness to block with the ability to go deep and make hard catches. Not good at change of direction, not a run after catch guy, some issues at College, so he's a boom/bust guy. Very good double dip guy later in draft.
Combine Smith's short area game and Mack's speed and down field ability and you'd have a darn good TE.
Even guys like Nauta and Sweeney are solid later round prospects. Mostly blockers, with some receiving upside
You then have your can't really block, receiving TEs
Caleb Wilson who I like is raw, a former QB with only one year of big production. Yet it was really good. Can pick up yards after the catch and has good upside as a Hernandez type TE.
Josh Oliver another small school guy. He's also raw and probably shouldn't be only a receiving TE, but he needs that type of work. Yet was a very good receiving TE. Another upside type guy.
Dawson Knox looks the part of impact receiving TE, just raw as he's new to the position. Production was horrible, yet played with maybe the deepest WR group in the Country. High level athlete, good hands, just needs a lot of work. Major boom/bust guy.
It's one of the most talented groups overall I've ever seen. In a normal year a guy like Mack with 4.7 speed, his strength, and athletic catch ability is a day three type TE even with his issues. He likely goes a lot lower in this draft. I've seen 5th to undrafted lately. I'll be crazy upset if they don't draft two TEs in this draft. Sternberger is still my guy based on upside and production. Yet the options are better than I thought.
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 24, 2019 6:26:06 GMT -5
Ok just finished my TE and WR reviews. They are both very deep classes. They both have a little bit of everything. You really have to ask what you want? Depending on that answer you could certainly see the Patriots wait longer than some might expect to address these huge needs. There will be a good amount of options later in the draft. I won't talk about the top four, as we've talked a lot about them. Kahale Warring is small school stud, who just keeps rising up draft boards. He has fairly elite traits, but is raw. I hate to say this, but you want a Gronk type upside that isn't Hockenson, he's your guy. Drew Sample one of the top blockers, tested a lot better than most thought he would. If you want a very solid two way player after the first two rounds he's it. Not a flashy pick, yet seems like a low risk type guy. Foster Monroe again a top blockers, yet was seen as just that. Yet he tested off the charts, like first round pick type athlete. You want to gamble in the mid rounds, he's a good bet. Unlike Warring though, you just don't see that type of receiver on tape. Dax Raymond is even a guy with very good upside as a two way TE, with testing numbers to be an above average receiver. Opened eyes at senior bowl with his ability to get open. Small school guy. Kaden Smith needs work on route running, limited high end speed, yet very good 3 cone time and short area times. He's good enough to be the Patriots top TE pick, if they plan on double dipping. Riskier type guy, but could be a true starting TE. Alize Mack upside of starter, needs some work, yet adds the willingness to block with the ability to go deep and make hard catches. Not good at change of direction, not a run after catch guy, some issues at College, so he's a boom/bust guy. Very good double dip guy later in draft. Combine Smith's short area game and Mack's speed and down field ability and you'd have a darn good TE. Even guys like Nauta and Sweeney are solid later round prospects. Mostly blockers, with some receiving upside You then have your can't really block, receiving TEs Caleb Wilson who I like is raw, a former QB with only one year of big production. Yet it was really good. Can pick up yards after the catch and has good upside as a Hernandez type TE. Josh Oliver another small school guy. He's also raw and probably shouldn't be only a receiving TE, but he needs that type of work. Yet was a very good receiving TE. Another upside type guy. Dawson Knox looks the part of impact receiving TE, just raw as he's new to the position. Production was horrible, yet played with maybe the deepest WR group in the Country. High level athlete, good hands, just needs a lot of work. Major boom/bust guy. It's one of the most talented groups overall I've ever seen. In a normal year a guy like Mack with 4.7 speed, his strength, and athletic catch ability is a day three type TE even with his issues. He likely goes a lot lower in this draft. I've seen 5th to undrafted lately. I'll be crazy upset if they don't draft two TEs in this draft. Sternberger is still my guy based on upside and production. Yet the options are better than I thought. They need a receiving tight end - they theoretically have the blockers. I agree with you on Warring and could see them falling in love with him. I have to think Jace and Caleb Wilson are the best second round fits. I do expect another one later but probably not 2 in top 4 now that Jenkins is here. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 24, 2019 6:29:32 GMT -5
By the way... my respect for Josh Rosen has skyrocketed the last couple days. All reports are he’s been so dedicated and focused thru the offseason and has been a great leader in OTAs. From what I had heard of him, leadership and attitude were the big questions. He couldn’t have been more impressive handling this situation. Maybe he’s matured - maybe this is the chip that will forever drive him, maybe the original reports were a bit overblown. I could get behind his acquisition but can his be ok sitting for another couple years behind Brady? Soaking it all in?
