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2019 Celtics Offseason Thread
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 30, 2019 10:23:47 GMT -5
I saw a tweet that said: “If you just woke up from a 12 month coma the Celtics team that just made it to game 7 of the ECF just replaced Terry Rozier and Al Horford with Kemba Walker and a healthy Gordon Hayward.” If nothing else it’s a nice way of looking at things. Mine was Williams becomes David West 2.0 and shows why Danny is the draft master.😁 My initial reaction to the pick was being upset they took him and now I’m irrationally high on him from day one. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 30, 2019 10:40:16 GMT -5
So it seems pretty clear Kyrie is going to Brooklyn and it has nothing to do with KD. Yes, he’s trying to get him there but Kyrie is going regardless.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 30, 2019 10:51:28 GMT -5
Mine was Williams becomes David West 2.0 and shows why Danny is the draft master.😁 My initial reaction to the pick was being upset they took him and now I’m irrationally high on him from day one. I can't complain given how things worked out, trading back got us Walker. Yet man I would have loved both Clarke and Williams. You have to love everything about Williams besides his size and athletic ability. Not a great Jumper, but he did have rather quick movement skills for a big. So I can see him being a good offensive player. It's his D that worries me and will determine his upside. On the plus side he's a very bright young adult, having turned down offers from Harvard and Yale. |
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Post by texs31 on Jun 30, 2019 11:01:49 GMT -5
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 30, 2019 11:19:27 GMT -5
Good stuff all around. I was a believer early and often but really, f*ck you Kyrie. Now please get Nerlens Noel and let's all pretend last season never happened. Noel hasn't played much, but his numbers are good, like really good. In today's NBA his defensive numbers are off the charts. Can he guard players like Embiid? He certainly has the size, athletic ability, but does he have the girth and strength? If he's a minimum guy I take him all day long and he just came off a minimum deal. In this market he might not get more and we can give him minutes. Then sign a small ball center that can shoot like Vonleh or Green. I'd even gamble on a Trey Lyles if you wanted a risky offensive weapon with upside. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 30, 2019 11:34:08 GMT -5
We've talked about the Pacers young bigs being trade targets. We haven't talked about T. J. Leaf who never plays but is a shooter at the PF spot. Could be a good buy low guy if the Pacers would trade him.
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Post by tizzle on Jun 30, 2019 11:45:20 GMT -5
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Post by texs31 on Jun 30, 2019 11:48:27 GMT -5
Albert Nahmad is another great cap guy. He lays out the very improbable bit possible scenario:
If Celtics can (i) convince Nets to take in Kyrie Irving via S&T and (ii) convince a suitor to take Terry Rozier into room via S&T, they could potentially acquire Kemba Walker at $32.7M max in a 3-team trade AND keep free agent rights to everyone (Al Horford, Marcus Morris, etc).
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 30, 2019 12:04:54 GMT -5
Albert Nahmad is another great cap guy. He lays out the very improbable bit possible scenario: If Celtics can (i) convince Nets to take in Kyrie Irving via S&T and (ii) convince a suitor to take Terry Rozier into room via S&T, they could potentially acquire Kemba Walker at $32.7M max in a 3-team trade AND keep free agent rights to everyone (Al Horford, Marcus Morris, etc). Why would you need those steps, does he explain it? Why couldn't you just use the trade exception from Irving to trade for Walker straight up? |
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Post by tizzle on Jun 30, 2019 12:12:30 GMT -5
Albert Nahmad is another great cap guy. He lays out the very improbable bit possible scenario: If Celtics can (i) convince Nets to take in Kyrie Irving via S&T and (ii) convince a suitor to take Terry Rozier into room via S&T, they could potentially acquire Kemba Walker at $32.7M max in a 3-team trade AND keep free agent rights to everyone (Al Horford, Marcus Morris, etc). Why would you need those steps, does he explain it? Why couldn't you just use the trade exception from Irving to trade for Walker straight up? I don't get it either, but I'm pretty sure the exemption from dealing Irving would only be between 20-21 mil, so that wouldn't work. |
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Post by Don Caballero on Jun 30, 2019 12:14:11 GMT -5
Noel hasn't played much, but his numbers are good, like really good. In today's NBA his defensive numbers are off the charts. Can he guard players like Embiid? He certainly has the size, athletic ability, but does he have the girth and strength? If he's a minimum guy I take him all day long and he just came off a minimum deal. In this market he might not get more and we can give him minutes. Then sign a small ball center that can shoot like Vonleh or Green. I'd even gamble on a Trey Lyles if you wanted a risky offensive weapon with upside. Don't know what Noel would do with extended play time, but I think he could fit the Baynes role reasonably well. He's a big body that finishes well and stands his ground on defense. He isn't quite the defender that Baynes is and to be fair few players in the league are, but he has some upside and a lot of athleticism to level that somewhat. I loved him in the past and I still believe in him, I think he could be very solid. A bit unrelated, but since we talked about defense I thought I might bring it up. Walker is a good defender. He gave up just 31 points on 60 ISO plays last season and he was well above average defending the post. He isn't spectacular, but he can hold his own even for a short guy. Well you compare that to Kyrie being a worse defender than IT when he got here (no hyperbole) and also add into it the fact that Kemba generally pushes the pace harder than Kyrie, yeah, there's a lot of reason for optimism. Danny is so good at his job it should be illegal lol. Back on track, can we afford Vonleh? Green and Lyles yeah it's doable, but I think Vonleh might have played himself out of our price range. |
