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2019 Patriots Offseason Thread
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 12, 2019 2:55:23 GMT -5
Well the Patriots are going to have 6 picks in the top 70. That's a ton of ammo, so it's an important draft. They need those picks because they have needs at areas that require high picks like QB, DT, WR, TE and maybe DE.
Overall I don't get the issue with guys making over a million. I mean what does that matter unless you don't think there were the money right? It's really what the Patriots do and all our young talent makes it work.
We currently have 27 guys slated to make over 1 million next year already. 7 guys catch my eye Allen, Clayborn, Hoyer, Slater, Ebner, Roberts, and King. You can get 18.6 million by cutting everyone but Ebner. I think Slater making 3 million is crazy. Hoyer at 3 million isn't crazy, but we need a young QB. Roberts at 2 million seems crazy high.
McCourty and Gronk are 9.5 and 9.8 million for 19.3 million savings if cut or retire. I've love McCourty but his cap number is crazy for who he now is as a player. Like I can hope Gronk can bounce back if he gets healthy, yet McCourty is likely to keep declining to middle of the pack yet top paid safety. Money I'd like to spend on Flowers.
Add in a Brady restructure and a Hightower restructure and we can have plenty of cap room.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Feb 12, 2019 11:05:27 GMT -5
Don’t forget the mandatory pick that must be spent reaching for a safety in the second round umassgrad.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 12, 2019 15:08:19 GMT -5
thebiglead.com/2019/02/12/bill-belichick-trade-josh-rosen-cardinals-kyler-murray/amp/In so many ways it makes sense. Not the trades they are talking about, those don't. You got a GM on the hot seat, a new coach who's system is built for a guy like Murray. You got Rosen who fits a lot more in our system than hus new coaches system. They'd get killed on the value, as Bill wouldn't give up a ton. Yet as the Cardinals GM you just gambled on a coach, why not the QB he wants? A GM can buy himself years if he nails the right QB and I'd bet Murray would do that. Who knows overall how good he'll be, but the guy will be electric and energize the team and fan base. Looking at that GMs drafting history kinda amazed he still has a job and Rosen was always seen as needing the right place to develop. Few things I know people think the new coach was to help the QB. Yet that seems kinda crazy given the coaches record and what he likes too do. I mean Rosen is the last QB I'd pick for his system. The other thing is we have no clue if Bill even really likes him. Yet he does seem to have traits that suit us. Very smart, size we like in a QB, and he seems to fit the offense. I will say that leadership might be a big negative though. At the right cost though?
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 12, 2019 15:11:01 GMT -5
Don’t forget the mandatory pick that must be spent reaching for a safety in the second round umassgrad. I gotta believe he learned his lesson on that. I was actually surprised he passed on some safeties in the 2nd and 3rd rounds last year. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 12, 2019 15:53:50 GMT -5
thebiglead.com/2019/02/12/bill-belichick-trade-josh-rosen-cardinals-kyler-murray/amp/In so many ways it makes sense. Not the trades they are talking about, those don't. You got a GM on the hot seat, a new coach who's system is built for a guy like Murray. You got Rosen who fits a lot more in our system than hus new coaches system. They'd get killed on the value, as Bill wouldn't give up a ton. Yet as the Cardinals GM you just gambled on a coach, why not the QB he wants? A GM can buy himself years if he nails the right QB and I'd bet Murray would do that. Who knows overall how good he'll be, but the guy will be electric and energize the team and fan base. Looking at that GMs drafting history kinda amazed he still has a job and Rosen was always seen as needing the right place to develop. Few things I know people think the new coach was to help the QB. Yet that seems kinda crazy given the coaches record and what he likes too do. I mean Rosen is the last QB I'd pick for his system. The other thing is we have no clue if Bill even really likes him. Yet he does seem to have traits that suit us. Very smart, size we like in a QB, and he seems to fit the offense. I will say that leadership might be a big negative though. At the right cost though? At the right cost, for sure. His cap hits would be very low for the Patriots as the Cardinals are responsible for the signing bonus. If Brady does have 3 years left, then he might never play before he retires and you need to extend him so that could get weird. But working with him up close is probably all Josh and Bill need. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 12, 2019 16:49:54 GMT -5
You get that 5th year option with first round picks.
