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Post by voiceofreason on May 19, 2019 5:57:06 GMT -5
I find the disparity in contracts between Watson and Seferian-Jenkins interesting, so many factors but they must like what they think Watson brings to the table. Maybe I should be more concerned with ASJs ability to stay on the field as it seems to me he is productive when he is. Maybe he gets his shit together with the Pats, he is a beast and could be a big factor in both the running and passing game.
That makes 2 big physical freaks the Pats just signed for small money that could be big contributors on the field. Jamie Collins is a welcome addition, last time he was here he was a Pro Bowler and he could be a again with more discipline.
Watching aggressive D is always more fun and Collins is an explosive athlete and ASJ is also.
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Post by rjp313jr on May 19, 2019 6:30:06 GMT -5
From Miguel at BSJ (pay wall)... this just sheds more light on how salary guarantees and signing bonuses work for UDFA. Before these guys were released the signing bonuses were spread across 3 years, but once released the full amount goes on to the current year cap as dead money... insignificant stuff here but it’s about the mechanism. If these players cleared waivers, the Patriots would be responsible for the salary guarantee if they didn’t get paid by another team, but once a team signed them then they would be responsible for it. 5. On May 14, the Patriots waived undrafted free agent (UDFA) wide receiver Xavier Ubosi. His $3,500 signing bonus will now count as dead money on New England’s salary cap. By claiming Ubosi, the Jets became responsible for his $10,000 salary guarantee. 6. On May 14, they also waived UDFA offensive tackle Calvin Anderson. His $5,000 signing bonus will now count as dead money on their salary cap. By claiming Anderson, the Jets became responsible for Anderson’s $25,000 salary guarantee. www.bostonsportsjournal.com/2019/05/17/salary-cap-recap-05-17-19-measuring-impact-of-collins-king-deals/ |
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Post by rjp313jr on May 19, 2019 6:33:22 GMT -5
Collins is a guy I’m getting more excited about as I read more. As suspected, Cleveland misused him by playing him outside far too often. Bill won’t make that mistake again. Roberts will be a Lion or Dolphin before the end of training camp unless there’s an injury. Collins replacing Roberts offers more flexibility and a better back up to Bentley as injuries have been an issue for Bentley going back thru college.
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Post by voiceofreason on May 19, 2019 7:54:09 GMT -5
Same with me, the more I read and think about it the more optimistic I become with Collins. A mature more disciplined Collins could/should be better than the younger version. Both he and Jenkins have something to prove.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 19, 2019 8:12:38 GMT -5
Money can be a powerful motivator and we have a ton of Vets that took small deals hoping to become the next Brown or Flowers.
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Post by voiceofreason on May 19, 2019 15:35:49 GMT -5
Money can be a powerful motivator and we have a ton of Vets that took small deals hoping to become the next Brown or Flowers. Money and Super Bowls, which are tied at the hip. I had some concerns about next years team based on the holes at the start of the offseason but I am pretty bullish at the moment. I think I am also more optimistic than most in what Demaryius Thomas could bring to the table, from no weapons to many. |
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Post by rjp313jr on May 20, 2019 6:08:00 GMT -5
Money can be a powerful motivator and we have a ton of Vets that took small deals hoping to become the next Brown or Flowers. Money and Super Bowls, which are tied at the hip. I had some concerns about next years team based on the holes at the start of the offseason but I am pretty bullish at the moment. I think I am also more optimistic than most in what Demaryius Thomas could bring to the table, from no weapons to many. It’s funny, Super Bowls aren’t that big a motivator for the stars in the league. Who was the last veteran who still had a lot left that took less money to sign here to win a SB? You see what UMass said, guys coming earlier to rebuild value to get paid, but those guys aren’t giving up money. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 20, 2019 11:07:32 GMT -5
Well yeah no elite player is giving up 10's of millions for a chance to win a championship. Not when most of those guys are getting their first big payday. You don't see that in any sport.
