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2019 Celtics Offseason Thread
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 1, 2019 15:00:49 GMT -5
Why and where in the world did people get it would cost the Memphis pick? The only report I've seen said it would cost a first. Like was there another report? One poster on this board brought up I hope it's not the Memphis pick and people jumped on it. I don't buy it was the Memphis pick for one second, that makes zero sense. What makes zero sense is the Nets taking a late first round pick to allow the Celtics to keep Horford and get a full midlevel exception. They are in the same division. This wasn’t a western conference team just trying to get an asset. The cost would have to be really high for the Nets to entertain the idea. Hence the Memphis pick is a guess as an absolute minimum. Now if you’re saying it makes no sense for the Celtics, I agree. But it makes no sense for either team to get together on something like this. I don't agree it was those types of smart moves that made the Nets good again. KD is out next year. Maybe it would have taken a little more like two late protected firsts or add a piece like Semi or something like that. Like if your crazy worried about allowing the Celtics to add a 33 year old Horford I wouldn't feel good about free agency if I were the Nets. That Grizz pick is one of the best Assets in the NBA right now given the route the Grizz have taken and the new draft rules. So we can agree to disagree on that being the minimum. This isn't the Nets helping the Celtics get a guy like Leonard. |
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Post by tizzle on Jul 1, 2019 15:05:37 GMT -5
So, we are basically out of cap to add any FAs of value now, correct?
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 1, 2019 15:10:52 GMT -5
Kanter for that money is a steal. The guy can really score and rebound. Like give him 30 minutes a night and you'll be surprised at the numbers he puts up. His D is crap though, but he's still just 26. The bigger worry is Williams and Tatum at PF next to Kanter. In Theory Robert Williams and Kanter make a great pairing. His defense is positively crap, but he did fare a bit better on that end with the Blazers and he wasn't unplayable by any means. Depth is still an issue though. There is no reason he should be so bad, like he's not Greg Monroe. He has the ability to be a league average defensive center if not slightly better. We'll see if Stevens can work his magic on an older hopefully more mature Kanter. It's almost like he's had very little interest in playing D and not that he doesn't have the ability to do so. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 1, 2019 15:12:09 GMT -5
So, we are basically out of cap to add any FAs of value now, correct? Veteran minimum guys from now on from what I see. |
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Post by texs31 on Jul 1, 2019 15:28:38 GMT -5
Himmelsbach was reporting earlier today that the maneuvering was never really about retaining Horford. Talk suggested that Al had a deal and was waiting for Philly to execute their other steps (and as discussed above, Boston wasn't willing to go as high).
So if it's not about retaining Al, I wonder if the compensation discussion is different. Doing all these as a capped team and:
Keeping Al
Retaining Morris' rights
Full MLE
Even Baynes' TPE
Might have a higher value and worth giving up a 1st rounder for. If it's just the last 3 (especially when the asset is going to one of your rivals)? That could be a different equation).
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 1, 2019 15:30:52 GMT -5
Texas seen you bring up keeping Baynes trade Exception a few times now, why do we lose that by going under the cap?
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Post by texs31 on Jul 1, 2019 15:34:20 GMT -5
My understanding is once you go under the cap, you lose ALL exceptions (except for the Room). I'll try and find the tweets that I've seen to confirm it.
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Post by tizzle on Jul 1, 2019 15:43:04 GMT -5
Another question is, can we undo the Baynes deal? If we can retain our guys due to s&ts, and Phoenix took him as part of a salary dump, could we just negate that part of the trade before it became official? Would Phoenix, or did they really want him?
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 1, 2019 15:44:18 GMT -5
Keeping Morris rights means little to me unless your trading him. That might be stupid, at minimum we could use another contract for later trades. I just don't want him back on the team. I don't want Tatum, Brown, Hayward, and Morris fighting for minutes again. I don't like that mix one bit.
Who do you get better than Kanter with full mid-level money? You could say split it up, but I bet you just end up paying Kanter more. You'd have a bigger contract, for likely more years. That could go either way frankly.
You'd get the bi-annual exception which could help, but it won't be a huge difference from a veteran minimum guy either, not in this market with so many free agents and so many teams using cap space.
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Post by texs31 on Jul 1, 2019 15:46:13 GMT -5
Best guess from Keith Smith is that Boston will execute the following steps in order:
1. Renounce all Free Agents except Theis (this wasn't actually in his tweet but inferred from others). This gets them under the cap and, not matter what happens after, they lose all exceptions but they will have the Room Exception. They can't get the Full MLE back.