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Post by costpet on Feb 12, 2019 20:35:42 GMT -5
Oh my, so much to worry about. I think the people in here worry more than BB. He knows what he wants and how to get it. He usually does. I don't think he's too worried. He can make a trade, pick up the free agent he wants, then grab a few draft choices with all his picks for the right guys. With all those extra picks he can trade a few for next year, too.
I say, stop worrying and trust in Bill. As long as he's here, we will always have a shot to get to and win the SB. Brady has all those extra fingers to fill with rings.
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Post by philarhody on Feb 13, 2019 0:02:51 GMT -5
Well, the Patriots may have been delivered a gift. If everyone passes on him, I would love for Belichick to draft this guy: www.espn.com/nfl/draft2019/story/_/id/25979858/projected-first-round-pick-jeffery-simmons-injures-knee After Kyler Murray, Simmons might be the best player in the draft. Btw, why are people debating whether Murray will go number 1 overall? It makes no sense to me. He's a generational talent. I heard Daniel Jeremiah compare him to Tarik Cohen as a runner. That's insane. He reminds me of Russell Wilson as a thrower and just had the best statistical season of any quarterback ever (.2 quarterback rating behind Tua for best all time and also had 1,000 yards rushing). |
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 13, 2019 7:10:11 GMT -5
Btw, why are people debating whether Murray will go number 1 overall? It makes no sense to me. He's a generational talent. I heard Daniel Jeremiah compare him to Tarik Cohen as a runner. That's insane. He reminds me of Russell Wilson as a thrower and just had the best statistical season of any quarterback ever (.2 quarterback rating behind Tua for best all time and also had 1,000 yards rushing). Because he’s 5’10 and started one year in college and played in a system that before Mayfield every QB was basically overrated when they came out... I know height isn’t everything but being 5’10 is a big issue in the NFL for a QB and quarterbacks who run a lot in the NFL just get hurt and wear down. Sure they make a splash for a couple years but there’s a reason why all you hear about with them is how to keep them healthy and have them run less. Murray may very well be a great QB but he has a lot to over come to get there. I like that his completion percentage is high, Mayfields were a tad higher and had 4 years of them so you had more to go off with him. Plus, he’s not a runner like Murray. The 5’10 thing though really worries me with Kyler. Even the “great” shorter QBs are at least 2 inches taller and you can see them struggle with their height at times. Even Drew Brees. Can Murray really play under center in the NFL? Fortunately, there’s a lot more shotgun but you still need to be able to go under center. I suppose, you could build a smaller offensive line, but imagine Murray behind Trent Brown? Brown would turn into part of the D. I’d be very hesitant to draft him number 1. He’s also a helium guy and those worry me. It’s almost as if people are talking themselves into him as more time goes on. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 13, 2019 7:54:06 GMT -5
Saw this and it’s interesting. I guess it depends on how bad the tear is but I’m not a fan of using a first rd pick on a guy with a torn ACL who won’t play for you for over a year. They have 2 second round picks and a bunch of 3rds so if they want to package those to move up in the second to grab him then I’d be a fan of that move. I really feel this is a key draft. Its so important to put a couple drafts back to back as Brady enters his final years if you want to keep this run going. If we are being honest, this years team was likely the least talented Super Bowl group they’ve had and they will need to continue to shift the burden away from Brady even more like they did this year with the run game and come playoff time the defense. These are the most recent Patriots rookie classes (UDFA included): 2018: Sony Michel, Keion Crosson, JC Jackson (big contributors). But lots of potential still with Isaiah Wynn, Duke Dawson, Ja’Whaun Bentley, Christian Sam and Braxton Berrios. Summary: very good and could turn into an epic class if a couple of those injured guys come in and fill their potential. 