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2019 Celtics Offseason Thread
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Post by philarhody on Jun 21, 2019 9:59:45 GMT -5
It’s awesome that we are going to start getting to the line more. Does anyone else feel like Waters might be a much better player than Edwards? He sort of reminds me of Chris Paul
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 21, 2019 10:03:19 GMT -5
It’s awesome that we are going to start getting to the line more. Does anyone else feel like Waters might be a much better player than Edwards? He sort of reminds me of Chris Paul I just don’t see Waters, at his size being able to last in the NBA. Edwards is a bit bigger but the biggest thing is he should be able to score. |
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Post by philarhody on Jun 21, 2019 10:10:39 GMT -5
It’s awesome that we are going to start getting to the line more. Does anyone else feel like Waters might be a much better player than Edwards? He sort of reminds me of Chris Paul I just don’t see Waters, at his size being able to last in the NBA. Edwards is a bit bigger but the biggest thing is he should be able to score. Yeah you’re probably right about Waters. I love watching his game though. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 21, 2019 10:21:28 GMT -5
I love Romeo’s quotes. Guy has moxie... will get real annoying tho if he can’t score lol
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Post by philarhody on Jun 21, 2019 10:22:15 GMT -5
Max Free Agent Offer Order:
Boogie
Brogdon
Vuc
Russell
Randle
There is no way that anyone would have argued that Vuc was worth a max over Boogie a year ago. Boogie is better in every single category. His on court attitude sucks sometimes, but he really gives a rip. He would have to be ok not having the offense run through him every single possession, but he was a trooper and quite unselfish this season as he recovered from a major ACL injury.
Brogdon is an extremely efficient third option who is a multi positional defender. He fits no matter who you have on your team.
Vuc is going to be a huge liability on defense. It’s hard to imagine paying the max to a guy who might not be able to stay on the court in the final two minutes of playoff games. Can you imagine him getting switched onto Giannis during key moments of big games?
Russell is just as ball dominant as Kyrie. That spells trouble for the young core.
Randle is a horrible defender and a totally one sided player.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 21, 2019 11:32:08 GMT -5
Would argue that dropping 15-25M on someone is a tad different than drafting a guy 14th or 33rd. As of now, is there even an obvious spot in the rotation for Langford? His fit is a ways away depending on what they do the rest of the offseason. I have to believe they have plans to play him, they Play all their high picks. His role is certainly TBD, yet I don't think he'll be Williams either. Like they found minutes for raw guys like Brown and Rozier. You don't want to just red-shirt a lottery pick, that's not going to help his development. Edwards certainly has things to work on, but his offense is NBA ready. I might be reading too much into it. Maybe Danny wanted that extra space not to keep Rozier, yet get Russell and still have close to ten million left for another free agent big. He has some options, yet he did go guard crazy in the draft and made a weak front court weaker. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 21, 2019 11:52:36 GMT -5
It’s awesome that we are going to start getting to the line more. Does anyone else feel like Waters might be a much better player than Edwards? He sort of reminds me of Chris Paul He's a very interesting prospect, great basketball IQ, can really run a team, had really good steal numbers and those are crazy important for guards. The most impressive thing? He had a higher vertical than Thomas did, 40" vs 40.5". 6' 2.25" wingspan. His size is the only thing stopping him, even then if he's closer to the shooter he was as a freshman, he could be a good back up in time. The fact he was a standout defender in College, with that type of vertical gives him a decent chance. He does need to add weight, look at Thomas he was small but jacked. Very solid pick in my opinion. Like who doesn't want to see Edwards and Waters playing together?😁 |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 21, 2019 11:57:27 GMT -5
It’s awesome that we are going to start getting to the line more. Does anyone else feel like Waters might be a much better player than Edwards? He sort of reminds me of Chris Paul I just don’t see Waters, at his size being able to last in the NBA. Edwards is a bit bigger but the biggest thing is he should be able to score. Edwards better be able to score or he has no role in the NBA and we just threw a pick away. He wasn't drafted for his passing, creating for others or D. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 21, 2019 12:11:21 GMT -5