2. Sign Romeo Langford and Grant Williams (this could probably go 3rd as it shouldn't have an impact on space)
3. Execute S&T with Charlotte (Rozier for Kemba and assets - likely a 2nd as suggested by others here)
4. Use remaining space to sign Carsen Edwards to a 3-4 yr deal (if math is correct, their is 1.335M in space)
5. Use the room exception to sign Enes Kanter
6. Use Bird rights on Theis
7. Add Minimum and/or 2-Way Contracts (Waters could get either but I would think the latter).
The first 6 moves gets you 12 players so you'd likely have 2-3 minimum contract guys (as you know, they sometimes like to just keep 14 but not sure that's a hard/fast rule).
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 1, 2019 15:47:15 GMT -5
Boy we better get Vonleh now or I just don't see anyone else that could give us solid minutes. I eventually learned better than to question Danny, but I hope he has a plan for the front court. They need 2 bodies there and one needs to be good. No one on the team is allowed to be more than 3 inches taller than Danny Ainge. |
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Post by texs31 on Jul 1, 2019 15:52:53 GMT -5
Another question is, can we undo the Baynes deal? If we can retain our guys due to s&ts, and Phoenix took him as part of a salary dump, could we just negate that part of the trade before it became official? Would Phoenix, or did they really want him? There was a chance of retaining holds for everyone via more complicated (and costly?) S&Ts. Now, it's unlikely Boston will do that. Even though a Rozier/Walker S&T is being executed, that's for Charlotte's benefit (and Rozier's) not really ours (save the nominal asset we'll get in return). To execute we need to have space for Walker and that would include renouncing all FAs (except for Theis) and it requires the moving of Baynes' salary. I guess, technically, Rozier's rights were kept as well. Though I'm not sure it really matters from a math perspective. A rules one, perhaps. |
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Post by tizzle on Jul 1, 2019 15:57:23 GMT -5
Another question is, can we undo the Baynes deal? If we can retain our guys due to s&ts, and Phoenix took him as part of a salary dump, could we just negate that part of the trade before it became official? Would Phoenix, or did they really want him? There was a chance of retaining holds for everyone via more complicated (and costly?) S&Ts. Now, it's unlikely Boston will do that. Even though a Rozier/Walker S&T is being executed, that's for Charlotte's benefit (and Rozier's) not really ours (save the nominal asset we'll get in return). To execute we need to have space for Walker and that would include renouncing all FAs (except for Theis) and it requires the moving of Baynes' salary. I guess, technically, Rozier's rights were kept as well. Though I'm not sure it really matters from a math perspective. A rules one, perhaps. I didn't explain that, but I actually meant that as if the three way Sign & Trade mambo had been pulled off. If we had done that, and thus could have kept our holds on everybody, I wonder if it wouldn't make sense to try to undo the Baynes dump. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 1, 2019 16:15:05 GMT -5
What makes zero sense is the Nets taking a late first round pick to allow the Celtics to keep Horford and get a full midlevel exception. They are in the same division. This wasn’t a western conference team just trying to get an asset. The cost would have to be really high for the Nets to entertain the idea. Hence the Memphis pick is a guess as an absolute minimum. Now if you’re saying it makes no sense for the Celtics, I agree. But it makes no sense for either team to get together on something like this. I don't agree it was those types of smart moves that made the Nets good again. KD is out next year. Maybe it would have taken a little more like two late protected firsts or add a piece like Semi or something like that. Like if your crazy worried about allowing the Celtics to add a 33 year old Horford I wouldn't feel good about free agency if I were the Nets. That Grizz pick is one of the best Assets in the NBA right now given the route the Grizz have taken and the new draft rules. So we can agree to disagree on that being the minimum. This isn't the Nets helping the Celtics get a guy like Leonard. So I’m your opinion the Nets would help the Celtics just because? Also it wasn’t just Al, it was keeping cap holds on Morris and most importantly getting the full tax payer midlevel. Why would the Nets do they unless it really made sense for them? |
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 1, 2019 16:45:17 GMT -5
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 1, 2019 17:01:35 GMT -5
I remember Kemba when he was with UCONN. Awesome player. Only heard great things about him, which you can't say for every player. Will enjoy seeing him on the Celtics. He'll be a breath of fresh air, particularly compared to Irving.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 1, 2019 17:13:53 GMT -5