2017: Derek Rivers (looks like a bust), Dietrich Wise (good solid player), Adam Butler (UDFA solid rotation guy), Jacob Hollister (UDFA can’t stay healthy), Cody Hollister and Cole Croston (UDFA but still on PS could be backup depth contributors). Summary: they basically punted this draft with only 5 picks and the results are very underwhelming as a result. 2016: Joe Thuney (great pick), Vincent Valentine (gone but had a couple moments), Malcolm Mitchell (fine but was key to the SB vs Seattle), Elandon Roberts (still sticking around but has been below average), Jonathan Jones (UDFA - great pickup - strong starter with more upside) Summary: this draft has to be looked at favorably because of Thuney and Jones plus Mitchell’s contributions in the SB, but there’s not much depth coming from here. 2015: Trey Flowers, Shaq Mason and David Andrews (3 studs), Malcolm Brown (how do you describe him? He’s a 1st rd pick who you didn’t exercise your option on. He wasn’t a complete miss but very underwhelming and I’d say a bad first rd pick), Joe Cardona (long snapper - cool), Tre Jackson (long gone), Jordan Richards (bad pick/player - maybe lost you a SB by being so bad). summary: great draft season as you got 3 high end starters and were able to extend at least 2 Of them so they are around for the long haul. Mason is one of the best guards in Football and Andrews is one of the best Centers. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 13, 2019 8:26:05 GMT -5
The Patriots have to come away from this draft with a QB, right?
Brady will be 42. I mean, I think he's superman, but he is mortal.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 13, 2019 10:33:50 GMT -5
Few things that 2017 draft you need to account for one year of Cooks and almost another Title, plus Wynn. That is what the 2017 1st round pick got you. Add that Wise started for a Superbowl winning team, while Butler played a big part. Not a bad draft at all. Nevermind guys like Flowers who was traded for and really helped you last year. That Marsh trade killed us!
I don't think the Patriots look at it that way Pedro. They'll only take a QB if the right guy is available. 95% of teams would based on need, but the Patriots won't reach for a guy just to have one.
At the same time if the right guy is available I would be surprised to see them trade up. It's just so hard because so many teams overdraft QBs. You gotta have a draft where good ones slid in the first round or good ones in the later rounds.
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Feb 13, 2019 12:13:54 GMT -5
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 13, 2019 13:40:16 GMT -5
Few things that 2017 draft you need to account for one year of Cooks and almost another Title, plus Wynn. That is what the 2017 1st round pick got you. Add that Wise started for a Superbowl winning team, while Butler played a big part. Not a bad draft at all. Nevermind guys like Flowers who was traded for and really helped you last year. That Marsh trade killed us! I wasn’t upset with how they used the 2017 draft assets, it was solely an illustration on where we are at with young players from a timeline perspective. I feel like they are back in a cycle where they need to infuse the young talent in and last year was a great start to it. If they can duplicate last year then we will be in some serious business. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 13, 2019 15:43:34 GMT -5
Well yea I also want another epic draft, I just don't agree were in a place where we need one. I really like our young talent, most we've had in years.
But yea sign me up for a TE, DT, WR, S, QB, LB, and heck why not also a quality G. Would love to see Brady get 10 rings, he deserves one for each finger and another draft like last year might do it.
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 14, 2019 6:49:39 GMT -5
Well yea I also want another epic draft, I just don't agree were in a place where we need one. I really like our young talent, most we've had in years. But yea sign me up for a TE, DT, WR, S, QB, LB, and heck why not also a quality G. Would love to see Brady get 10 rings, he deserves one for each finger and another draft like last year might do it. So you don’t think that they’ll severely hurt themselves in 2 years if they walk out of this draft with the same draft pick return they got in 2017? Drafts are mostly about 2-4 years after versus the first year. |
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Feb 14, 2019 9:31:00 GMT -5
Our WR and DL needs to be totally redone, as well as likely TE with Gronk either retiring now or soon. So yes they need to nail this draft to keep it rolling.