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 24, 2019 6:37:03 GMT -5
College running backs are damned if they do and damned if they don’t. Run too much in college and you get questioned of being over-worked. Not run enough and now you don’t have experience.
Josh Jacobs should be wanted for his lack of use at Bama. They always have a stable of productive backs. Him not playing earlier is more about that than anything. Sure he was more of a layer bloomer too, but who cares? That’s a huge plus.
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Post by voiceofreason on Apr 24, 2019 7:44:14 GMT -5
I did some reading on Warring after his big combine results and was impressed. He has the athleticism but is raw for sure. Not too sure on how "raw" works with Tom though and the Pats won't be able to stash him on the practice squad, IMO.
That's one of the problems with soo many top draft picks. How many can you expect to make the team as they won't be able to stash them away. Leads to trades up this year, off to next year and or for current players like they have been doing for the last 3 years.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 24, 2019 12:31:30 GMT -5
Warring might be the highest riser I've ever studied. Only in one of my draft Mags as a late round sleeper/upside guy. Now most have him in the second round, some third. I've seen a ton of Mocks with him coming off the board as the #3 TE. I kinda ignored him because I normally hate guys that rise in the draft process like that. Yet he's different, everyone has him ranked high now. I'm very interested in where he gets drafted and how he does.
All of the TEs I listed either had much better production or are a lot better athletes than Ryan Izzo who we took last year. Like his comp is Nauta and Sweeney, yet both had a lot better College production. The TE position is hard, not all Colleges use TEs like the NFL and you get a lot of guys that become much better receivers in the NFL. This class seems filled with them, like there will be a few mid-round picks that really surprise people in the NFL.
I compare this year's blockers to Dwayne Allen, a guy early in his career before he beefed up who wasn't a bad receiving TE and a lot of them blow him away athlectly. He was a third round pick and while he never showed it as a Patriot, did have 20 TD for the Colts. Testing wise he's very close to Kaden Smith, just shorter and stronger, yet both were slower TEs yet with good short area testing numbers. So don't sleep on guys seen as blockers, at least on paper they have some good upside as receivers. I've seen a few people think Smith if he can improve his route running and get a little stronger could become one of the better two way TEs in the NFL.
If Rosen doesn't want to be a Patriot after last year, I don't want him. Go from a mad house mess of a team, to the best run team in football. While learning from the best QB ever to play the game. I do question the reports, the Cardinals have a ton to gain by spreading how great he is doing right now. Nothing about him scares me if the price is right, not with his arm talent.
I don't mind RBs with limited experience, it's a plus in my book. Yet Jacobs never even had one year of being the guy. Heck he didn't even have a string of games being the guy. He maxed out at 15 games 120 attempts, that's nothing. Like you never got to see him be a 20 plus carry back in a stretch of games, he did it once in his College career. So while I don't ding a Miles Sanders or Dexter Williams for one year of production, I worry about Jacobs. He's the highest rated RB to come out of Bama in years and they couldn't get him more touches? Which is only highlighted by the fact some people have him rated as a top 20 prospect, heck I've seen top 15. Has there ever been a first round RB that never came close to a thousand yard season in College? You gotta question if he wears down and just isn't a guy that can easily handle big workloads. I'd also feel better if he was behind studs in College. Like some Bama guys are buried three deep against first round picks. That Bama team ran a ton and he just didn't get a lot of those touches. Even this year he didn't lead the team in Attempts. I like him, but more like mid second round and I'd take Miles Sanders over him. He's almost like Warring in that it's a lot of projecting what he can do.