I just don’t see Waters, at his size being able to last in the NBA. Edwards is a bit bigger but the biggest thing is he should be able to score. Edwards better be able to score or he has no role in the NBA and we just threw a pick away. He wasn't drafted for his passing, creating for others or D. Well they didn’t throw a pick away, the idea is he can score but if he can’t he won’t make it. It’s a second round pick; he’s not even guaranteed a contract. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 21, 2019 12:51:58 GMT -5
Markel Fultz for Jason Tatum and Romeo Langford... who won the deal
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 21, 2019 13:29:03 GMT -5
Edwards better be able to score or he has no role in the NBA and we just threw a pick away. He wasn't drafted for his passing, creating for others or D. Well they didn’t throw a pick away, the idea is he can score but if he can’t he won’t make it. It’s a second round pick; he’s not even guaranteed a contract. We look at prospect differently. You don't draft him thinking he can't score, when that's all he does. Like I have zero worries he'll score. It's how efficiently he can do it, what else can he do, how negative is his D, and can he finish at the rim in the NBA at a good enough level. I also don't look at high second round picks as nothing because it's non-guaranteed. Given the salary cap they are crazy important. Like does your opinion change if they pick him in the first round? Take an upside guy and you miss I have zero issues. Take a guy like Edwards, you shouldn't get that wrong. It's like taking a shooter who only shoots, yet saying you got that wrong. It just shouldn't happen. Maybe he's not as good as you thought, but the guy better be able to score and he will. At worst he's a high level three point shooter. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 21, 2019 13:44:20 GMT -5
Well they didn’t throw a pick away, the idea is he can score but if he can’t he won’t make it. It’s a second round pick; he’s not even guaranteed a contract. We look at prospect differently. You don't draft him thinking he can't score, when that's all he does. Like I have zero worries he'll score. It's how efficiently he can do it, what else can he do, how negative is his D, and can he finish at the rim in the NBA at a good enough level. I also don't look at high second round picks as nothing because it's non-guaranteed. Given the salary cap they are crazy important. Like does your opinion change if they pick him in the first round? Take an upside guy and you miss I have zero issues. Take a guy like Edwards, you shouldn't get that wrong. It's like taking a shooter who only shoots, yet saying you got that wrong. It just shouldn't happen. Maybe he's not as good as you thought, but the guy better be able to score and he will. At worst he's a high level three point shooter. I really don’t get what you’re interring. We both agree on the player. I think he will score. If he doesn’t he’s a bust. That’s not a throw away pick. Taking a shot and missing happens. A throw away pick is taking someone who has next to no chance. Like taking a 21 year old euro because you just want to stash someone. Semantics maybe but I just don’t think taking a chance in Edwards is a throw away. I never meant to indicate I thought Danny drafted him thinking he wouldn’t be able to score. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 21, 2019 14:06:49 GMT -5
I don’t think Randle is on their radar.... I’m thinking they feel he’s a 4 and Tatum and him don’t fit well. Can Tatum, Randle and Williams fit in a lineup together?
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 21, 2019 14:56:55 GMT -5
Randle best numbers, espically defensively are as a small ball five. He's kinda just like Horford, natural PF, but can play small ball five. The one huge difference, is he won't be able to handle the Embiids of the world like Horford could and he won't be able to switch like him. Yet in theory he should be good at switching, he's a very good athlete. Yet he's never played on teams that play good D. Heck those Lakers teams didn't play any D.
I love the fit of Williams, Randle and Tatum. My only question would be is Williams ready?
I really think the Magic resign Vuc and if they do who do you go after if no Randle?
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 21, 2019 15:00:35 GMT -5
Just thinking out loud, but what would it take to get a Cousins? Like he's not a max guy right now, not even close. Certainly not my first choice, but you need options and skill wise he's a great fit. Like does he take a four year 80 million deal?
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 21, 2019 15:01:07 GMT -5
Ok I did my spreadsheets and I think I have this right and this probably isn't any new information that hasn't already been posted here, but here it goes:
The below all assumes they renounce the rights to the following guys:
Kyrie
Horford
Morris
Gibson
Theis
Larkin
Wannamaker
Hunter
Dozier
Some of these guys they won't renounce rights for unless they have to, meaning they are using the space to sign someone, but for the below numbers the rights are renounced.
A couple notes:
Semi's contract is fully non-guaranteed so they can cut him with no cap charge.
open roster holds are annoying to deal with but the charge is $897,158 for every open spot under 12
Yabu's contract is 3,117,240 - they could look at trading that into space if they need more money, but doing so adds another open spot so the cap add is 2,220,082
Theis hold is 1,818,486...