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 14, 2019 12:22:29 GMT -5
Our WR and DL needs to be totally redone, as well as likely TE with Gronk either retiring now or soon. So yes they need to nail this draft to keep it rolling. If they keep Flowers there’s not really too much change on the defensive line. Brown and Shelton were great in the Super Bowl but were scratches at points during the year. Guy was by far our best interior lineman all year. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 14, 2019 13:12:08 GMT -5
Well yea I also want another epic draft, I just don't agree were in a place where we need one. I really like our young talent, most we've had in years. But yea sign me up for a TE, DT, WR, S, QB, LB, and heck why not also a quality G. Would love to see Brady get 10 rings, he deserves one for each finger and another draft like last year might do it. So you don’t think that they’ll severely hurt themselves in 2 years if they walk out of this draft with the same draft pick return they got in 2017? Drafts are mostly about 2-4 years after versus the first year. Would a Wynn, Wise, Butler, and Rivers class kill us? Nope. It's not that simple though. It's all relative to picks. I mean the 2019 draft has twice the draft capital, heck maybe three times the amount and we had an epic 2018 draft. You seem focused on single draft classes, I look at talent. Combine the 2017 and 2018 draft and few teams have done better. I look at this draft as important do to the amount of draft capital they have, not because we need to infuse talent or we'll suck. A so so 2019 draft is going to produce a bunch of talent just based on the amount of picks. Like I said before an epic draft sets them up to dominate the NFL for the next 5 plus years. What to you think a good average NFL draft is given a full seven pick, picking at the end of each round? How many starters, back ups, etc whatever you use to grade a draft overall? I also think how we view Wise makes a huge difference. You seem to look at him as OK. On the surface I get that, 9.5 sacks in two years isn't an eye popping number. Yet he averages over a QB hit a game. Very similar to Flowers in a lot of ways. He's likely not as good overall but he's going to be an above average starting DE. He's a big part of our Superbowl run in my book. He generates preasure and plays the run very well, you can also move him around like Flowers. I see him as a big reason why Flowers took off the last two years. |
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Feb 14, 2019 14:15:51 GMT -5
Our WR and DL needs to be totally redone, as well as likely TE with Gronk either retiring now or soon. So yes they need to nail this draft to keep it rolling. If they keep Flowers there’s not really too much change on the defensive line. Brown and Shelton were great in the Super Bowl but were scratches at points during the year. Guy was by far our best interior lineman all year. I'm assuming they're not going to be able re-sign him. Maybe I'm wrong its just my assumption looking at the numbers. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 14, 2019 14:18:43 GMT -5
So you don’t think that they’ll severely hurt themselves in 2 years if they walk out of this draft with the same draft pick return they got in 2017? Drafts are mostly about 2-4 years after versus the first year. Would a Wynn, Wise, Butler, and Rivers class kill us? Nope. It's not that simple though. It's all relative to picks. I mean the 2019 draft has twice the draft capital, heck maybe three times the amount and we had an epic 2018 draft. You seem focused on single draft classes, I look at talent. Combine the 2017 and 2018 draft and few teams have done better. I look at this draft as important do to the amount of draft capital they have, not because we need to infuse talent or we'll suck. A so so 2019 draft is going to produce a bunch of talent just based on the amount of picks. Like I said before an epic draft sets them up to dominate the NFL for the next 5 plus years. What to you think a good average NFL draft is given a full seven pick, picking at the end of each round? How many starters, back ups, etc whatever you use to grade a draft overall? I also think how we view Wise makes a huge difference. You seem to look at him as OK. On the surface I get that, 9.5 sacks in two years isn't an eye popping number. Yet he averages over a QB hit a game. Very similar to Flowers in a lot of ways. He's likely not as good overall but he's going to be an above average starting DE. He's a big part of our Superbowl run in my book. He generates preasure and plays the run very well, you can also move him around like Flowers. I see him as a big reason why Flowers took off the last two years. You’re missing or ignoring the point. Can’t tell If you just want to argue something I’m not arguing or not. I’m