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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 19, 2019 4:19:35 GMT -5
Hate to clue you UMASS, the young guys thought they were HOF's last year after their "spectacular" playoff run. So the worst we can say about Kyrie is-
A) He was miserable and had a change of heart about staying in Boston after his experience here. He broke a promise, which happens all the time in sports. See Jon Lester example.
B) He made mistakes about talking about his teammates to the media, when his teammates were doing the same. See Marcus Morris.
C) He didn't play the game of basketball they YOU wanted him to
D) He thought the earth was flat.
And this makes him a d-bag? I mean, I guess? Sure. Whatever. Mind you, he didn't quit on the Celtics. He kept in contact with Danny Ainge up until he left. He just failed on a lot of fronts and made a lot of mistakes, but he's the worst human being on the planet. Blame him for cancer existing too.
However, does this mean he should be blamed for 99 percent of the problems last year which you keep circling back to?
Nope. This is the same team next year, unless Gordon Hayward bounces back and/or Tatum or Brown finds a new level. You're in for a wake up call if that doesn't happen. You won't have your favorite binky to blame if shit hits the fan either.
Point Guards are basically a dime a dozen in basketball. There's like 10-15 star point guards in the NBA. You can replace one with the other and be a good team. Unless your name is Irving Magic Johnson, a point guard isn't going to carry you to the Finals. That's what I realized last year, basically.
The Nets "constructed" what Danny Ainge was trying to do for years here. Recruit Kyrie and Durant to play for the Celtics. He acquired one, he came that close to the other. He took his shot with Kyrie and played it out. I don't blame him for it. The only thing you can really blame him for is not getting a true superstar next to Kyrie, to elevate the Celtics to a NBA Finals appearance. He attempted it with Hayward, but the Celtics are cursed and he broke his leg.
It's like Danny says "I don't regret a deal I made, I just move onto the next move."
It's funny, if Durant choses the Celtics in free agency 3 years ago, this is probably a completely different story. The Celtics probably would have been in multiple Finals appearances already and we all would be glad that Kyrie and Durant just signed long-term here this off-season. This might have been a dynasty if Durant came here. Instead, it played out this way without a top 5 player in the Celtics roster.
Anyways, I'm moving on. Maybe they'll be a day where you're not blaming Kyrie for everything, but I'm not going to let it bother me anymore.
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Post by voiceofreason on Jul 19, 2019 4:28:25 GMT -5
That makes 3 pages worth of Kyrie BS. How about everyone drops it and moves on. Move it to the throwdown area if you must. At this point who cares!! Kyrie is gone and the C's still have a very good team. How about we talk about Kanter and his 4 ORB a game or something relevant to the 2019-2020 C's.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 19, 2019 4:42:33 GMT -5
That makes 3 pages worth of Kyrie BS. How about everyone drops it and moves on. Move it to the throwdown area if you must. At this point who cares!! Kyrie is gone and the C's still have a very good team. How about we talk about Kanter and his 4 ORB a game or something relevant to the 2019-2020 C's. I mean, hopefully that's Robert Williams doing that and not Kanter. Kanter will be a backup, if Williams steps up like we all hope he does. Kanter is a funny dude. He took pictures of Celtics fans taping his name over Kyrie's number 11 jersey (I guess that's the jersey number he's going to wear). He also asked Kemba Walker in his press conference if he was going to pass the basketball. There's not much to talk about. The off-season is pretty much over. The Celtics are finding a 15th man on the roster at this point, and they might not make a decision on that until the end of their training camp in October. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 19, 2019 6:54:52 GMT -5
Here’s the thing with Kanter, don’t overlook him. He just turned 27 so he’s entering his Prime. He’s already one of the best rebounders in the league and low post scorers. He’s a good free throw shooter so him adding range is not something to write off. Plenty of guys like Horford and most recently Brook Lopez have added very good 3 point shots to their resumes. First thing I look to is free throw shooting for that. Defensively is where people look at him as a stiff, but that’s been changing a bit to the point he even played pretty solid defense last playoffs. People act like there’s no upside with this guy and he’s just some middling backup: That’s not the case at all.