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Post by texs31 on Jun 30, 2019 12:17:23 GMT -5
Asking now. Waiting to see if Keith or Albert responds.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 30, 2019 12:18:07 GMT -5
Why would you need those steps, does he explain it? Why couldn't you just use the trade exception from Irving to trade for Walker straight up? I don't get it either, but I'm pretty sure the exemption from dealing Irving would only be between 20-21 mil, so that wouldn't work. They are getting the same exact contract starting at $32.7 million. So the exception would be the exact size you need to take his whole contract. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 30, 2019 12:21:32 GMT -5
Albert Nahmad is another great cap guy. He lays out the very improbable bit possible scenario: If Celtics can (i) convince Nets to take in Kyrie Irving via S&T and (ii) convince a suitor to take Terry Rozier into room via S&T, they could potentially acquire Kemba Walker at $32.7M max in a 3-team trade AND keep free agent rights to everyone (Al Horford, Marcus Morris, etc). Why would you need those steps, does he explain it? Why couldn't you just use the trade exception from Irving to trade for Walker straight up? I think it’s because you are hard capped when receiving a signed and traded player so you can’t go over to sign Al, etc. |
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Post by tizzle on Jun 30, 2019 12:23:48 GMT -5
I don't get it either, but I'm pretty sure the exemption from dealing Irving would only be between 20-21 mil, so that wouldn't work. They are getting the same exact contract starting at $32.7 million. So the exception would be the exact size you need to take his whole contract. My understanding is that a trade exception for a S&T would be based on his previous year's salary. I read that a couple of places earlier this offseason too, that it would be a bit over 20 mil for Kyrie. I don't know where that exact number comes from , but it seems to be a little more than what he got paid this season. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 30, 2019 12:28:04 GMT -5
Ok I had it backwards Charlotte would be the one that has issues, not the Celtics. We'd take on 32.7 in Walker, but it would only count for 20 million for Charlotte, yet needs to be 26 million to for the trade to work. Hence a third team is needed because Charlotte his over the cap. Still don't get why you need a Rozier sign and trade though. www.hoopsrumors.com/2019/06/why-nba-sign-and-trades-are-rare-2.html |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 30, 2019 12:30:43 GMT -5
They are getting the same exact contract starting at $32.7 million. So the exception would be the exact size you need to take his whole contract. My understanding is that a trade exception for a S&T would be based on his previous year's salary. I read that a couple of places earlier this offseason too, that it would be a bit over 20 mil for Kyrie. I don't know where that exact number comes from , but it seems to be a little more than what he got paid this season. Trade exceptions are just the difference in salary traded. I've never heard what your saying. |
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Post by tizzle on Jun 30, 2019 12:37:36 GMT -5
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 30, 2019 12:58:51 GMT -5
Ok that makes sense, that's the exact amount listed in the article I posted. It's not his last year's salary though. It's his BYC trade value. BYC are the devil, because everything is different. Like a completely different set of rules. |
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Post by tizzle on Jun 30, 2019 13:12:45 GMT -5
Ok that makes sense, that's the exact amount listed in the article I posted. It's not his last year's salary though. It's his BYC trade value. BYC are the devil, because everything is different. Like a completely different set of rules. As I said, I didn't get where the exact number came from. It seems to be slightly more than what he got last year, so I assumed the formula was based off that somehow, but no idea. |
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Post by texs31 on Jun 30, 2019 13:20:25 GMT -5
So Rozier would need to be S&T with a starting salary of 12m. 50% would be the 6 that's need to get to 26?
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Post by tizzle on Jun 30, 2019 13:24:17 GMT -5
So Rozier would need to be S&T with a starting salary of 12m. 50% would be the 6 that's need to get to 26? If you're saying what I think you're saying, you can't combine trade exceptions. |
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Post by texs31 on Jun 30, 2019 13:35:01 GMT -5
Dont think it requires that (but I'm trying to piece together from Alberts timeline).
Is it, technically:
- Rozier and Irving into BRKs space so BOS gets 26 TPE
- BRK trades Rozier to CHA
- CHA trades Kemba into BOS' new TPE
Has to be simultaneously done I guess for CHA to be able to bring in Rozier.
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Post by tizzle on Jun 30, 2019 13:42:28 GMT -5
Dont think it requires that (but I'm trying to piece together from Alberts timeline). Is it, technically: - Rozier and Irving into BRKs space so BOS gets 26 TPE - BRK trades Rozier to CHA - CHA trades Kemba into BOS' new TPE Has to be simultaneously done I guess for CHA to be able to bring in Rozier. Again, these arcane rule are sometimes completely foreign to me. But: 1. Even if you trade two players together, I am pretty sure you get two exceptions, not one. 2. Rozier would have to be a s&t, and I don't think you can do that and then have him then swapped somewhere else. Certainly not to Charlotte, who would have to keep the hold on Kemba to s&t him here, and would be over the cap at that point before taking on Rozier. |
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Post by texs31 on Jun 30, 2019 14:01:42 GMT -5
Not sure about 1 just guessing based on what these experts are saying. I trust their grasp of the rules.
As to 2, I was only laying it out that way. It isnt actually 2 separate deals but a 3 way. Just listing out for attempted clarity.
If Smith and Nahmad say it works, then I believe them.
Kyler reporting that CHA is doing background on Rozier and are leader for him.
Convincing BRK still biggest roadblock IMO.
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