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Post by philarhody on Apr 24, 2019 13:21:44 GMT -5
I went back and watched his tape, and I think Grier might be the second best quarterback in this draft. In this link, pff states how they nicked Grier a bit because of his sheer amount of older the shoulder throws, which are slightly less common in the pros. However, I think those very throws are probably what the Patriots do more than anyone through wheel routes and outs up the seam.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 24, 2019 13:57:10 GMT -5
www.patspulpit.com/2019/4/24/18513354/2019-nfl-draft-pats-pulpit-live-7-round-new-england-patriots-mock-draftCan you love and hate a mock at the same time? Value wise that might be a good as it gets, like a few too many guys falling yet you never know. So it's an A plus on value. A guy like Hurd in the 7th is something, great Patterson type player. Yet no QB, not even a lower round flyer type guy. While I have zero issue with Warring late third, that's a very good gamble. You need a guy more ready also. Also no DE in a crazy deep class. Unless you think Rivers is ready to bust out, you need a DE more than two DTs. They take Hardman about middle of some projections. Certainly not a bad pick given his return ability, speed, and open field big play traits. Yet there are similar small WR that are going to get drafted a lot latter that are better pure WRs. Not a huge Harmon guy, mainly do to where he was projected, but at pick 73 that seems like a great upside pick. A lot of nitpicking for what would be a very good draft. I think I need that, because the Patriots will do something like take two DTs high or take a safety high after I had them taking one for three straight years and they didn't.
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 24, 2019 14:09:46 GMT -5
www.patspulpit.com/2019/4/24/18513354/2019-nfl-draft-pats-pulpit-live-7-round-new-england-patriots-mock-draftCan you love and hate a mock at the same time? Value wise that might be a good as it gets, like a few too many guys falling yet you never know. So it's an A plus on value. A guy like Hurd in the 7th is something, great Patterson type player. Yet no QB, not even a lower round flyer type guy. While I have zero issue with Warring late third, that's a very good gamble. You need a guy more ready also. Also no DE in a crazy deep class. Unless you think Rivers is ready to bust out, you need a DE more than two DTs. They take Hardman about middle of some projections. Certainly not a bad pick given his return ability, speed, and open field big play traits. Yet there are similar small WR that are going to get drafted a lot latter that are better pure WRs. Not a huge Harmon guy, mainly do to where he was projected, but at pick 73 that seems like a great upside pick. A lot of nitpicking for what would be a very good draft. I think I need that, because the Patriots will do something like take two DTs high or take a safety high after I had them taking one for three straight years and they didn't. Yes, I’m with you here, but in this situation it’s not like you can’t line Tillery and Bennett up on the edge with Lawrence and Guy in the middle in a base defense right? I kind hope they use those 3rds to trade up in the second so they can end up with a highly rated WR, TE and a strong defensive lineman. Sure you give up 2 of your picks later in the 3rd but I think it’s worth it if they are confident in certain guys. I worry about a run on Tight ends and Wide Receivers in the second. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 24, 2019 14:17:43 GMT -5
Reports are Agholor is on the block. He’s in his 5th year option at 9m and a free agent after the season. Would you like to see him here and at what cost (pick wise)?
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 24, 2019 14:46:02 GMT -5
Sure I'm interested in Agholor, but if the cost is right. I also worry about the effect he'd have on adding Rookies. We now have Edelman, Thomas, Dorsett, and the rest of the younger unproven guys. Add Agholor and you can't take two WRs high in the draft. Not with Gordon also hanging around. He also costs a lot even in this market for a slot WR. So the we want to go for it price, off the top of my head late third round pick. In a couple years you might get back a 4th or 5th round comp pick when he leaves.
We just can't punt taking a few young high upside WRs in this stacked draft.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Apr 24, 2019 15:32:31 GMT -5
Charlie Weiss, yesterday on Sirius w/Bob Papa, said he would not be surprised AT ALL if the Patriots were to take Will Grier @32.