It will be a good problem to have but there’s a chance we are wondering how the hell the Celtics can keep Kanter after this season because we can’t afford him.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 19, 2019 21:02:25 GMT -5
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 20, 2019 5:06:51 GMT -5
There’s a reason he fired his agent |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 20, 2019 5:16:18 GMT -5
Hypothetical:
Bradley Beal is entering a walk year and word is he’s probably going to get dealt. Would you trade Jaylen Brown and Gordon Hayward’s contract for Beal and say CJ miles? Miles makes the money work and is a “bad contract”. Tatum and Beal are boys so putting the two together could be nice. I’d want an assurance from Beal he’d resign.
Even with that, I question it from both sides. I’m a Jaylen believer but does his need for an extension for with a rebuild in Washington? Can they even really tear it down tho considering Walls 40m per that’s about to kick in. Which leads to why Hayward’s deal could be so valuable to them. Get Browns bird rights and you can extend him (money you couldn’t add otherwise) and get Hayward’s 32m you can trade or if he bounces back resign him.
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Post by texs31 on Jul 20, 2019 8:32:36 GMT -5
I won't address the Hayward inclusion bc I already mentioned my feelings on him as a salary match/dump.
As to the Brown for Beal piece - when someone first mentioned i was thinking it didnt make a ton of sense. Then I found out 2 things that, for some reason, I had forgotten or never realized.
1: Beal is 6'5". I always had it my head that he was smaller than that.
2. Beal is only 26. Again, just had it my head that he was older.
In that context, trading a young Brown for him makes more sense.
That being said, I wonder if Washington is going to try and hitch Wall to Beal. It's hard but their are teams that could do it. For example, I could see Pat Riley willing to take that on to pair Butler and Beal. They could send along a bunch of contract (including Winslow) as well as Herro. They wouldn't have any DPs to send but a willingness to relieve Washington of Walls contract could overcome that.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 20, 2019 12:42:22 GMT -5
There’s a reason he fired his agent Not really the story I've seen. They parted over him backing out of Spurs deal. We don't have all the details, but it almost seems like he thought he was going to get more. I had him pegged at full mid-level money. Given all the top free agents that seemed like his market if he wanted a long-term deal. I find it hard to believe that his agent would be like we can do better than three years 41 million. Not many guys who are average starter type players get over 50 million from teams using cap space. It's just not smart and Rich Paul is a lot of things, but he's not stupid. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 20, 2019 13:06:19 GMT -5
Here’s the thing with Kanter, don’t overlook him. He just turned 27 so he’s entering his Prime. He’s already one of the best rebounders in the league and low post scorers. He’s a good free throw shooter so him adding range is not something to write off. Plenty of guys like Horford and most recently Brook Lopez have added very good 3 point shots to their resumes. First thing I look to is free throw shooting for that. Defensively is where people look at him as a stiff, but that’s been changing a bit to the point he even played pretty solid defense last playoffs. People act like there’s no upside with this guy and he’s just some middling backup: That’s not the case at all. It will be a good problem to have but there’s a chance we are wondering how the hell the Celtics can keep Kanter after this season because we can’t afford him. I just have to say a few things. Overall I agree with a lot of what you said. It's a great signing for the money and there's a good chance he's a very solid starter. Yet your take is like best case on everything. I mean both Horford and Lopez set out to develop an outside shot. It took a lot of time and effort. It didn't just happen, like have you heard Kanter is working on that? Kanter has also been known as a black hole at times on offense. His effort level has been questioned for years. He does things like eat 20 cheeseburgers before games. It's funny to joke about, but no way that's good for an athlete. He plays hard, he's just a unique personality and person who does some interesting things. I certainly hope he's grown up and has changed. Yet I certainly wonder if we'll get anywhere near the effort level on D he showed in the playoffs next year while he was playing for a contract. He's a guy I want on a one year short term deal. Will be interesting to watch and see what we get over 82 games. The good thing is he'll be playing for a new deal in the playoffs again. I'll be happy if he's average frankly given his past struggles. Yet if you start Tatum and Kanter's horrible, that's just not a good fit |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 20, 2019 14:09:59 GMT -5