talking about staggering contracts and having an influx of cheap contracts. I’ve already said they used the 2017 draft really well but you can’t use a draft class that way every year (and they don’t). Wynn doesn’t count in the 2017 draft for what I’m discussing. He’s a 2018 draft pick and his contract runs that way. You seem to think I’m knocking the Patriots, which couldn’t be further from the truth. Long term they need this draft and they know it that’s why they have all these picks. The more you win the more you need the draft to keep it going. As far as Wise goes, to this point he’s been a solid not spectacular player. He grades out as average and he played 41% of the snaps last year (31 of 65 in the SB -47%). He’s good in a limited role and he could keep improving and be even better. He played the same amount as Elandon Roberts and less than Malcolm Brown, who missed a game. Wise is fine and he’s the type of cheap player a team needs and he plays a good role. But that’s what it’s been to this point. He’s one of the rotation guys. He hasn’t broken into the Van Noy, Hightower, Flowers area as key cogs in the front 7 type players. But wouldn’t be a surprise if he took that step. I like him. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 14, 2019 15:12:44 GMT -5
The Patriots have to come away from this draft with a QB, right? Brady will be 42. I mean, I think he's superman, but he is mortal. No not if they get a 2-3 year commitment from Brady. They ARE looking hard, but they won’t force it. That article posted puts what they want in perspective and gives you a lot of insight into why they didn’t draft Lamar Jackson, Mason Rudolph and any of the other guys last year. They preferred Etling even tho they knew he wasn’t ready because he had certain qualities. If they find that guy they’ll take him this year. They need to figure out how to get the first overall pick in 2 years for Trevor Lawrence... who’s gonna suck? Trade them a second for their first in 2 years - they are probably dumb... Miami screws up their tank job and Flores isn’t ready? Or maybe Brady finally falls apart and gets hurt after winning another super bowl next year, Gronk, Hightower and the McCourty’s retire and the Patriots tank to get him and the dynasty starts again. (This was all a joke so don’t jump on it as it were serious) |
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 14, 2019 20:45:18 GMT -5
Two young interesting free agents to watch this year are Devin Funchess and Jesse James... it really depends how much they get. Funchess value may be depressed as he didn’t have a very good year last season. He’s a big body, outside guy. Not my favorite but someone to keep an eye on.
James would be a nice Gronk replacement. Even if Gronk is back, he’s a good enough blocker that you can cut Allen and replace his contract slot with James. The Steelers have Vance McDonald so they may not resign James, but there’s always a chance someone offers stupid money. If not though, I really like him and he could be sneaky good value... consider me excited by the positivity.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 15, 2019 5:08:31 GMT -5
Would a Wynn, Wise, Butler, and Rivers class kill us? Nope. It's not that simple though. It's all relative to picks. I mean the 2019 draft has twice the draft capital, heck maybe three times the amount and we had an epic 2018 draft. You seem focused on single draft classes, I look at talent. Combine the 2017 and 2018 draft and few teams have done better. I look at this draft as important do to the amount of draft capital they have, not because we need to infuse talent or we'll suck. A so so 2019 draft is going to produce a bunch of talent just based on the amount of picks. Like I said before an epic draft sets them up to dominate the NFL for the next 5 plus years. What to you think a good average NFL draft is given a full seven pick, picking at the end of each round? How many starters, back ups, etc whatever you use to grade a draft overall? I also think how we view Wise makes a huge difference. You seem to look at him as OK. On the surface I get that, 9.5 sacks in two years isn't an eye popping number. Yet he averages over a QB hit a game. Very similar to Flowers in a lot of ways. He's likely not as good overall but he's going to be an above average starting DE. He's a big part of our Superbowl run in my book. He generates preasure and plays the run very well, you can also move him around like Flowers. I see him as a big reason why Flowers took off the last two years. You’re missing or ignoring the point. Can’t tell If you just want to argue something I’m not arguing or not. I’m talking about staggering contracts and having an influx of cheap contracts. I’ve already said they used the 2017 draft really well but you can’t use a draft class that way every year (and they