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Post by philarhody on Apr 24, 2019 23:27:00 GMT -5
Apparently Jaylon Ferguson ran a 8.08 3-cone. But his production and tape are unbelievable. Set the NCAA sack record and was dominant against LSU. Incredible burst and power. Could be a Terrell Suggs like player
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 24, 2019 23:54:59 GMT -5
I don't worry about speed or 3 cone time much with pass rushers. More power and production. Yet 8.08 is bad and likely why he went from late first to 2nd to 3rd round.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Apr 25, 2019 0:37:21 GMT -5
My new prediction is the Patriots trade 32 to Arizona for Rosen... i won’t be happy about it but it’s my feeling right now... My preference today is they take AJ Brown but that will change again. I have been thinking the same thing. He was pretty impressive as a true freshmen. One way or another the Pats will be trading that pick, 100% in my opinion. The only thing thats 100% is they draft a safety with a sixth round grade in the second round. The sooner we all come to terms with it the better. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 25, 2019 0:40:31 GMT -5
www.patspulpit.com/2019/4/24/18513354/2019-nfl-draft-pats-pulpit-live-7-round-new-england-patriots-mock-draftCan you love and hate a mock at the same time? Value wise that might be a good as it gets, like a few too many guys falling yet you never know. So it's an A plus on value. A guy like Hurd in the 7th is something, great Patterson type player. Yet no QB, not even a lower round flyer type guy. While I have zero issue with Warring late third, that's a very good gamble. You need a guy more ready also. Also no DE in a crazy deep class. Unless you think Rivers is ready to bust out, you need a DE more than two DTs. They take Hardman about middle of some projections. Certainly not a bad pick given his return ability, speed, and open field big play traits. Yet there are similar small WR that are going to get drafted a lot latter that are better pure WRs. Not a huge Harmon guy, mainly do to where he was projected, but at pick 73 that seems like a great upside pick. A lot of nitpicking for what would be a very good draft. I think I need that, because the Patriots will do something like take two DTs high or take a safety high after I had them taking one for three straight years and they didn't. Yes, I’m with you here, but in this situation it’s not like you can’t line Tillery and Bennett up on the edge with Lawrence and Guy in the middle in a base defense right? I kind hope they use those 3rds to trade up in the second so they can end up with a highly rated WR, TE and a strong defensive lineman. Sure you give up 2 of your picks later in the 3rd but I think it’s worth it if they are confident in certain guys. I worry about a run on Tight ends and Wide Receivers in the second. I don't know, Notre Dame never used Tillery at the Edge. I don't think that works, inside pass rush is his game, he gets into the back field a lot. Outside is just totally different and he isn't some awesome run defender. You make those picks based on value and the fact long-term you get two high end DTs. Next year would be interesting, might end up cutting Butler if that happened. I would hate trading up in the second at that cost. I just don't see much of a difference in talent. Run on TEs, OK I might move up. Yet I like that second and third tier. Like Wilson I've seen him rated 3rd/4th round to guys thinking 5th/6th. I'm just not crazy high on Smith and while I really like Sternberger he is risky. I can see a trade down from 32 if you want to get into that range, maybe move up slightly like using a 4th. Not two thirds though. I actually think trading down for Future picks would be my goal. Late second till the 5th round seems like the value sections of this draft. Just spit balling, but is Smith or Sternberger that much better than Warring and Wilson? At TE if there was a huge run I can see things getting interesting. Like three go in the first or something like that. Yet at WR, it's kinda a huge group all bunched together. You'll have a run for sure, but what's the huge difference in talent? I really like Brown, yet end of second round there will be 3-5 of the top ten WRs left, heck that 2nd and third might get you two top 10 WRs. Won't you have a good shot at Harry, Boykins, Ridley, Samuel, Harmon, Campbell, Whiteside, and Isabella? More than a few of those guys will be there. Maybe it's just me, but they all have issues and I just don't see a huge difference. Plus the next few tiers are crazy deep. Given how we draft WRs let's take two guys and spread out the risk. I will say outside Brown, one guy stands out as maybe a guy worth trading up for, Deebo Samuel. It's just crazy hard judging WRs for the Patriots, which is why I'd play it safe and go for value in a deep class. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 25, 2019 6:12:58 GMT -5