Here’s the thing with Kanter, don’t overlook him. He just turned 27 so he’s entering his Prime. He’s already one of the best rebounders in the league and low post scorers. He’s a good free throw shooter so him adding range is not something to write off. Plenty of guys like Horford and most recently Brook Lopez have added very good 3 point shots to their resumes. First thing I look to is free throw shooting for that. Defensively is where people look at him as a stiff, but that’s been changing a bit to the point he even played pretty solid defense last playoffs. People act like there’s no upside with this guy and he’s just some middling backup: That’s not the case at all. It will be a good problem to have but there’s a chance we are wondering how the hell the Celtics can keep Kanter after this season because we can’t afford him. I just have to say a few things. Overall I agree with a lot of what you said. It's a great signing for the money and there's a good chance he's a very solid starter. Yet your take is like best case on everything. I mean both Horford and Lopez set out to develop an outside shot. It took a lot of time and effort. It didn't just happen, like have you heard Kanter is working on that? Kanter has also been known as a black hole at times on offense. His effort level has been questioned for years. He does things like eat 20 cheeseburgers before games. It's funny to joke about, but no way that's good for an athlete. He plays hard, he's just a unique personality and person who does some interesting things. I certainly hope he's grown up and has changed. Yet I certainly wonder if we'll get anywhere near the effort level on D he showed in the playoffs next year while he was playing for a contract. He's a guy I want on a one year short term deal. Will be interesting to watch and see what we get over 82 games. The good thing is he'll be playing for a new deal in the playoffs again. I'll be happy if he's average frankly given his past struggles. Yet if you start Tatum and Kanter's horrible, that's just not a good fit I was simply trying to draw up a picture of Kanter to counter Pedro saying he’s “just a back up Center”. There’s a lot more there than that, but I agree it’s no given. It was more a he’s very talented and has shown the ability to produce. The question is what you laid out. Regarding the 3, actually read this today oddly enough: “While knowing much of Kanter’s value comes from his rebounding and low-post scoring, the Celtics believe the center can extend his shooting range out to the 3-point arc. Kanter agreed, saying he intends to add an outside jumper to his game this summer.” theathletic.com/1082759/2019/07/17/celtics-can-thank-old-friend-evan-turner-for-helping-to-recruit-enes-kanter/Idk if that’s a pay wall or not; but if not it’s a good article to check out. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 21, 2019 8:12:17 GMT -5
Brad Stevens mentioned that Kanter's shot from outside looked good when watching him at the press conference. Danny also said that Kanter and Kemba were plan A in the off-season. I believe all that if Danny had a good idea that Kyrie was gone to start the off-season.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 21, 2019 8:21:55 GMT -5
Brad Stevens mentioned that Kanter's shot from outside looked good when watching him at the press conference. Danny also said that Kanter and Kemba were plan A in the off-season. I believe all that if Danny had a good idea that Kyrie was gone to start the off-season. Danny said they were plan A “after the draft” which means after they knew Kyrie and Al were gone. |
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Post by texs31 on Jul 24, 2019 20:20:53 GMT -5
According to Keith Smith, C's have NOT yet executed the following deals:
Waters - 2 Way Deal
Green - Partially Guaranteed Deal
Fall - Camp Deal
The last piece, obviously, would lend credence to RJPs theory on Ainge's comments about signing Fall to a deal.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 25, 2019 7:51:25 GMT -5
Color me confused by not looking to add a legit PF, it makes zero sense given you now have 17 roster spots. We have two undersized PFs on the roster, a rookie and Semi who hasn't played much. Even if you plan on playing Tatum there a lot, you can use depth, it's a long season.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 25, 2019 8:01:24 GMT -5
Color me confused by not looking to add a legit PF, it makes zero sense given you now have 17 roster spots. We have two undersized PFs on the roster, a rookie and Semi who hasn't played much. Even if you plan on playing Tatum there a lot, you can use depth, it's a long season. You’ve assumed they haven’t looked to. There’s only so much money and they needed a Center so they went with Kanter as their first choice because they felt he’s a bargain at the Price. Now that left you with minimum contracts. You need to find both a worthy PF to take a roster spot and playing time and one who’s willing to take the vet minimum from you. Unfortunately, good players who will take the vet minimum for minimal playing time usually pick better teams than the Celtics. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 25, 2019 8:54:52 GMT -5
The last remaining large question of the off-season and the outlook of the future is the potential Jalen Brown extension.