Another question is, can we undo the Baynes deal? If we can retain our guys due to s&ts, and Phoenix took him as part of a salary dump, could we just negate that part of the trade before it became official? Would Phoenix, or did they really want him? There was a chance of retaining holds for everyone via more complicated (and costly?) S&Ts. Now, it's unlikely Boston will do that. Even though a Rozier/Walker S&T is being executed, that's for Charlotte's benefit (and Rozier's) not really ours (save the nominal asset we'll get in return). To execute we need to have space for Walker and that would include renouncing all FAs (except for Theis) and it requires the moving of Baynes' salary. I guess, technically, Rozier's rights were kept as well. Though I'm not sure it really matters from a math perspective. A rules one, perhaps. They didn’t keep Roziers rights / they would have had to renounce had they signed Kemba outright. Remember nothing is actually official. This is the period where the Clippers kidnapped Jordan and got him to reneg on Dallas a couple years ago. I’m really curious what the Celtics are getting back... is it basically nothing just to do a solid for Terry and Charlotte or are they actually getting and asset? I suppose a second round pick from Charlotte isn’t nothing, but i hope it’s a minimum of that. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 1, 2019 17:17:31 GMT -5
I don't agree it was those types of smart moves that made the Nets good again. KD is out next year. Maybe it would have taken a little more like two late protected firsts or add a piece like Semi or something like that. Like if your crazy worried about allowing the Celtics to add a 33 year old Horford I wouldn't feel good about free agency if I were the Nets. That Grizz pick is one of the best Assets in the NBA right now given the route the Grizz have taken and the new draft rules. So we can agree to disagree on that being the minimum. This isn't the Nets helping the Celtics get a guy like Leonard. So I’m your opinion the Nets would help the Celtics just because? Also it wasn’t just Al, it was keeping cap holds on Morris and most importantly getting the full tax payer midlevel. Why would the Nets do they unless it really made sense for them? So one or two firsts is nothing and just because? Sure it needs to make sense for the Nets, but at minimum the Grizz pick is crazy. Let's not act like first round picks are nothing, they are gold at deadline even late ones. |
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burk
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Post by burk on Jul 1, 2019 17:50:32 GMT -5
I can’t keep up with all this cap stuff, so anyway any chance to add a Willie Cauley-Stein to the mix at C/PF? He plays D when engaged plus I am a UK fan and would like to see him in Boston! Again, I am cap ignorant so no idea if he can be had!
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Post by texs31 on Jul 1, 2019 18:36:43 GMT -5
Probably still too much cap space and/or exceptions for him to take the vet minimum.
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Post by texs31 on Jul 1, 2019 19:03:09 GMT -5
Looney gets 3/15 to return to GS. Thought he'd get more.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 1, 2019 19:36:30 GMT -5
So I’m your opinion the Nets would help the Celtics just because? Also it wasn’t just Al, it was keeping cap holds on Morris and most importantly getting the full tax payer midlevel. Why would the Nets do they unless it really made sense for them? So one or two firsts is nothing and just because? Sure it needs to make sense for the Nets, but at minimum the Grizz pick is crazy. Let's not act like first round picks are nothing, they are gold at deadline even late ones. To be honest, i misread your post to say conditional first which made me think likely a second. That being said, I don’t think a late first is even close to enough for the Nets. Two late firsts? Maybe, but if they are heavily protected for the Celts, I don’t see why the Nets would do that. It’s a moot point anyways. |
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Post by texs31 on Jul 1, 2019 20:00:22 GMT -5
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Post by Coreno on Jul 2, 2019 0:14:03 GMT -5
Boy we better get Vonleh now or I just don't see anyone else that could give us solid minutes. I eventually learned better than to question Danny, but I hope he has a plan for the front court. They need 2 bodies there and one needs to be good. No one on the team is allowed to be more than 3 inches taller than Danny Ainge. Who has to be the one to tell Tacko Fall? |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 2, 2019 3:56:10 GMT -5
So I thought of a trade with the Rockets for Capella. The salaries match and I think it's a trade that works for both teams.
Celtics trade-
Jalen Brown
Gordon Hayward
Celtics or Milwakee first round pick
Rockets trade-
Capella
PJ Tucker
Eric Gordon
-The Celtics have to add value because Brown is a RFA next year, versus Capella's 4 years remaining.
-Hayward's contract is offset a lot by the PJ Tucker and Eric Gordon's contracts the next one year for Gordon and 2 years for Tucker
-The Celtics add depth at the big position, the Rockets adds depth at the wing position (which both teams need)
-PJ Tucker is the new Morris this year and next year
-Eric Gordon is the starting 2 guard (SG) this year. Romeo Langford has a chance to take over in year 2 when Gordon leaves via free agency.
-Romeo Langford takes Brown's place in high ceiling 2 guard of the future
-The ceilings of Brown and Capella are offset with the trade
It's a trade that works and again, matches salaries almost identically (would work in the trade machine).
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