At the same time Jenkins and Collins seem to have given up money. They basically both took Vet minimum deals and I'm sure some team would have paid more. Kinda same with Jared V. the OT we signed, I'd bet he could have got more money. At the very least less incentives and more upfront.
It's really the Patriot way, a bunch of smaller signings compared to big ones, even if it was a good deal. Gives you depth the rest of the league just doesn't have.
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Post by kingofthetrill on May 20, 2019 11:27:30 GMT -5
It’s funny, Super Bowls aren’t that big a motivator for the stars in the league. Who was the last veteran who still had a lot left that took less money to sign here to win a SB?You see what UMass said, guys coming earlier to rebuild value to get paid, but those guys aren’t giving up money. Didn't Chris Long do it? |
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Post by rjp313jr on May 20, 2019 15:39:12 GMT -5
Well yeah no elite player is giving up 10's of millions for a chance to win a championship. Not when most of those guys are getting their first big payday. You don't see that in any sport. At the same time Jenkins and Collins seem to have given up money. They basically both took Vet minimum deals and I'm sure some team would have paid more. Kinda same with Jared V. the OT we signed, I'd bet he could have got more money. At the very least less incentives and more upfront. It's really the Patriot way, a bunch of smaller signings compared to big ones, even if it was a good deal. Gives you depth the rest of the league just doesn't have. It happens in the NBA but those guys make obscene money early... I don’t think any of those guys mentioned passed up big money and if they make the team they got pretty decent contracts... 2 guys coming off injuries and Collins just wasn’t wanted |
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Post by rjp313jr on May 20, 2019 15:40:09 GMT -5
It’s funny, Super Bowls aren’t that big a motivator for the stars in the league. Who was the last veteran who still had a lot left that took less money to sign here to win a SB?You see what UMass said, guys coming earlier to rebuild value to get paid, but those guys aren’t giving up money. Didn't Chris Long do it? I don’t know about that but I doubt it was much money considering he asked for his release the next year to make similar money but he’s definitely cut from a different cloth so it’s possible |
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Post by rjp313jr on May 20, 2019 15:52:46 GMT -5
Pats resigned Shelton so there’s your DT depth
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Post by rjp313jr on May 20, 2019 15:53:05 GMT -5
Can we carry 60 players this year
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 20, 2019 16:56:56 GMT -5
Well yeah no elite player is giving up 10's of millions for a chance to win a championship. Not when most of those guys are getting their first big payday. You don't see that in any sport. At the same time Jenkins and Collins seem to have given up money. They basically both took Vet minimum deals and I'm sure some team would have paid more. Kinda same with Jared V. the OT we signed, I'd bet he could have got more money. At the very least less incentives and more upfront. It's really the Patriot way, a bunch of smaller signings compared to big ones, even if it was a good deal. Gives you depth the rest of the league just doesn't have. It happens in the NBA but those guys make obscene money early... I don’t think any of those guys mentioned passed up big money and if they make the team they got pretty decent contracts... 2 guys coming off injuries and Collins just wasn’t wanted Like who in the NBA passes up big money for a chance at a Championship? Cousins is the only guy that comes to mind, but he was injured and he figured he'd get more by doing that. Get healthy then sign a max deal this year. |
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Post by rjp313jr on May 20, 2019 17:33:54 GMT -5
It happens in the NBA but those guys make obscene money early... I don’t think any of those guys mentioned passed up big money and if they make the team they got pretty decent contracts... 2 guys coming off injuries and Collins just wasn’t wanted Like who in the NBA passes up big money for a chance at a Championship? Cousins is the only guy that comes to mind, but he was injured and he figured he'd get more by doing that. Get healthy then sign a max deal this year. David West gave up a TON of money recently to do that. Other guys are always signing mid level deals when they could get bigger ones. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 20, 2019 18:11:58 GMT -5
I just don't think I'd put David West in the column of Veterans with a lot left. He was already on the decline in a big way and did it at age 35.