Do you sign him?
How much is he worth?
Will the Celtics play this out and see how other teams value Brown next off-season?
You got until opening night to sign him or you let him go to restricted free agency. That's the deadline for a extension with Brown.
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Post by texs31 on Jul 25, 2019 9:03:46 GMT -5
History suggests they will let him go to RFA (I believe only Rondo has signed an extension off his Rookie deal).
The pending RFA market could be the story of October and then next offseason. With a watered down UFA market for 2020, teams may end up having to overpay RFAs as their will be money to spend (and teams want to spend it).
On Browns side, I dont see him willing to sign any extension less than the max.
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mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 3,048
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Post by mobaz on Jul 25, 2019 9:54:02 GMT -5
History suggests they will let him go to RFA (I believe only Rondo has signed an extension off his Rookie deal). The pending RFA market could be the story of October and then next offseason. With a watered down UFA market for 2020, teams may end up having to overpay RFAs as their will be money to spend (and teams want to spend it). On Browns side, I dont see him willing to sign any extension less than the max. Wait and see probably makes the most sense for both. His performance to date is close to where Avery Bradley was (stellar D, up and down offense with some stud performances) when he signed his deal but I imagine Jaylen believes his ceiling is much higher than that. And the celtics would be willing to pay him if he realizes it. RFA isn't a bad thing since they should be willing/able to match. |
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Post by texs31 on Jul 25, 2019 10:52:14 GMT -5
If you have a subscription to the Athletic, each of the local writers projected a rotation (w mpg and a sense of when the minutes will come - by qtr) for every team.
Edit - Cs version is Kings. He writes an extensive caveat on the exercise (not that we needed it) so take it with a grain of salt.
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Post by voiceofreason on Jul 25, 2019 12:21:33 GMT -5
Just want to say that I am looking forward to a very good battle out in LA. Both teams should be legit contenders, go Clippers!!
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 25, 2019 16:23:24 GMT -5
Boston also announced the signings of 2019 second-round pick Tremont Waters, Max Strus and Javonte Green. Waters and Strus inked two-way deals.
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Post by texs31 on Jul 25, 2019 16:37:45 GMT -5
Boston also announced the signings of 2019 second-round pick Tremont Waters, Max Strus and Javonte Green. Waters and Strus inked two-way deals. Fall too. Expectation is that it's the Exhibit 10. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 25, 2019 17:29:39 GMT -5
Max deal for Brown? I don't know. I kind of pause at that. You might be forced into doing that, but I wouldn't feel great about it. It would be borderline cringy to me, in fact.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 25, 2019 17:52:56 GMT -5
Color me confused by not looking to add a legit PF, it makes zero sense given you now have 17 roster spots. We have two undersized PFs on the roster, a rookie and Semi who hasn't played much. Even if you plan on playing Tatum there a lot, you can use depth, it's a long season. You’ve assumed they haven’t looked to. There’s only so much money and they needed a Center so they went with Kanter as their first choice because they felt he’s a bargain at the Price. Now that left you with minimum contracts. You need to find both a worthy PF to take a roster spot and playing time and one who’s willing to take the vet minimum from you. Unfortunately, good players who will take the vet minimum for minimal playing time usually pick better teams than the Celtics. We are talking about guys on the level of Green no? Danny basically said he will bring guys to camp to battle it out. That won't be a veteran as much as I'd like one. So we can't sign a young PF on Greens level? We have guard depth for days. |
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