Yes, I’m with you here, but in this situation it’s not like you can’t line Tillery and Bennett up on the edge with Lawrence and Guy in the middle in a base defense right? I kind hope they use those 3rds to trade up in the second so they can end up with a highly rated WR, TE and a strong defensive lineman. Sure you give up 2 of your picks later in the 3rd but I think it’s worth it if they are confident in certain guys. I worry about a run on Tight ends and Wide Receivers in the second. I don't know, Notre Dame never used Tillery at the Edge. I don't think that works, inside pass rush is his game, he gets into the back field a lot. Outside is just totally different and he isn't some awesome run defender. You make those picks based on value and the fact long-term you get two high end DTs. Next year would be interesting, might end up cutting Butler if that happened. I would hate trading up in the second at that cost. I just don't see much of a difference in talent. Run on TEs, OK I might move up. Yet I like that second and third tier. Like Wilson I've seen him rated 3rd/4th round to guys thinking 5th/6th. I'm just not crazy high on Smith and while I really like Sternberger he is risky. I can see a trade down from 32 if you want to get into that range, maybe move up slightly like using a 4th. Not two thirds though. I actually think trading down for Future picks would be my goal. Late second till the 5th round seems like the value sections of this draft. Just spit balling, but is Smith or Sternberger that much better than Warring and Wilson? At TE if there was a huge run I can see things getting interesting. Like three go in the first or something like that. Yet at WR, it's kinda a huge group all bunched together. You'll have a run for sure, but what's the huge difference in talent? I really like Brown, yet end of second round there will be 3-5 of the top ten WRs left, heck that 2nd and third might get you two top 10 WRs. Won't you have a good shot at Harry, Boykins, Ridley, Samuel, Harmon, Campbell, Whiteside, and Isabella? More than a few of those guys will be there. Maybe it's just me, but they all have issues and I just don't see a huge difference. Plus the next few tiers are crazy deep. Given how we draft WRs let's take two guys and spread out the risk. I will say outside Brown, one guy stands out as maybe a guy worth trading up for, Deebo Samuel. It's just crazy hard judging WRs for the Patriots, which is why I'd play it safe and go for value in a deep class. Obviously we don’t know and a third to trade up in the second is too much but maybe you get back a 4th or 5th as well. The difference between those guys and Warring are readiness. I like Wilson though and I think he could be a target if theirs. Warring doesn’t seem like a guy they will want based on where he’s now being talked about. He should be a 5th or later maybe a late 4... maybe... but guy wasn’t even productive so he’s raw and not productive at a small school. They need a guy ready to step in and contribute. Kaden Smith is pretty hard to get a handle on. Some people early in felt he was a top 2 or 3 tight end and a first round pick. Others think he came out a year too early. And other reports are pretty lousy on him. Then you get a guy like Parham almost out of no where being talked about as a second round pick... small school - really productive. He seems more like a Patriot than Warring. Don’t the Patriots typically go for productive players over toolsy ones? Even their raw small school guys dominated the competition. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 25, 2019 6:14:35 GMT -5
By the way, happy draft day. I have to be honest, I miss the days that the first and second round were together. I barely remember them and question if that was even a thing but I know it was. Also, not siked the Bruins game is also on tonight.
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Post by texs31 on Apr 25, 2019 7:41:50 GMT -5
My "everyone loses their mind" prediction is that they pick a CB in the first. BSJ, among others, are saying how much NE likes this class.
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 25, 2019 8:27:26 GMT -5
My "everyone loses their mind" prediction is that they pick a CB in the first. BSJ, among others, are saying how much NE likes this class. I wouldn’t lose my mind with that, my guess is if they did it’s either the kid from Vandy kid, JoeJuan Williams or the Florida kid Chauncey Gardner-Johnson. Williams would be a second round pick, maybe even a 3rd or 4th so he probably would be a lose your mind guy in the first. Johnson is a bit of a stretch in the first but it’s not crazy bad. The reason these guys are possible because they are bigger corners and possibly even safeties at the next level. Bill made mention of how big these receivers were getting and that you need someone to be able to cover them. If they took a pure corner, I’d be surprised or it’s a sign they don’t believe in Dawson at all. Jonathan Jones is likely gone after this year but you still have a lot of depth there and young upside. I do think Bill believes defensive backs are the most important part of the defense now a days and you can never have too many. |
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Post by voiceofreason on Apr 25, 2019 9:20:46 GMT -5
I would be happy to see the Pats get Warring and Stidham in the third. With the other picks get 1 OL, 1 DL, 1 edge/backer and a WR. Trade 1 off to next year.
Some are saying their are only 15 guys with 1st round grades so BB could punt early. Next years draft is supposed to be much stronger for QBs and Brady will be closer to the end so getting an extra 1st rounder next year could set up a move for a QB.
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