It appears second round picks don't have cap holds... I'm guessing it's because they'd be less than the open roster hold and their contracts aren't guaranteed
Current space assuming the above, which means they keep Rozier and Semi is $25,534,886
Space w/ Rozier but w/out Semi is 26,256,248
Space w/ Semi but w/out Rozier is $33,788,898
Space w/out both Semi and Rozier is 34,510,260
Space w/out Semi, Rozier and Yabu is $36,730,342
Current roster:
Hayward $32,700,690.00
Smart $12,053,471.00
Tatum $7,830,000.00
Brown $6,534,829.00
Yabu $3,117,240.00
R. Williams $1,937,520.00
Semi $1,618,520.00
Langford $3,453,720
G. Williams $2,376,480
Rozier $9,151,170
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 21, 2019 15:03:02 GMT -5
Randle best numbers, espically defensively are as a small ball five. He's kinda just like Horford, natural PF, but can play small ball five. The one huge difference, is he won't be able to handle the Embiids of the world like Horford could and he won't be able to switch like him. Yet in theory he should be good at switching, he's a very good athlete. Yet he's never played on teams that play good D. Heck those Lakers teams didn't play any D. I love the fit of Williams, Randle and Tatum. My only question would be is Williams ready? I really think the Magic resign Vuc and if they do who do you go after if no Randle? I'd go after Randle, I'm just trying to predict what the Celtics will do. I've heard nothing regarding them and Randle and I've never heard of them linked to him for whatever reason.... |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 21, 2019 15:05:08 GMT -5
Just thinking out loud, but what would it take to get a Cousins? Like he's not a max guy right now, not even close. Certainly not my first choice, but you need options and skill wise he's a great fit. Like does he take a four year 80 million deal? I feel like Cousins should be a guy, but how hung up are they on the good guy culture they just drafted? Brooks Lopez is probably a guy we will see them linked to, like it or not. |
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,861
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Post by wcp3 on Jun 21, 2019 15:28:58 GMT -5
Randle is not going to happen. Cousins would be interesting if they could get him on a short-term deal, but my guess is he ends up back in GS.
I’m curious how much of a pay cut Tremont Waters will take going from LSU to a late 2nd rounder.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 21, 2019 15:30:58 GMT -5
Tacky Fall signed summer league contract with Celtics... i like that move - might as well
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ianrs
Veteran
Posts: 2,451 
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Post by ianrs on Jun 21, 2019 15:46:12 GMT -5
Celtics sign Tacko Fall - love it! Low risk, medium reward for a specialized player. Even if he just plays a Boban type of role, that's a win.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 21, 2019 15:54:41 GMT -5
Celtics sign Tacko Fall - love it! Low risk, medium reward for a specialized player. Even if he just plays a Boban type of role, that's a win. He pretty much shut down Zion... speaking of... i said this during the year and will again. I worry about Zion in the NBA... he’s a bad shooter - he can’t shoot free throws and his mechanics are lousy. At one point he was trying to have his toes at a 45 degree angle to the hoop as opposed to pointing at it because that was the best way to square his shoulders. I really hope he’s a stud - love the guy and he’s fun to watch. I just worry he’s not going to be a star and anything short of that with the hoopla around him is a big disappointment. Won’t call him a bust as he will have a career but I don’t think he’s going to be a franchise player. |
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,861
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Post by wcp3 on Jun 21, 2019 16:06:04 GMT -5
I think some of your concerns are fair, but I also think you’re underestimating how much of an impact the NCAA’s archaic rubles have on talented players. When you combine the closer 3-point line with the lack of defensive 3 seconds, there’s essentially zero room in the paint for athletic players to operate.
There’s a reason Jaylen looked so underwhelming in college but his athleticism was instantly noticeable once he got to the league.
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Post by voiceofreason on Jun 21, 2019 16:43:54 GMT -5
Grant Williams will be a Draymond Green type player for the C's, I hope.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 21, 2019 17:47:00 GMT -5
Randle best numbers, espically defensively are as a small ball five. He's kinda just like Horford, natural PF, but can play small ball five. The one huge difference, is he won't be able to handle the Embiids of the world like Horford could and he won't be able to switch like him. Yet in theory he should be good at switching, he's a very good athlete. Yet he's never played on teams that play good D. Heck those Lakers teams didn't play any D. I love the fit of Williams, Randle and Tatum. My only question would be is Williams ready? I really think the Magic resign Vuc and if they do who do you go after if no Randle? I'd go after Randle, I'm just trying to predict what the Celtics will do. I've heard nothing regarding them and Randle and I've never heard of them linked to him for whatever reason.... The idea of cap space is what four days old? I've seen one report saying Vuc would be a guy, like what have you seen? |
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