don’t). Wynn doesn’t count in the 2017 draft for what I’m discussing. He’s a 2018 draft pick and his contract runs that way. You seem to think I’m knocking the Patriots, which couldn’t be further from the truth. Long term they need this draft and they know it that’s why they have all these picks. The more you win the more you need the draft to keep it going. As far as Wise goes, to this point he’s been a solid not spectacular player. He grades out as average and he played 41% of the snaps last year (31 of 65 in the SB -47%). He’s good in a limited role and he could keep improving and be even better. He played the same amount as Elandon Roberts and less than Malcolm Brown, who missed a game. Wise is fine and he’s the type of cheap player a team needs and he plays a good role. But that’s what it’s been to this point. He’s one of the rotation guys. He hasn’t broken into the Van Noy, Hightower, Flowers area as key cogs in the front 7 type players. But wouldn’t be a surprise if he took that step. I like him. I don't know you seem to be making three points from what I can tell. We need this draft to replace guys making over a million. 2017 was a bad draft and thus this draft is crazy important. Plus were in that point of a cycle that makes 2019 crazy important. To that last point what does the 2017 draft have to do with the 2019 draft? It's replacing the 2015 draft or if you buy the year early thing 2016, not 2017. Nevermind they could lock up the top 3 guys from that 2015 draft, meaning not a ton to replace right? If you want to talk about cycles Wynn and Michel will or can be under team control that extra year. Those two guys aren't going anywhere and won't be free agents in 3 years. It's why nailing first round picks is so important and why that 2017 needs to be looked at differently, you just pushed it back. Not like you waisted it. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 15, 2019 7:41:12 GMT -5
You’re missing or ignoring the point. Can’t tell If you just want to argue something I’m not arguing or not. I’m talking about staggering contracts and having an influx of cheap contracts. I’ve already said they used the 2017 draft really well but you can’t use a draft class that way every year (and they don’t). Wynn doesn’t count in the 2017 draft for what I’m discussing. He’s a 2018 draft pick and his contract runs that way. You seem to think I’m knocking the Patriots, which couldn’t be further from the truth. Long term they need this draft and they know it that’s why they have all these picks. The more you win the more you need the draft to keep it going. As far as Wise goes, to this point he’s been a solid not spectacular player. He grades out as average and he played 41% of the snaps last year (31 of 65 in the SB -47%). He’s good in a limited role and he could keep improving and be even better. He played the same amount as Elandon Roberts and less than Malcolm Brown, who missed a game. Wise is fine and he’s the type of cheap player a team needs and he plays a good role. But that’s what it’s been to this point. He’s one of the rotation guys. He hasn’t broken into the Van Noy, Hightower, Flowers area as key cogs in the front 7 type players. But wouldn’t be a surprise if he took that step. I like him. I don't know you seem to be making three points from what I can tell. We need this draft to replace guys making over a million. 2017 was a bad draft and thus this draft is crazy important. Plus were in that point of a cycle that makes 2019 crazy important. You singled 2017 out, not me. But as far as young player capital from 2017 it was a low yield draft. Which is fine, they felt the draft was weak, but it also came on the heels of another low yield draft (which at the time didn’t seem to be) in 2016. To be clear they used the 2017 draft really well at the time. So now what we have is 2 straight years where they didn’t get a lot of bodies from the draft. When something like that happens you end up having to compensate by paying veterans more money for the back end and middle of your rosters which limits what you can spend on the top end of the roster. Now the top end of our roster is getting older and some of the young guys we got from 2015 need to be paid. The way to deal with that is a strong influx of young cheap talent. They got some last year but most of it was injured, unfortunately, so we aren’t exactly sure what we have. It’s just part of the cycle, which is why I laid out the last 4 drafts. They didn’t do anything wrong but as far as drafts go this one is more important than some other years is which makes me excited for it. Besides roster dollars and cents the influx of new talent that hasn’t won is important to keep fueling the team’s competitive fire. They can do that by bringing in veterans off the street too. |
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