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Post by rjp313jr on May 21, 2019 5:55:24 GMT -5
I just don't think I'd put David West in the column of Veterans with a lot left. He was already on the decline in a big way and did it at age 35. Perhaps, if you want to go with the “a lot left” but he declined a huge player option to be a free agent to sign with a contender then resigned again for a lot less than he would have gotten so he still had a lot more left than his new salary. It’s easier to do in the NBA tho after you’ve made your set for life money by 28. |
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Post by rjp313jr on May 21, 2019 5:57:07 GMT -5
McCoy cut by Tampa... I wonder if the Pats would want him... do they even have room? Not so sure Shelton even affects it as they are completely different types of DTs...
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Post by voiceofreason on May 21, 2019 7:42:46 GMT -5
McCoy cut by Tampa... I wonder if the Pats would want him... do they even have room? Not so sure Shelton even affects it as they are completely different types of DTs... Shelton is interesting given he was a healthy scratch for I think 4 games at least. This is the kind of depth that won't even be on some game day rosters, must be a cheap contract and I would prefer McCoy over Shelton. McCoy would be a great addition, wonder if he falls into that category of wanting to win vet. |
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Post by texs31 on May 21, 2019 8:04:28 GMT -5
The 2nd BIG DT's participation will likely depend on what they use as a base. He's not a part of the most often used sub package so the NT is used for the base and the goal line sets.
If they stay 4-3 base, you can probably get away without a 2nd NT being active. Guy and Pennel are 1st string and Butler could back 1 up (I know even in 4-3, the DTs do different things but in a pinch . . .).
However, if they are going 3-4, you'd ideally have 2 guys who can play NT. Not sure if either Guy or Butler could roll into that position or not. Parry is the other guy in the discussion.
As to McCoy, I dont know his game a ton but he would seem to be closer to Guy than Shelton.
Related, I saw a suggestion that Indy would be an ideal match for him (and vice versa)
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Post by rjp313jr on May 21, 2019 10:01:13 GMT -5
I think they’ve moved beyond thinking about building their defense in terms of 4-3 and 3-4. They want tools to play any type of front.
Shelton was inactive for the teams that were basically one dimensional passing offenses or teams they wanted to run (KC playoffs). He graded out really well as the year went on. Could have a big year 2 in his role.
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Post by texs31 on May 21, 2019 10:08:53 GMT -5
I agree that they need guys to play multiple fronts/positions. When projecting a depth chart, it's probably wiser to try to go 2-deep at all the positions in each set.
However, from a coaching standpoint, I would think it VERY difficult to teach new personnel too many schemes. Based on reports (I'm no coach so I have to go by that), a multi-front base would be new (ie, to date, they've had 1 base set to use along with their sub 4-2-5). Snap percentages from the last couple of years (for some reason, I track these) would seem to indicate similar personnel packages (clear distinction between 4-2 sub and 4-3 base).
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Post by texs31 on May 21, 2019 10:09:33 GMT -5
Edelman getting 2 year extension per several reports
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Post by texs31 on May 21, 2019 11:01:52 GMT -5
Best Laid Plans
Velheer has informed the Pats he is retiring (Reiss)
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 21, 2019 11:09:32 GMT -5
I just don't think I'd put David West in the column of Veterans with a lot left. He was already on the decline in a big way and did it at age 35. Perhaps, if you want to go with the “a lot left” but he declined a huge player option to be a free agent to sign with a contender then resigned again for a lot less than he would have gotten so he still had a lot more left than his new salary. It’s easier to do in the NBA tho after you’ve made your set for life money by 28. I was just using your description. I don't really think it's money, a ton of guys make huge money in the NFL. It's the physical beating they take. It's easy for older Vets in the NBA to take minimum deals to play lesser roles to chase a Championship. They don't take the physical beating guys in the NFL do. If you want deals most of those are guys that restructure or sign extension for the Patriots. That is a very long list. |
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